Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to LessPhatRex's comment:

    This whole thread is hilarious in that the only thing that was able to move that awful pass D from dead last to bottom five after years of drafting defensive busts was a 1/2 season rental player thrown off another team who was so much better than any of the other pass defenders on the patsies roster that he'll now cost 8-10 mil a year to keep. 



    Better then paying over $10mil for a QB who doesn't even rank in the top 32 in the league

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Tagging Talib simply doesn't make sense to me.  He made a difference in the secondary but 10.6 mil?  I don't think he's worth it and I don't see it happening.



    That's kind of how the franchise tag ends up working you. You end up overpaying for one year to avoid locking yourself into a long term commitment.

    Franchised Welker for 9.5 when many don't even want to pay him 8 a year.

    I can't see the Patriots giving this guy a long term deal. Maybe 3 at most.

    My opinion would be to tag him, draft a rookie...and hopefully by next season you can develop a cb for once and you can let talib go. If not, then just resign him after seeing him play a full year in the system.

     

    Talib was not that great last year. He made a huge difference against mediocre QBs...Best QB he faced was in SF, and they scored 41. Next best was Schaub...and I don't know what to make of that performance, because Schaub was pretty much struggling against everybody down the stretch. Too small a sample size to judge how he did against the Ravens.

     

    Talib has some leverage because of how weak the cb market is. Pats can't go into next season with Dennard as the number 1 though. We'll see how the market shakes out. Colts have a ton of cap space and could use a cb.

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Talib and a seventh round pick were traded for a 4th round pick so that gives some idea of how highly the Bucs valued him. And he was injured twice in 7 games for the Pats so his durability is at least a questionmark along with his red flags off the field.

    There are a number of mid level CBs on the FA list and I am not sure he is better than any of the others. I really don't see the Pats tagging him - a 10M one year rental just seems out of line with his performance. (I don't see them using the tag on anyone this year - 11M for Welker?, 10M for Vollmer? - just too much money for any of them.)

    Some of the available (depending on team actions before FA)

    Grimes (ATL) Cox (Jax), Williams (Buf) Willimas (Balt), Cormartie (Phi) Houston (Det)

    None of them are world beaters, but ... Some or all of them will be signed for a lot less than 10M. And I would sy they are all in the Talib range of skill. And a tag number is pure cap money, a contract typically shifts a fair amount to later years.

     



    I actually really like Grimes. He was a top corner before getting hurt. Reports i've heard is that he's seeking a one year prove he's healthy deal

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

    I don't see them going big time for Talib. They need to address it thought the draft. Hell I'd look at Seattles corners and draft a duplicate.  Talib is an upgrade for sure, but upgrade over what? Dowling is either with the team after camp or he's gone.  if I had my way, I'd trade Hernandez to Arizona for Patrick Peterson. They need another playmaker to pair with Fitz and we need a CB of Petersons caliber. Throw in a 2 as well. Remember they have Ballard on IR which could make up for Hernandez.  I'm in Phoenix so I know how bad they need o help. Hell the sonics out here were offering half off slushies if Cards win. Lets just say that rarely happened.




    Hernandez + 2nd... Hahahahahahaha craaaaazy

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to LessPhatRex's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to LessPhatRex's comment:

     

    This whole thread is hilarious in that the only thing that was able to move that awful pass D from dead last to bottom five after years of drafting defensive busts was a 1/2 season rental player thrown off another team who was so much better than any of the other pass defenders on the patsies roster that he'll now cost 8-10 mil a year to keep. 

     



    Better then paying over $10mil for a QB who doesn't even rank in the top 32 in the league

     

     




    Yep, in a post about Talib, all you can do is talk about Sanchez.... because QBs and CBs are easily compared?  How many playoff wins does Talib have?  Reagardless, Sanchez is, in fact, in the top 32, just ahead of 6 year/58 million dollar QB, Matt Cassel.  Intersting.  You're both dumb and ignorant.

     



    lol Sanchez isn't a top 32 QB regardless of how many wins his team gets him in the playoffs. Yep on a Pats forum there is a Jets troll who talks about a KC QB, dumb and ignorant is one way of calling it

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Tagging Talib simply doesn't make sense to me.  He made a difference in the secondary but 10.6 mil?  I don't think he's worth it and I don't see it happening.



    i offer 4 years startign at 6 mil (beahvior clause) as i said afterhis first gaem here, we had more leverage then for him to sign a deal like this.

    id waggle anything workable for us, even a year for anything 1 mil or less than the tag. if i have to i tag him.

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    Tagging Talib simply doesn't make sense to me.  He made a difference in the secondary but 10.6 mil?  I don't think he's worth it and I don't see it happening.

     



    That's kind of how the franchise tag ends up working you. You end up overpaying for one year to avoid locking yourself into a long term commitment.

     

    Franchised Welker for 9.5 when many don't even want to pay him 8 a year.

    I can't see the Patriots giving this guy a long term deal. Maybe 3 at most.

    My opinion would be to tag him, draft a rookie...and hopefully by next season you can develop a cb for once and you can let talib go. If not, then just resign him after seeing him play a full year in the system.

     

    Talib was not that great last year. He made a huge difference against mediocre QBs...Best QB he faced was in SF, and they scored 41. Next best was Schaub...and I don't know what to make of that performance, because Schaub was pretty much struggling against everybody down the stretch. Too small a sample size to judge how he did against the Ravens.

     

    Talib has some leverage because of how weak the cb market is. Pats can't go into next season with Dennard as the number 1 though. We'll see how the market shakes out. Colts have a ton of cap space and could use a cb.



    "My opinion would be to tag him, draft a rookie...and hopefully by next season you can develop a cb for once and you can let talib go. If not, then just resign him after seeing him play a full year in the system."

    exacly what ive been saying

    re your 3 year max idea, # of years doesnt mean anything, playres can be cut.. only the guaranteed money matters.

    i offer 4. if its sweet the whole term we keep him. oherwise we cut him. behavior clasue in his contract too.

    6 mil per year my target #

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    Talib and a seventh round pick were traded for a 4th round pick so that gives some idea of how highly the Bucs valued him. And he was injured twice in 7 games for the Pats so his durability is at least a questionmark along with his red flags off the field.

    There are a number of mid level CBs on the FA list and I am not sure he is better than any of the others. I really don't see the Pats tagging him - a 10M one year rental just seems out of line with his performance. (I don't see them using the tag on anyone this year - 11M for Welker?, 10M for Vollmer? - just too much money for any of them.)

    Some of the available (depending on team actions before FA)

    Grimes (ATL) Cox (Jax), Williams (Buf) Willimas (Balt), Cormartie (Phi) Houston (Det)

    None of them are world beaters, but ... Some or all of them will be signed for a lot less than 10M. And I would sy they are all in the Talib range of skill. And a tag number is pure cap money, a contract typically shifts a fair amount to later years.

     

     

    hey mia,

    re

    "None of them are world beaters, but ... Some or all of them will be signed for a lot less than 10M. And I would sy they are all in the Talib range of skill. And a tag number is pure cap money, a contract typically shifts a fair amount to later years."

     

    you have a point 

    but cant say i agree these players are near equal to talib. hes a #1 cb.  there isnt another #1 available in fa

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:

     

    Yup Cuz 6-3 6-4 Corners grow on trees They are litterly almost non exsistant.. And there is A less than o% chance Arizona is gonna trade An up and coming Shutdown Corner in Patrick Peterson  even for AH.

     



    Big, tall corners do exist they just have trouble staying healthy, it's an impact position where often they end up tackling big RB's or getting plowed by offensive lineman pulling out on a screen.  Ras is a great example of that.

     

    Talib is really good, he's physical so his skill is that he doesn't allow receivers many catches, the point of having a fast safety like McCourty back there is to erase the mistakes of physical corners like Talib and Dennard who stop WR's at the line of scrimmage, this also only works if you have the pass rush up front to get to the QB, otherwise eventually these WR's will get open and burn you.

    We need Talib or another physical corner who plays like him, whether Ras can stay healthy remains to be seen, but without the pass rush we're no better off.



    agree with all your comments here, save one. i chance no better off to we arent going to win a sb wihtout a psss rush (likely anyway). 

    i keep talib and add the bog tough fast coner xavier rhodes.

    if we dotn tag anyone, sign volmer, talib. rework brady or fork, mankins

    get a legit pass rusher and safety in fa (or at least the pass rusher)

    we can go rhodes in rd 1    6 2, 215 and tough man to man

    best big outsde wr left in rd 2 ie woods usc

    one of dt, o line, safety, cover lb in rd 3

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Good corners are hard to find and the Pats don't have a stellar record of finding them with later picks (Dennard is the exception to a rule that includes far too many Wheatleys and Butlers and Wilhites and Dowlings).  I think if we try to get a corner in the draft we may have to trade up to ensure we get a good one because it's a position of burning need with McCourty moved to safety and Talib, Arrington, and Cole all free agents. I think Dennard is currently the only corner of note on the roster. 



    good post.

    agreed, excpet rhodes may fall to 29, or an almost comprable cb (there are a few) at the end of rd 1.

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to Norger's comment:

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

     

    I don't see them going big time for Talib. They need to address it thought the draft. Hell I'd look at Seattles corners and draft a duplicate.  Talib is an upgrade for sure, but upgrade over what? Dowling is either with the team after camp or he's gone.  if I had my way, I'd trade Hernandez to Arizona for Patrick Peterson. They need another playmaker to pair with Fitz and we need a CB of Petersons caliber. Throw in a 2 as well. Remember they have Ballard on IR which could make up for Hernandez.  I'm in Phoenix so I know how bad they need o help. Hell the sonics out here were offering half off slushies if Cards win. Lets just say that rarely happened.

     




    Not to be Captain Obvious, but they haven't done such a great job addressing corner in the draft over the last 7 years or so.  The list of busts goes on and on; Ras I is officially on it as well.   McCourty is a good player, but not a good corner.  Dennard looks good.  Those are the only two keepers I can remember out of the countless high draft choices they've wasted on this position in recent drafts.  I have zero confidence they can fix this in the draft.  Hope they sign Talib.  It was a different defense with him on the field.

     



    +1

    and draft rd 1 corner

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     


    Big, tall corners do exist they just have trouble staying healthy, it's an impact position where often they end up tackling big RB's or getting plowed by offensive lineman pulling out on a screen.  Ras is a great example of that.

    Talib is really good, he's physical so his skill is that he doesn't allow receivers many catches, the point of having a fast safety like McCourty back there is to erase the mistakes of physical corners like Talib and Dennard who stop WR's at the line of scrimmage, this also only works if you have the pass rush up front to get to the QB, otherwise eventually these WR's will get open and burn you.

    We need Talib or another physical corner who plays like him, whether Ras can stay healthy remains to be seen, but without the pass rush we're no better off.

     



    It's also hard to find tall guys who can react fast to the cuts of WRs.  Shorter guys tend to be more fluid and have better balance.  That's why big, tall corners are so rare. 

     

    Like Wozzy says, rush and coverage complement each other and one without the other isn't all that effective.  As far as the pass rush goes, we don't necessarily need more sacks, but we need to get enough pressure to make QBs have to throw faster.  We also need to be able to collapse the pocket and force the QB to throw on the move when we want to.  

     



    aslo agreed. exactly.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I'd just be worried about giving a very good corner, money that exceeds his performance. Also I worry about this guy getting hurt. Lastly you also have to consider this guy's past - how many off field things has he had? Ten? You can't tell me that all the sudden this stuff is just going to stop. Anyone ever seen this guy do an interview? I've seen convicts look more innocent.

    mthurl,
    " You can't tell me that all the sudden this stuff is just going to stop. "

     

    it did and it has, since tampa moved him from his hometown in offseason to living nearby the team.

    whwen we made the trade i said pats should have done the same.

     

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    every corner on the current roster would be a LOT better if the dline and lb's could generate any kind of consistent pass rush.  No DB in the world is going to win a battle when the opposing QB has 6-8 seconds to decide who to throw to.  Another consistent edge rusher is needed to offset the doubles that Jones is going to be seeing next year.  I know it is taboo to question the great BB but most of the guys in the backfield over the past 5 or 6 years have talent....anyone ever given consideration to the scheme that the Pats play?  Maybe it's time to rethink the bend but don't break concept and attack the line of scrimmage more.  The DB's need to get more physical at the line of scrimmage...if they get a few penalties so be it, for every penalty called they can get away with 5 that won't be called.  That is what made Seattle DB's successful this past year.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to levasseujj's comment:

    every corner on the current roster would be a LOT better if the dline and lb's could generate any kind of consistent pass rush.  No DB in the world is going to win a battle when the opposing QB has 6-8 seconds to decide who to throw to.  Another consistent edge rusher is needed to offset the doubles that Jones is going to be seeing next year.  I know it is taboo to question the great BB but most of the guys in the backfield over the past 5 or 6 years have talent....anyone ever given consideration to the scheme that the Pats play?  Maybe it's time to rethink the bend but don't break concept and attack the line of scrimmage more.  The DB's need to get more physical at the line of scrimmage...if they get a few penalties so be it, for every penalty called they can get away with 5 that won't be called.  That is what made Seattle DB's successful this past year.



    good post. 

    i hear ya.

    your readin my mind

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    Tagging Talib simply doesn't make sense to me.  He made a difference in the secondary but 10.6 mil?  I don't think he's worth it and I don't see it happening.

     



    That's kind of how the franchise tag ends up working you. You end up overpaying for one year to avoid locking yourself into a long term commitment.

     

    Franchised Welker for 9.5 when many don't even want to pay him 8 a year.

    I can't see the Patriots giving this guy a long term deal. Maybe 3 at most.

    My opinion would be to tag him, draft a rookie...and hopefully by next season you can develop a cb for once and you can let talib go. If not, then just resign him after seeing him play a full year in the system.

     

    Talib was not that great last year. He made a huge difference against mediocre QBs...Best QB he faced was in SF, and they scored 41. Next best was Schaub...and I don't know what to make of that performance, because Schaub was pretty much struggling against everybody down the stretch. Too small a sample size to judge how he did against the Ravens.

     

    Talib has some leverage because of how weak the cb market is. Pats can't go into next season with Dennard as the number 1 though. We'll see how the market shakes out. Colts have a ton of cap space and could use a cb.




    I agree. The thing with Talib is we really didn't have a large sample of what type of player he is here...he didn't play enough. I don't like the thought of giving him a long term contract, I just don't trust him for a variety of reasons. What is this guy going to cost in a long term contract? 45? More? No thanks - if he didn't get hurt so much or have the off field stuff, then sure.

     
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    Re: Zo: talked with all my contacts inside, there is no problem with talib or his work ethic

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

     

    I don't see them going big time for Talib. They need to address it thought the draft. Hell I'd look at Seattles corners and draft a duplicate.  Talib is an upgrade for sure, but upgrade over what? Dowling is either with the team after camp or he's gone.  if I had my way, I'd trade Hernandez to Arizona for Patrick Peterson. They need another playmaker to pair with Fitz and we need a CB of Petersons caliber. Throw in a 2 as well. Remember they have Ballard on IR which could make up for Hernandez.  I'm in Phoenix so I know how bad they need o help. Hell the sonics out here were offering half off slushies if Cards win. Lets just say that rarely happened.

     




     

    I like your thinking but no way PP is going anywhere. In 2 years he will be known as the best Cb in football and noone will be talking about Revis. I actually think he is a better player now but it will take the rest a few years to notice because he plays in Arizona but PP  is the best CB in the league and is better because he returns punts ala Deion so AH aint gonna get him. Need to throw in Brady.... lol

     
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