1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : Bautista will win a Silver Slugger, but not the MVP.  With him, the Blue Jays are a distant 4th place.  Without him, they are a more distant 4th place.  
    Posted by slomag


    Alex Rodriguez and Andre Dawson won MVP's for last place teams.  Let's not pretend you have to win the division to get the award...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    Verlander gets my vote. He is having one of those rare, exceedingly exceptional years. He could get close to 25 wins.

    19-5
    2.28 ERA
    212 Ks in 209-1/3 innings with only 45 walks.
    28 starts - 7+ innings in 22 of those games, including his last 7
    0.88 whip
    in those 28 starts, has given up 4 or more earned runs only THREE times with a high of 6
    4 CG, 2 SO, 1 no hitter
    4 10+ K games

    He's puting together a season to rival Pedro in '99.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Curtis gets my MVP vote, and his glove is far better than some models indicate. A true five tool player coming into his own. Agon excels with a few tools himself, but I was never keen on giving MVP considerations to a guy who doesn't run out groundballs.
    Posted by moremo


    What are you basing the comment him not running out groundballs?
    What "models" are you talking about?
    What about Ellsbury?
    What about Verlander?

    Troll
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : Granderson takes two more lefties yard. Bye bye squared. The kid now has 10 triples, 38 HR's, 107 RBI's, 121 runs scored, all stats that top Agon, three by a very impressive margin. All that production from Curtis despite the fact that he is putting far less balls into play as compared to the ever steady Agon. If you wish good things for good people, then it's quite easy to enjoy the season that both players have put together. It's near impossible to believe that a true baseball fan would not have knowledge of how authentically honest and decent Curtis Granderson is. True baseball fans, near and far, have to respect the fact that Granderson has delivered those impressive numbers of his with 49 less hits than a fellow MVP candidate.
    Posted by moremo


    What is the point of this thread?  Give Curtis the MVP.  I have no problem with that.  I am perfectly happy to have Gonzalez finish second in that voting.  All I care about is the playoffs and advancing.  All this other talk is simply noise.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : I was just asking about AGon...I suppose if you're throwing the PED thing at Yankees, playing at Fenway Park explains the dramatic increase in AGon's batting average. Unless he was a .350 hitter before? Or PED's have nothing to do with batting average?  To be honest, I think neither him nor Granderson are on PED's...this argument is silly.
    Posted by mikeyintheboogiedown


    No argument,  they would walk Gonzo in SD, not give him anything to hit.  That is why his avg is so good, you can't walk him anymore with great hitters behind him.   He has benefited from Youk and Papi big time.   His OBP has been about .400 the last 3 years, he lead the league with 119 BBs in 2009.  Only 59 BBs this year.  Huge difference there. 

    But Granderson has really jumped in production, you have to admit that.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Granderson?  .270 ... with a slugging % of .496 ... and he is almost 100 points higher this year.   Gonzo was .298 avg last year, but has had  plus .500 slugging percentage for the last 6 years.  And Gonzo averages over 30 HRs a year the last 5 years. Granderson is the aberration, not Gonzo.  He never had a 100 RBI season before, only hit 30 HRs (exactly) once before ... no, Gonzo was always a hitting star. Are you trying to say Gonzo wasn't? RBI by Gonzo ... ties Granderson at 103 .... bye bye Curtis.
    Posted by soxmeister

    I was just asking about AGon...I suppose if you're throwing the PED thing at Yankees, playing at Fenway Park explains the dramatic increase in AGon's batting average. Unless he was a .350 hitter before? Or PED's have nothing to do with batting average? 

    To be honest, I think neither him nor Granderson are on PED's...this argument is silly.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moremo. Show moremo's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:


    What is the point of this thread?  Give Curtis the MVP.  I have no problem with that.  I am perfectly happy to have Gonzalez finish second in that voting.  All I care about is the playoffs and advancing.  All this other talk is simply noise.

    Posted by jimdavis


    Mr. Jim Cranky Davis, if all you "care about is the playoffs and advancing" you haven't had a care in the world since 2008.

    Granderson is having a spectacular season, as is Agon, and the point was simple enough. Agon appeared to be on a path to easily end the season leading the league in RBI's, that is no longer the case.

    Should this board have been shut down once the Red Sox were swept out in 2009?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : If you're in the MVP discussion then you are having a great year.  Period. 
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    Nobody said he wasn't having a great year.  He has to do it more than once for the best in the game stuff to even begin. Period.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : Yeah, 1 more RBI ... great point!!!!   But as I said, Gonzo is out of his slump.  5 HRs in the last 3 days.  You guys handed the award out too soon, change the name on it to "Gonzo".    You would be a fool to think Granderson will end up with more RBIs than Gonzo.   Gonzo will also have over 200 hits, he is at 181 already ... 50 more hits (!) than Granderson, and it is still August. Granderson is one skinny dude.  Amazing he hits it so far.  Even the HGH usage doesn't explain that.  Els doesn't have nearly as many HRs as Granderson, but point taken.  How these guys with those frames crush the ball I will never understand. 
    Posted by soxmeister


    It's the wrist action; ever hear of Hank Aaron? As far as HGH is concerned, are you accusing, implicating, speculating or all of the above? And, while you're at it, what about a few of the good guys?  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : Alex Rodriguez and Andre Dawson won MVP's for last place teams.  Let's not pretend you have to win the division to get the award...
    Posted by notin


    There are rare exceptions when there are no good choices on playoff teams.  In 2003, the Yankees best hitters were Posada and Giambi, and the Sox had Manny, Ortiz and Nomar.  The Twins had Shannon Stewart and the A's had Miguel Tejada.  Only Posada, Ortiz and Manny could really come close to A-Rod's production that year, and they were all defensive liabilities, while A-Rod won a GG at short while leading the league in HRs.  

    It can happen, but it takes a perfect storm.  It's far more common that the best player in the league is head and shoulders above the MVP winner.  Otherwise, Ted Williams would have about a dozen of them.  In 1951, Williams led the league in both OBP and Slugging, and finished 13th in the MVP voting.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : SPC people often use the "term" great a bit too much and you're known for blowing things out of proportion.  He has to do it more than once before you can be taken seriously, for now your "best" threads are just silly.
    Posted by mikeyintheboogiedown


    If you're in the MVP discussion then you are having a great year.  Period. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Curtis gets my MVP vote, and his glove is far better than some models indicate. A true five tool player coming into his own. Agon excels with a few tools himself, but I was never keen on giving MVP considerations to a guy who doesn't run out groundballs.
    Posted by moremo


    I agree that Granderson is the MVP at this point.  Unless he suddenly goes into a slump, he is probably the best candidate for MVP. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In fact, most players are likely on hgh, but you don't know if they are or not!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    It think it comes down to the division. Who wins is going to affect a lot of votes.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Gonzo always hit, explain Granderson?  
    Posted by soxmeister


    Whats his career BA?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : Mr. Jim Cranky Davis, if all you "care about is the playoffs and advancing" you haven't had a care in the world since 2008. Granderson is having a spectacular season, as is Agon, and the point was simple enough. Agon appeared to be on a path to easily end the season leading the league in RBI's, that is no longer the case. Should this board have been shut down once the Red Sox were swept out in 2009?
    Posted by moremo


    Wow, what a tool?!  There have been plenty of worthwhile conversations on the forum.  This just doesn't happen to be one of them.  Of course the Sox have not advanced in the playoffs beyond the first round since 2008.  That's why I care about it.  Because of that fact, who wins the MVP means little to me. So, you tried to make your argument but instead made mine.  Thanks!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from *The-Babe*. Show *The-Babe*'s posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Agon has - 49 more hits, 70 points better in Average, 18 more doubles, 45 less strike outs, better OBO, 14 more total bases Granderson has - 30 more runs, 7 more triples, 23 more stolen bases, everthing else is close......I think Agon wins it if the season eneded today

    Posted by davescout

    You forgot that Granderson has more RBI's and a better SLG%....the difference in OPS is negligible.

    Last I checked the object of a batter is to generate runs. The fact that Granderson has generated 31 more runs than agon is huge.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    bautista's numbers are the best.  then agon, then granderson in my mind.  Sox foters split their vote i bet.  agon ells will be 3rd 4th, and pedroia and papi will also get votes.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Baustista. Ave: .314 OBP: .454 Slug: .649 Home Runs: 37 RBIs and Runs Bautista cannot control, he's the MVP in every definition, performance definitely, team performance, I think there's no arguing that Toronto is a below 500 team without him. You shouldn't have to wear a Sox, or Yankees jersey to win the MVP.      
    Posted by NUSoxFan


    This is only partly true.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Curtis gets my MVP vote, and his glove is far better than some models indicate. A true five tool player coming into his own. Agon excels with a few tools himself, but I was never keen on giving MVP considerations to a guy who doesn't run out groundballs.
    Posted by moremo
    moremo, i love Grandy and the season he's having, but 5 tools?...gotta say that's a bit of a reach...terrific player, a big reason the Yanks have remained near the top..just don't think he'd rank in he upper tier of throwers..still he's everything i though he'd be as a player...as for AG...does it really matter how long it took with those sick numbers?...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Curtis gets my MVP vote, and his glove is far better than some models indicate. A true five tool player coming into his own. Agon excels with a few tools himself, but I was never keen on giving MVP considerations to a guy who doesn't run out groundballs.
    Posted by moremo


    We are certainly glad you are not keen.  How many ground balls did Bonds run out?  BTW, Agon hit 2 tonight and will give Curtis a run for his MVP. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyintheboogiedown. Show mikeyintheboogiedown's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : I just threw out a topic that was discussed on Dennis and Callahan... What's wrong with that?  This is a Red Sox forum.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    Nothing is wrong with that other than you do that all the time when you know better.  You're a smart baseball guy SPC (not as smart as you think) but you know the game and you know that Ellsbury has to do this more than once more than twice even to be considered The Best in the game.  You had a thread that Jon Lester was the best this season and quite a few others, you're motive?  I'm not gonna speculate on that but you do it often even when you yourself know its not true.....Sox fans have even said that about your best of threads.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break. : You mean like ellsbury?
    Posted by *The-Babe*


    Looks like sour puss is digging deep for ways to bash Ellsbury...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    Baustista. Ave: .314 OBP: .454 Slug: .649 Home Runs: 37 RBIs and Runs Bautista cannot control, he's the MVP in every definition, performance definitely, team performance, I think there's no arguing that Toronto is a below 500 team without him. You shouldn't have to wear a Sox, or Yankees jersey to win the MVP.      
    Posted by NUSoxFan


    Bautista will win a Silver Slugger, but not the MVP.  With him, the Blue Jays are a distant 4th place.  Without him, they are a more distant 4th place.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.

    In Response to Re: Granderson beats Agon to 100 RBI's. No easy task with the numbers Agon had at the mid season break.:
    1. Bautista (hgh?) 2. Granderson (hgh?) 3. AGon
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    How do you label these guys on HGH? Did you ever read the Sports Illustrated article on what turned Bautista around in September 2009?

    And if you label Bautista and Granderson as hgh question marks, why not Gonzo?
     
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