Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    Saints game - give up a TD on 3rd and 22, Jets game give up a 3rd and 25 for a first down, and yesterday give up a 3rd and 30 to let Steelers get 1 foot on fourth to convert. What is up with this?

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    Yeah , that is just mind boggling.  I think next time they will be covering the screen pass better.  (except that's what we said after the dolphins game...)

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?


    They had everyone too far back, and didn't cover the screen at all. I would be more worried about being able to stop the run moving forward...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    It's not really mind boggling, it hasn't been mind boggling for the past five years, with no defensive tackles up front, opposing teams can rip off a 4-5 yard run, use another play to get a little closer and with light defensive tackles they can push us around for the remaining 5 inches they need.

    We were great on third downs in the beginning of the season with a healthy set of defensive tackles, we were great on defense all around.  

    The offense has to keep up yesterday's pace and we have to find a solution at DT if we're going to go deep in the playoffs... and most importantly we need to stay healthy, this is getting ridiculous.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    Give it time.  They're working on a 3-4 with Sopoaga at NT AND Chr. Jones and Vellano at ends.  Nink and Cha. Jones were more OLBs yesterday.  It's a new scheme, with a new player in the mix, so you have to give it some time, 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    After the Steelers converted the 3rd and 30 my wife asked me to please watch my language in the house...something about you are not in a bar for ctiss sakes....

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    It's not really mind boggling, it hasn't been mind boggling for the past five years, with no defensive tackles up front, opposing teams can rip off a 4-5 yard run, use another play to get a little closer and with light defensive tackles they can push us around for the remaining 5 inches they need.

    We were great on third downs in the beginning of the season with a healthy set of defensive tackles, we were great on defense all around.  

    The offense has to keep up yesterday's pace and we have to find a solution at DT if we're going to go deep in the playoffs... and most importantly we need to stay healthy, this is getting ridiculous.

     




    +1000. When the eternal optimists on this board are worried, there is probably pretty good reason to worry. Our D-line needs help ASAP. Sopoaga isn't enough by himself. Yesterday's game was the most worrying game of the season so far, at least for me.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

     

    Almost every team gives up a 3rd or 4th and long once in a game. It is irritating and sticks in your mind but this years team is much less prone to this than any other Pats team since 2008 or so.

    The real problem is the YPC and short situations.

    Yesterday I missed my first game of the season for busines reasons, how did Sopo do? 

    I wonder if for short yardage converting someone like Svitek to DT might not be a bad idea. Is it possible or is the skillset too different?

    If the offense is really on for the rest of the season the YPC might not be as big a deal as other team will have to abandon the run. As far as the playoffs go hopefully the the PAts get good matchups.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    It's not really mind boggling, it hasn't been mind boggling for the past five years, with no defensive tackles up front, opposing teams can rip off a 4-5 yard run, use another play to get a little closer and with light defensive tackles they can push us around for the remaining 5 inches they need.

    We were great on third downs in the beginning of the season with a healthy set of defensive tackles, we were great on defense all around.  

    The offense has to keep up yesterday's pace and we have to find a solution at DT if we're going to go deep in the playoffs... and most importantly we need to stay healthy, this is getting ridiculous.

     



    Wozzy, where is Armstead and in your opinion can he help this year with D Line play?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to patsbandwagonsince76's comment:

     

    Almost every team gives up a 3rd or 4th and long every game. It is irritating and sticks in your mind but this years team is much less prone to this than any other Pats team since 2008 or so.

    The real problem is the YPC and short situations.

    Yesterday I missed my first game of the season for busines reasons, how did Sopo do? 

    I wonder if for short yardage converting someone like Svitek to DT might not be a bad idea. Is it possible or is the skillset too different?

    If the offense is really on for the rest of the season the YPC might not be as big a deal as other team will have to abandon the run. As far as the playoffs go hopefully the the PAts get good matchups.

     

     




    YPC is still very important because the other team can use it to control the clock and keep the game close until the very end. The best way to beat a good offense is to keep it off the field. Believe me, we all have PhD's in that, given our experience over the last few years in playoff football.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    After the Steelers converted the 3rd and 30 my wife asked me to please watch my language in the house...something about you are not in a bar for ctiss sakes....



    LOL... I had to apologize to the guy sitting in front of me he had his young kid with him and though he didn't say anything I'm sure he didn't appreciate my "you have got to be #$%%## kidding me".

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to neinmd's comment:

     

    +1000. When the eternal optimists on this board are worried, there is probably pretty good reason to worry. Our D-line needs help ASAP. Sopoaga isn't enough by himself. Yesterday's game was the most worrying game of the season so far, at least for me.

    lol

    Is it that I'm an "eternal optimist," or is it that we've been the best team in the NFL for over a decade now and I'm just a realist... I say the latter and our record is my proof.

    But yeah, we need to get bigger upfront or our linebackers will wear down.  

    I like the use of the 3/4 again but wonder why we couldn't have utilized it more often when Wilfork and Kelly were here and healthy so we could have used them less, possibly saving them from wear and tear?  

    For people who say I'm a homer who never criticizes BB and loves guzzling koolaid please explain why I've been screaming for more 3/4 for years...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to neinmd's comment:

     

    +1000. When the eternal optimists on this board are worried, there is probably pretty good reason to worry. Our D-line needs help ASAP. Sopoaga isn't enough by himself. Yesterday's game was the most worrying game of the season so far, at least for me.

    lol

    Is it that I'm an "eternal optimist," or is it that we've been the best team in the NFL for over a decade now and I'm just a realist... I say the latter and our record is my proof.

    But yeah, we need to get bigger upfront or our linebackers will wear down.  

    I like the use of the 3/4 again but wonder why we couldn't have utilized it more often when Wilfork and Kelly were here and healthy so we could have used them less, possibly saving them from wear and tear?  

    For people who say I'm a homer who never criticizes BB and loves guzzling koolaid please explain why I've been screaming for more 3/4 for years...




    I characterize myself as an eternal optimist and am a bit worried. Sorry, shouldn't have included you in that category. Just because someone is optimistic about the future does not mean that person isn't realistic about the current situation.

    Part of my urgency in getting the D-line issue resolved quickly is that for the first time in many years, I think we have a pass defense and a running game capable of going deep into the playoffs. The passing game is going to be better with each game. Our run defense is the Achilles' heel and needs to get fixed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Give it time.  They're working on a 3-4 with Sopoaga at NT AND Chr. Jones and Vellano at ends.  Nink and Cha. Jones were more OLBs yesterday.  It's a new scheme, with a new player in the mix, so you have to give it some time, 

     




    +1.  This bye-week comes at a great time.  Hopefully, the coaches and players can use the extra time to make some necessary adjustments.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    I don't know, I think the current d-line is playing about the same as the VW/TK version. Better in terms of pressure. About the same against the run. The only teams they held under 100 yards all year were Tampa and Atlanta, a couple of bottom feeders where they got big leads and they had to throw. Total yards against are about the same.

    Pittsburgh had two carries for 55 yards (Dwyer for 30 and Bell for 25) and gained 53 yards on the other 18 carries (2.9 ypc). 

    Don't let your lying eyes deceive you. VW was a shell of his former self. Kelly was playing well, but it's not like he was terrorizing QBs.  Jones has replaced him nicely.

    I maintain that the key for this team is the health of Talib. If he comes back at the level he was at when he went down, this defense will be right back to where it was. Less depth, but look around the league, guys are dropping like flies.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know, I think the current d-line is playing about the same as the VW/TK version. Better in terms of pressure. About the same against the run. The only teams they held under 100 yards all year were Tampa and Atlanta, a couple of bottom feeders where they got big leads and they had to throw. Total yards against are about the same.

    Pittsburgh had two carries for 55 yards (Dwyer for 30 and Bell for 25) and gained 53 yards on the other 18 carries (2.9 ypc). 

    Don't let your lying eyes deceive you. VW was a shell of his former self. Kelly was playing well, but it's not like he was terrorizing QBs.  Jones has replaced him nicely.

    I maintain that the key for this team is the health of Talib. If he comes back at the level he was at when he went down, this defense will be right back to where it was. Less depth, but look around the league, guys are dropping like flies.



    There's no question, Talib being on the field can influence the entire D.  Hopefully, once he's back, he can avoid any further injuries.  I remember last year in the Ravens' playoff game...it seemed the whole game changed, once he went down.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    After the Steelers converted the 3rd and 30 my wife asked me to please watch my language in the house...something about you are not in a bar for ctiss sakes....



    LOL... I had to apologize to the guy sitting in front of me he had his young kid with him and though he didn't say anything I'm sure he didn't appreciate my "you have got to be #$%%## kidding me".




    Yeah, that';s a tough one. But if I'm cncerned about my young one - I don't bring em to the game or a bar to watch the game!

    The first time my buddy and I brought his young son to a game we explained to him that what he would hear and see might be humorous and seem cool - it wasn't. The kid spent the whole game laughing at people and asking his Dad what would happen if he used that word in school. At one point he yelled at this really large man to watch his language, there's a kid over here! I thought I was going to pee myself. About 15 guys in our section starting treating him like gold. They brought him soda, nachos and kept high fiving him on every positive play - The boy had an absolutely terrific time and couldn't wait to go next week.

      I wouldn't feel bad - we have all lost our cool at some point - being ridiculous about losing our cool is another thing. At least you realized that you goofed!  I give you credit for apologizing before being called out for it!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_483130. Show user_483130's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know, I think the current d-line is playing about the same as the VW/TK version. Better in terms of pressure. About the same against the run. The only teams they held under 100 yards all year were Tampa and Atlanta, a couple of bottom feeders where they got big leads and they had to throw. Total yards against are about the same.

    Pittsburgh had two carries for 55 yards (Dwyer for 30 and Bell for 25) and gained 53 yards on the other 18 carries (2.9 ypc). 

    Don't let your lying eyes deceive you. VW was a shell of his former self. Kelly was playing well, but it's not like he was terrorizing QBs.  Jones has replaced him nicely.

    I maintain that the key for this team is the health of Talib. If he comes back at the level he was at when he went down, this defense will be right back to where it was. Less depth, but look around the league, guys are dropping like flies.



    I hope you right on VW and TK and agree on Talib. Unfortunately, I don't see Talib - even if he does come back - playing through the entire season. Hammy last year and hip this year, is this guy the new RAS -I-D?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to user_483130's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    .....

    Don't let your lying eyes deceive you. VW was a shell of his former self. Kelly was playing well, but it's not like he was terrorizing QBs.  Jones has replaced him nicely.

    I maintain that the key for this team is the health of Talib. If he comes back at the level he was at when he went down, this defense will be right back to where it was. Less depth, but look around the league, guys are dropping like flies.



    I hope you right on VW and TK and agree on Talib. Unfortunately, I don't see Talib - even if he does come back - playing through the entire season. Hammy last year and hip this year, is this guy the new RAS -I-D?



    He's played 11, 13 and 10 games his past three years and will likely be in the same area this year. Like Gronk, I just want him to be healthy in January.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know, I think the current d-line is playing about the same as the VW/TK version. Better in terms of pressure. About the same against the run. The only teams they held under 100 yards all year were Tampa and Atlanta, a couple of bottom feeders where they got big leads and they had to throw. Total yards against are about the same.

    Pittsburgh had two carries for 55 yards (Dwyer for 30 and Bell for 25) and gained 53 yards on the other 18 carries (2.9 ypc). 

    Don't let your lying eyes deceive you. VW was a shell of his former self. Kelly was playing well, but it's not like he was terrorizing QBs.  Jones has replaced him nicely.

    I maintain that the key for this team is the health of Talib. If he comes back at the level he was at when he went down, this defense will be right back to where it was. Less depth, but look around the league, guys are dropping like flies.



    It's going to be a cumulative effect, team are slowly waking up to the realization they can run on us, our linebackers are moving closer and closer to the line to make up for the runs up our belly, over time taking on larger blockers like guards instead of fullbacks will beat down Hightower and Spikes in the middle and we're becoming more susceptible to the pass because we're relying more on our linebackers to stop the run and our pass rush is taking longer to get to the QB.

    Before we could rush four guys and get to the QB, now we have to commit more pass rushers, we're sending the house, a very well balanced playoff caliber QB and team will be able to exploit this, unless our offense can win a shootout this is a bad thing and since we know defense wins championships we need to improve in the middle.  We're keeping pace with our sacks which was never great but it's because we're sending more people, this will be feast or famine.  Big powerful O Lines will be our kryptonite.

    Our defense has gone from top three, maybe the best in the NFL to 8th and trending downward... it starts upfront.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    If you watched that 3rd and 30 yesterday, harmon was in position to make a tackle well short of the first down. The rb in open space just put a nice move on him and ran for another 15 yards. The pats seemed to be in the wrong formation, did it have anything to do with Hightower calling the play?...see below.

    did anyone see any major drop off once Gregory went out? He seemed to be calling the plays and when he went down, they shifted that responsibility back to Hightower. I don't think Hightower is ready for this yet. If Gregory is out any extended time, I hope they give the helmet to mccourty. 

    the trade deadline has come and gone and there aren't any more decent wide bodies out there to bring in. we will have to rely on soap, jones, vellano, forston, francis(ps) And maybe a long shot in armstead. The Francis kid on the ps who was snatched from the dolphins is supposed to be pretty good. He has decent size also. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know, I think the current d-line is playing about the same as the VW/TK version. Better in terms of pressure. About the same against the run. The only teams they held under 100 yards all year were Tampa and Atlanta, a couple of bottom feeders where they got big leads and they had to throw. Total yards against are about the same.

    Pittsburgh had two carries for 55 yards (Dwyer for 30 and Bell for 25) and gained 53 yards on the other 18 carries (2.9 ypc). 

    Don't let your lying eyes deceive you. VW was a shell of his former self. Kelly was playing well, but it's not like he was terrorizing QBs.  Jones has replaced him nicely.

    I maintain that the key for this team is the health of Talib. If he comes back at the level he was at when he went down, this defense will be right back to where it was. Less depth, but look around the league, guys are dropping like flies.



    correcto mundo

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to tanbass's comment:


    They had everyone too far back, and didn't cover the screen at all. I would be more worried about being able to stop the run moving forward...




    i think harmon was in position but he got wrong footed

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    Enough of this 34 talk, we have 3 DTs and a potential 4th in Armstead, we don't have enough for a 34. The big guys would have to play every snap in a 34 and would wear themselves out.

     
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