Ya know what's nice?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:


    True, if one single guy could change a defense he'd have to be a very very special/impact type of guy...Talib is not that. However do you think it takes four drafts, four free agency periods and four off seasons to improve your defense? We almost entirely rebuilt this roster back in the early dynasty years between our first and second super bowl - those two teams were vastly different in personel...it didn't take 4 years. You see teams change dramatically in one off season - you get a team that basically stinks one year and then they add a couple of pieces and they are in the playoffs. Look at Washington, they add a QB and suddenly they are on the brink of the playoffs.




    QB is a unique position so I'm not sure if the analogy applies to a defense.  In addition I think NE had to replace a lot more guys than some teams do that appear to have quick turnarounds.  Think about it.  Wilfork is the only guy on this team that was on the 2007 team that went 16-0 on the defensive side of the ball.  Belichick had to literally replace the entire defense without the benefit of the highest draft picks because we haven't stopped winning.

    Could it have been done faster?  In theory maybe.  I see you alluded to what he did between 2001 and 2003 and that was a pretty remarkable run in terms of the draft and FA acquisitions that were made.  But that is an impossibly high standard imo.  There were a lot of things that had to go right for that to work.  I don't think we approached it any differently this time, it just took longer because not every move works out.  Hell you could argue as good as BB is even he was due for some mean reversion.  You can't be almost 100% accurate forever.  I really think what Belichick has done as GM here is severely underrated by a lot of fans (although I will give you credit for acknowledging what was done between our 1st and 2nd SBs since even that is often glossed over since it was a while ago in football terms).



    I think he's done a good job, and I think he is the best coach in the league as well. I can point out another team that turned it around in one off season...us in 1995. Parcells hired Belichick as a defensive secondary coach. We went out and signed Wille Clay, drafted Bruschi and Lawyer Milloy. We also added this back up linebacker from Bufallo (can't remember his name). We also drafted Glenn and signed Shawn Jefferson.

    In one off season we fixed our secondary and added speed and pass rushing ability to our linebacker core - we also added speed and play making ability to the wideout spot. The team went from being 6 and 10, to the Super Bowl.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    I actually enjoy watching pats punt since its an opportunity to watch pats D make plays... How twisted is that...?




    I found myself doing the same thing.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     

    But when you allocate 1/6 of your cap to one player on one side of the ball, it's hard to distribute the money on defense.



    Most teams with a decent QB are within a few million of Brady's cap hit number. So that is not a factor. And BB has had the good fortune to not be looking for the holy grail on draft day for over a decade.

    Wilfork and Mankins together are hitting the cap about as hard as Brady.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    I actually enjoy watching pats punt since its an opportunity to watch pats D make plays... How twisted is that...?




    I found myself doing the same thing.




    That was the whole point of the thread. It IS nice to be excited when the D takes the field, like we used to be.

     

    But those who still want to insist last year's crappy D was good can't tune into the feel good vibe and just want to rehash the same old homer nonsense.

    I don't know about you, but the feeling I got when the D took the field the last few years was one of foreboding. I'm glad to be excited about it again.

    Watching the offense was like watching the great NE Patriots led by Tom Brady, then you were watching the Oakland Raiders or some other lame team when the D got on the field.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    Exactly. The QB's used to sit there and ask...how do you want me to punch you in the face? Do you want me to throw it over your head or just between the safeties? Maybe I can just methodically pass between your linebackers for 7-10 yards a pop till we get to the endzone? Do you mind if I just sit here happy behind the line and then end up just throwing it to one of the two guys I have open with no defender within 20 yards? I'll tell you what - I have all day here behind the line to think this through, so I'll figure it out by myself.

    It looked different Monday night and it has been building for a few weeks, but Monday at least it was against a decent offense. I will say Houston peed their pants and Schaub played like garbage, but hopefully that was more to do with us. I hope this is not a mirage, but I'm starting to feel more confident in this defense than I have in three years. Chung has met his rightfull place on the bench and there are some guys in the secondary that look like real football players. Who knows?



    Embarrassing.  You're a joke.  The pats lead the nfl in turnovers created 3 years in a row.

     

    There is a strategy involved.  Now, bb can do more with more continuity, experience, depth and added talent.

     

    The fact you two dumbos thought that could be cultivated overnighis embarrassing for you.  



    Rusty, you are wrong. This defense came together once Talib could play tight press coverage with out S help, and McCourty could play S and keep plays in front of him, and make tackles. That all came to pass just a few games ago, which is literally over night. This in turn allowed more S QB pressure and sending the LB's to rush the passer more frequently...

    Before the Talib/McCourty switch, BB had his hands tied as to what he could do on defense.

    This defense is not a finished product and more talent is needed. Interior DLman must be drafted and LB depth should also be on deck.




    You hit the nail right smack dab on the head.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hang3xc. Show hang3xc's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    So the D was catastrophic in the playoffs last year?

    I agree that the Defense looks much better and they can even be called a potent force at this point, but let's not exaggerate on how 'poor' our defense was last year.




    I would call a D that could't get off the field in the SB to save their life, couldn't get a single turnover, took a mind-numbingly stupid 12 man penalty to allow 7 points, took an equally mind-numbingly stupid offsides penalty at a crucial juncture and folded like a broken chinese lawn chair in the last minutes - pretty much a catastrophe. And the rest of the objective world out there thinks the same.

     



    Umm, no they don't.  A closely contested well played lower scoring sb game doesn't mean only ne's d was a catastrophe.  Twenty million at qb tossed the worst int of his career to hand momentum back in the 4th.  Eli outplayed brady.

     

    That is a catastrophe since eli can't hold brady's jock.




    Giants O held the ball for almost 40 minutes. That didn't give Brady a whole lot of time to work and establish ANY rythym... and he still almost pulled it off

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    I've been down on our defense for long while now...young or not, I just wasn't too happy with the development (or lackthereof) with a lot of the players.  I tend to share's Babe's outlook on the defense's failures to get off the field when they needed to.

     

    HOWEVER...the offense did some pretty stupid stuff as Rusty mentioned above and overall...the team did NOT play complimentary football when they needed to ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BALL.

     

    If you don't have guys making the plays they are supposed to make on both sides of the ball at critical times...you're going to end up on the short end of the stick more times than not.  The difference between a couple plays here or there IS THE DIFFERENCE between winning and losing when all things essentially being equal. 

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to hang3xc's comment:

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    So the D was catastrophic in the playoffs last year?

    I agree that the Defense looks much better and they can even be called a potent force at this point, but let's not exaggerate on how 'poor' our defense was last year.




    I would call a D that could't get off the field in the SB to save their life, couldn't get a single turnover, took a mind-numbingly stupid 12 man penalty to allow 7 points, took an equally mind-numbingly stupid offsides penalty at a crucial juncture and folded like a broken chinese lawn chair in the last minutes - pretty much a catastrophe. And the rest of the objective world out there thinks the same.

     



    Umm, no they don't.  A closely contested well played lower scoring sb game doesn't mean only ne's d was a catastrophe.  Twenty million at qb tossed the worst int of his career to hand momentum back in the 4th.  Eli outplayed brady.

     

    That is a catastrophe since eli can't hold brady's jock.




    Giants O held the ball for almost 40 minutes. That didn't give Brady a whole lot of time to work and establish ANY rythym... and he still almost pulled it off




    Reason?

    1. Safety

    2. INT

    3. Welker drop

    That's at least 5 minutes alone without any of those 3 drives with minutes added on if a first down was earned.

    Do the math.

     




    I'll counter with...

     

    1. 12 man penalty - 7 points!

    2. Ninco offside on crucial late 3rd down stop!

    3. No turnovers from D!

    4. D can't get off field to save their life, offense gets a fraction of the drives they had in other SBs!

    5. Giants hit on 75% of their passes!

    6. Giants average over 4 ypc for 100+ yards!

    7. D collapses on game winning drive!

     

    Do the math junior.

     

    You lose yet again. LMAO@U

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Watching the other team's offense go to the line on a passing down and seeing some trepidation in their face instead of a smile or watching them licking their chops.

    It's been too long since we could actually feel good about the D being on the field and have a sense that they won't only get a stop, but might well just dig the hole a bit deeper for the bad guys. Used to be we just worried whether the damage would be catastrophic or barely manageable.

     

    It's nice to have that feeling back. I just hope it's for real.




    Yes. The D is giving you the feeling that they can make plays. Having upped the pass rush (not the least of it through blitzes) and having a more aggressive secondary and better play at each spot in the secondary... AND being tough against the run including a whole lot of big stops on thrid and fourth downs.... Yes.. if they can stey healthy and keep getting better as a group this could be the core of a revived SB D.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     



    NE had leads of 17-9, 17-12 and 17-15.  Since NE scored their 3rd qtr TD, they collapsed on offense, never to put up another point. Not even a FG. That is beyond unnaceptable. That's like me not selling anything whatsoever in the last 2 months of a qtr. I'd be fired.  Yet, you praise Brady and his failures. Clearly, it was his WORST SB performance. His WORST.

    The fact is, the Pats offense fell asleep did nothing whatsoever in the last 1/4 and a half.  You can't collapse in a low scoring game in an offensive era when your QB makes 20 million bucks.




    Your world class denseness continues. They scored more points per possession than they did in other winning SBs junior. Coughlin had his boys work over that can't get off the field defense just like the Steelers did and kept Brady off the field to give him a shot at the end. It worked perfectly as the D folded. LEARN THE GAME.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from In_BB_We_Trust. Show In_BB_We_Trust's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     



    NE had leads of 17-9, 17-12 and 17-15.  Since NE scored their 3rd qtr TD, they collapsed on offense, never to put up another point. Not even a FG. That is beyond unnaceptable. That's like me not selling anything whatsoever in the last 2 months of a qtr. I'd be fired.  Yet, you praise Brady and his failures. Clearly, it was his WORST SB performance. His WORST.

    The fact is, the Pats offense fell asleep did nothing whatsoever in the last 1/4 and a half.  You can't collapse in a low scoring game in an offensive era when your QB makes 20 million bucks.




    Your world class denseness continues. They scored more points per possession than they did in other winning SBs junior. Coughlin had his boys work over that can't get off the field defense just like the Steelers did and kept Brady off the field to give him a shot at the end. It worked perfectly as the D folded. LEARN THE GAME.



    i have to agree with rusty on this one. the offense packed it in.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from In_BB_We_Trust. Show In_BB_We_Trust's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    for a lack of better words, basically.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to In_BB_We_Trust's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     



    NE had leads of 17-9, 17-12 and 17-15.  Since NE scored their 3rd qtr TD, they collapsed on offense, never to put up another point. Not even a FG. That is beyond unnaceptable. That's like me not selling anything whatsoever in the last 2 months of a qtr. I'd be fired.  Yet, you praise Brady and his failures. Clearly, it was his WORST SB performance. His WORST.

    The fact is, the Pats offense fell asleep did nothing whatsoever in the last 1/4 and a half.  You can't collapse in a low scoring game in an offensive era when your QB makes 20 million bucks.




    Your world class denseness continues. They scored more points per possession than they did in other winning SBs junior. Coughlin had his boys work over that can't get off the field defense just like the Steelers did and kept Brady off the field to give him a shot at the end. It worked perfectly as the D folded. LEARN THE GAME.



    i have to agree with rusty on this one. the offense packed it in.




    Nice of you to share your imaginings, but since you have no evidence whatsoever to present in support of such a thing, I doubt many will simply take your word for it. We tend to prefer facts around here rather than spin.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    How about this, babe and Neal, you're both right...!

    Brady and obie were off AND Chung and co.  failed to stop the last drive.  Put MCC in place of Chung and the pass to manningham gets swatted like a harmless fly.

    Not to mention other improvements but close games come down to a few plays here and there and a couple players can be the difference w/l...

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    How about this, babe and Neal, you're both right...!

    Brady and obie were off AND Chung and co.  failed to stop the last drive.  Put MCC in place of Chung and the pass to manningham gets swatted like a harmless fly.

    Not to mention other improvements but close games come down to a few plays here and there and a couple players can be the difference w/l...

     



    NO. I'm not going to sit by and see Brady maligned by far too many people who just don't understand the game when he had a good SB.

     

    Brady's SB performance projects for a season to....

     

    91 PR, 4,416 yards with 32 TDs and 16 INTs. ANY NFL team would count that as a very good season. And Brady managed that despite his greatest weapon, Gronk, being nearly useless and the D giving him only a fraction of the normal number of possessions.

    Enough of this BS!

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    How about this, babe and Neal, you're both right...!

    Brady and obie were off AND Chung and co.  failed to stop the last drive.  Put MCC in place of Chung and the pass to manningham gets swatted like a harmless fly.

    Not to mention other improvements but close games come down to a few plays here and there and a couple players can be the difference w/l...

     



    NO. I'm not going to sit by and see Brady maligned by far too many people who just don't understand the game when he had a good SB.

     

    Brady's SB performance projects for a season to....

     

    91 PR, 4,416 yards with 32 TDs and 16 INTs. ANY NFL team would count that as a very good season. And Brady managed that despite his greatest weapon, Gronk, being nearly useless and the D giving him only a fraction of the normal number of possessions.

    Enough of this BS!

     

     



    Thanks for posting that and I am the biggest Brady fan, and know exactly what he brings to this team.  I also know that O'Brien frustrated Brady and stressed him out.  With mcd in the booth and obie as a lame duck OC was a recipe for disaster . They came close to pulling it off but it wasn't  enough considering the fortunate play of jints runningbacks having fumbles bounce back to them and Chung failing to break up Elis wobbling rainbow.

    the stats you posted show Brady not being Brady. I know it's unrealistic to hold him to a higher standard , but without him being heroic in O'Brien's schizoid offense pats don't go anywhere and faced their waterloo against lucky jints.  Sucks beyond belief but we get to turn that page (no pun intended) ,and wave byby to coco the monkey O'Brien who couldn't figure out a winning game plan in the postseason to save his life.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to hang3xc's comment:

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    So the D was catastrophic in the playoffs last year?

    I agree that the Defense looks much better and they can even be called a potent force at this point, but let's not exaggerate on how 'poor' our defense was last year.




    I would call a D that could't get off the field in the SB to save their life, couldn't get a single turnover, took a mind-numbingly stupid 12 man penalty to allow 7 points, took an equally mind-numbingly stupid offsides penalty at a crucial juncture and folded like a broken chinese lawn chair in the last minutes - pretty much a catastrophe. And the rest of the objective world out there thinks the same.

     



    Umm, no they don't.  A closely contested well played lower scoring sb game doesn't mean only ne's d was a catastrophe.  Twenty million at qb tossed the worst int of his career to hand momentum back in the 4th.  Eli outplayed brady.

     

    That is a catastrophe since eli can't hold brady's jock.




    Giants O held the ball for almost 40 minutes. That didn't give Brady a whole lot of time to work and establish ANY rythym... and he still almost pulled it off




    gee imagine if Eli could hold Brady's jock-he might beat him all the time

    oh wait a minute.....




    The Giants havent beaten anyone. THey got an act of god to win in 2007. THey had an act of god twice to be hadned a victory over SF last year. THen they had two more acts of god in the injuries to two All Pros on the Pats O and even then it took a lot more luck and a missed pass to a WIDE open receiver.

    Bottom line: Giants havent beaten anyone.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    How about this, babe and Neal, you're both right...!

    Brady and obie were off AND Chung and co.  failed to stop the last drive.  Put MCC in place of Chung and the pass to manningham gets swatted like a harmless fly.

    Not to mention other improvements but close games come down to a few plays here and there and a couple players can be the difference w/l...

     



    NO. I'm not going to sit by and see Brady maligned by far too many people who just don't understand the game when he had a good SB.

     

    Brady's SB performance projects for a season to....

     

    91 PR, 4,416 yards with 32 TDs and 16 INTs. ANY NFL team would count that as a very good season. And Brady managed that despite his greatest weapon, Gronk, being nearly useless and the D giving him only a fraction of the normal number of possessions.

    Enough of this BS!

     

     



    Thanks for posting that and I am the biggest Brady fan, and know exactly what he brings to this team.  I also know that O'Brien frustrated Brady and stressed him out.  With mcd in the booth and obie as a lame duck OC was a recipe for disaster . They came close to pulling it off but it wasn't  enough considering the fortunate play of jints runningbacks having fumbles bounce back to them and Chung failing to break up Elis wobbling rainbow.

    the stats you posted show Brady not being Brady. I know it's unrealistic to hold him to a higher standard , but without him being heroic in O'Brien's schizoid offense pats don't go anywhere and faced their waterloo against lucky jints.  Sucks beyond belief but we get to turn that page (no pun intended) ,and wave byby to coco the monkey O'Brien who couldn't figure out a winning game plan in the postseason to save his life.




    AGAIN, you just don't get it. Brady's play in the SB is quite in keeping with his career numbers. And, yet AGAIN, his production was prodigious considering the very truncated number of possessions the D not being able to get off the field caused. And, yet AGAIN, he was virtually missing his deadliest weapon in Gronk. The RBs weren't even getting 4 ypc to add to his difficulty.

     

    I'm just sick and tired of a bunch of spoiled brats bashing on Brady when he doesn't come up with a superhuman game to make up for other deficiencies on the team.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    In response to glenr's comment:

    That 'catastrophic' defense got us into the super bowl and held the Giants to under their season scoring average. Babe who is a legend in his own mind will never admit that.



    Exactly.


    Nice Rusty you come on the same thread with 4 differenct logins and call other trolls.  You Still don't get it do you?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: Ya know what's nice?

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:




    Bingo!! Well put. This defense changed because of Talib and a aggressive nature towards the draft this year to change the fortunes of this defense. Things don't take 4 years to improve in the NFL - in fact things change overnight with injuries, free agent signings, drafts, trades...it's the most fluid roster in ALL of sports and teams change very very quickly. Unless you have a good QB - then you have the chance to be good for a long time.




    I will disagree with you here.  Just because your fortunes appear to change overnight in the NFL does not mean they actually did.  A player like Talib can be the missing puzzle piece that leads to improved results, but you don't "finish the puzzle" without all of the other pieces.  A defense featuring Talib and 10 other JAGS would not be very good.




    True, if one single guy could change a defense he'd have to be a very very special/impact type of guy...Talib is not that. However do you think it takes four drafts, four free agency periods and four off seasons to improve your defense? We almost entirely rebuilt this roster back in the early dynasty years between our first and second super bowl - those two teams were vastly different in personel...it didn't take 4 years. You see teams change dramatically in one off season - you get a team that basically stinks one year and then they add a couple of pieces and they are in the playoffs. Look at Washington, they add a QB and suddenly they are on the brink of the playoffs.



    Mthurl, I agree that the pieces for the most part were there.  However what I've seen since Talib arrived is a change in the culture of the D.  You don't see guy 10 yard behind the receiver just waiting to tackle after a catch, they are contending for the ball and hitting guys during a catch if they make the catch.  I can't say for sure if that was Talib giving a could example to Denard and McCourty or if it was a coaching change, all I know is it started in Talib's first game.   

    The Man pressure they are doing in coverage is also allowing the O line to get to the QB and hurry him and sack him.  This is helping with the rise of Mayo from week nine to now as well.

     
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