Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

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    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Yeah, the third and forever play was different as would be most plays in a pass-focused sub type defense.  I'm talking more about what I'm seeing in "base" formations (knowing full well that BB varies his so-called base formations a lot too). 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The loss in base formation is certain. NE can't conrol the run. 

     

    I'm highly skeptical that NE has lost much in terms of naked pass rush. 

    Vince doesn't command a double team on most passing plays. Even when he was healthy. He just doesn't have that speed. 

    They've lost whatever pass rush he gave them over what Sopoaga or another alternative gives them. It is something ... but not a lot .. in my opinion of course. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's fair to say we actually see a bit more penetration on pass plays from Jones and Vellano, who do seem to have a bit more quickness than Vince does now.   That's how they're getting those sacks.  I do think though what Wozzy maybe is seeing is that Jones and Vellano can't overpower interior linemen in the pass rush like Wilfork could.  Not that Wilfork actually gets to the QB all that much, but I do see two guys pick him up a lot on pass plays and that means the ends are often single teamed unless the guard can get off Wilfork after hitting him and slide over to help out the tackle.  At least in my opinion, I don't think Wilfork himself drives the linemen into the QB all that much, but I do think he will be blocked by the guard and center, leaving the edge rusher one-on-one with the tackle. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Yeah, the third and forever play was different as would be most plays in a pass-focused sub type defense.  I'm talking more about what I'm seeing in "base" formations (knowing full well that BB varies his so-called base formations a lot too). 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The loss in base formation is certain. NE can't conrol the run. 

     

    I'm highly skeptical that NE has lost much in terms of naked pass rush. 

    Vince doesn't command a double team on most passing plays. Even when he was healthy. He just doesn't have that speed. 

    They've lost whatever pass rush he gave them over what Sopoaga or another alternative gives them. It is something ... but not a lot .. in my opinion of course. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's fair to say we actually see a bit more penetration on pass plays from Jones and Vellano, who do seem to have a bit more quickness than Vince does now.   That's how they're getting those sacks.  I do think though what Wozzy maybe is seeing is that Jones and Vellano can't overpower interior linemen in the pass rush like Wilfork could.  Not that Wilfork actually gets to the QB all that much, but I do see two guys pick him up a lot on pass plays and that means the ends are often single teamed unless the guard can get off Wilfork after hitting him and slide over to help out the tackle.  At least in my opinion, I don't think Wilfork himself drives the linemen into the QB all that much, but I do think he will be blocked by the guard and center, leaving the edge rusher one-on-one with the tackle. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That is sort of what I see as well. 

    Jones and Vellano have looked pretty sharp out there for a couple of no-account players. 

    I certainly have seen Fork draw a double team, but I've also seen him left alone quite a bit. I think it depends on how large the opposing interior line is ... at least from a guess. 

    I've grown pretty comfortable with the idea of missing Vince this season. I actually was surprised (And these things can fool you) by how solid Sopoaga looked in limited reps last week as a replacement as well. 

    I think, going down the road, the sheer mass of NE's LBer corps, and the addition of Sopoaga, will keep this defense effective against the run. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Yeah, the third and forever play was different as would be most plays in a pass-focused sub type defense.  I'm talking more about what I'm seeing in "base" formations (knowing full well that BB varies his so-called base formations a lot too). 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The loss in base formation is certain. NE can't conrol the run. 

     

    I'm highly skeptical that NE has lost much in terms of naked pass rush. 

    Vince doesn't command a double team on most passing plays. Even when he was healthy. He just doesn't have that speed. 

    They've lost whatever pass rush he gave them over what Sopoaga or another alternative gives them. It is something ... but not a lot .. in my opinion of course. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it's fair to say we actually see a bit more penetration on pass plays from Jones and Vellano, who do seem to have a bit more quickness than Vince does now.   That's how they're getting those sacks.  I do think though what Wozzy maybe is seeing is that Jones and Vellano can't overpower interior linemen in the pass rush like Wilfork could.  Not that Wilfork actually gets to the QB all that much, but I do see two guys pick him up a lot on pass plays and that means the ends are often single teamed unless the guard can get off Wilfork after hitting him and slide over to help out the tackle.  At least in my opinion, I don't think Wilfork himself drives the linemen into the QB all that much, but I do think he will be blocked by the guard and center, leaving the edge rusher one-on-one with the tackle. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That is sort of what I see as well. 

    Jones and Vellano have looked pretty sharp out there for a couple of no-account players. 

    I certainly have seen Fork draw a double team, but I've also seen him left alone quite a bit. I think it depends on how large the opposing interior line is ... at least from a guess. 

    I've grown pretty comfortable with the idea of missing Vince this season. I actually was surprised (And these things can fool you) by how solid Sopoaga looked in limited reps last week as a replacement as well. 

    I think, going down the road, the sheer mass of NE's LBer corps, and the addition of Sopoaga, will keep this defense effective against the run. 

    [/QUOTE]

    You know I was just looking at a few plays from a Jets game last year and it surprised me how much the single-teamed Wilfork.  Looking at plays earlier this season, Wilfork seemed double teamed a lot, but at least for a portion of that one game last year, he was single teamed most of the time (didn't watch the whole game, so maybe the Jets changed it up).  Anyway, it's fun to actually watch the film and just focus on line play.  That's a part of the game that is hard to follow on TV, but it's just fascinating.  I like it just as much as the so-called "skill" game.

    I know you've played and coached on the line (defense?).  Wondering about your thoughts on Mankins.  I really never played at a high level so I don't claim to be any expert on technique.  But one thing I'm seeing on the film is just how often Mankins makes a good block on his first guy and then slides off and hits a second guy, either a LB or often the guy Solder is blocking.  Seems like Connolly and Wendell are often playing as a tandem.  Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Wy cant D stop a 3rd and forever?

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's not really mind boggling, it hasn't been mind boggling for the past five years, with no defensive tackles up front, opposing teams can rip off a 4-5 yard run, use another play to get a little closer and with light defensive tackles they can push us around for the remaining 5 inches they need.

    We were great on third downs in the beginning of the season with a healthy set of defensive tackles, we were great on defense all around.  

    The offense has to keep up yesterday's pace and we have to find a solution at DT if we're going to go deep in the playoffs... and most importantly we need to stay healthy, this is getting ridiculous.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This Rusty^... I think your 98th profile had been blocked at this point though...

     
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