Deven Marrero

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    Deven Marrero

    Had 4hits and 6ribbys for the Paw Sox today. Should Drew be dealt this kid should get a good look.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    Real deal. Arizona State product.
    scottwad24

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    I see Workman, and Webster got hit pretty hard though. Offense picked them up.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I see Workman, and Webster got hit pretty hard though. Offense picked them up.



    Webster not in SOX future. Workman, I still believe he has a shot.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I see Workman, and Webster got hit pretty hard though. Offense picked them up.



    Webster not in SOX future. Workman, I still believe he has a shot.



    Why not??? Webster is our top ranked pitcher after Owens????

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I see Workman, and Webster got hit pretty hard though. Offense picked them up.



    Websters first bad outing since the beginning of the season, Workman on the otherhand has been pretty disappointing ever since he was sent down.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I see Workman, and Webster got hit pretty hard though. Offense picked them up.



    Webster not in SOX future. Workman, I still believe he has a shot.



    Why not??? Webster is our top ranked pitcher after Owens????



    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    Swihart got Number 10 today. Victorino went 0-2 for Lowell.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?

    Rubby de la Rosa may or may not have been ranked ahead of Allen Webster on Red Sox prospect lists if de la Rosa had not lost his prospect status before being traded to the Red Sox in August 2012.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    Webster always gets rated as a high ceiling guy. But every time I see him he disappoints. Something seems to be missing. At this point, DeLaRosa looks like the better bet. We have to wait and see how Owens does at AAA before getting our hopes too high. It is not too smart to think that any of these guys can replace Lester. Maybe one of them can, but we should not count on it.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to ADG's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I see Workman, and Webster got hit pretty hard though. Offense picked them up.



    Webster not in SOX future. Workman, I still believe he has a shot.



    Why not??? Webster is our top ranked pitcher after Owens????



    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?



    Do you ever read prospect rankings? scouting reports? or the stats these guys put up??

    RDLR has more MLB experience, has just as much upside as Webster, was older and more advanced than him.

    Webster is also recognized nationally as being a much better talent. #88 by Baseball America, #46 by mlb.com

    Workman...not on any.  Also Webster is/was above workman on every scouting agency's top 10/15/20 or whatever it is they have.

    Also Webster has put up MUCH more impressive numbers in Pawtucket than Workman, Webster has a bad MLB stat line, in a very small SSS and at a younger age than Workman. 

    Websters pure stuff is without a doubt better than Workmans, his only concern has been his command/control, which can make or break a pitcher and he has been doing a LOT better this year, meanwhile it looks like Workman has taken a step back.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Webster always gets rated as a high ceiling guy. But every time I see him he disappoints. Something seems to be missing. At this point, DeLaRosa looks like the better bet. We have to wait and see how Owens does at AAA before getting our hopes too high. It is not too smart to think that any of these guys can replace Lester. Maybe one of them can, but we should not count on it.

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    What do you mean "every time you see him" when have you seen him.  After a few bad starts last year he has been very good, and hasn't had a bad start since the very beginning of the year.  He's been REALLY good down in Pawtucket.  I'm saying we can count on him to have that level of success at the MLB level, but he is one of the best talents in our system.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?

    Rubby de la Rosa may or may not have been ranked ahead of Allen Webster on Red Sox prospect lists if de la Rosa had not lost his prospect status before being traded to the Red Sox in August 2012.



    link is down right now but there is a soxprospects ranking archive.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    Delarosa is great but he's missing a curve ball.

    Without a curve, eventually the hitters will get to him.  Fastball, slider and change aren't enough.

    What surprises me is that he wasn't taught the curve.  Speed is a God-given talent.  Either you have it, or don't.  But, a curve can taught.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?

    Rubby de la Rosa may or may not have been ranked ahead of Allen Webster on Red Sox prospect lists if de la Rosa had not lost his prospect status before being traded to the Red Sox in August 2012.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    It's mostly a waste of time trying to project 2nd tier SPs.  Even top tier pitching prospects are pretty unreliable.

    IRT DLR, depending on the impact remaining from his injury, he was pretty bad last year.  Even this year, while better, he still had a 3.8 BB/9 in AAA this year, even though he was very good for us.  Webster, too, until he has 10 games in the pros, won't be easily read.

    It continues to amaze me that RS fans think they know all their is to know about rookies after a couple of weeks.  Position players, particularly defense-first guys, can take 2-3 years to see if their offense can support their gloves.

    Pitchers can easily take 3-4 years before knowing what you have.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Webster always gets rated as a high ceiling guy. But every time I see him he disappoints. Something seems to be missing. At this point, DeLaRosa looks like the better bet. We have to wait and see how Owens does at AAA before getting our hopes too high. It is not too smart to think that any of these guys can replace Lester. Maybe one of them can, but we should not count on it.

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    What do you mean "every time you see him" when have you seen him.  After a few bad starts last year he has been very good, and hasn't had a bad start since the very beginning of the year.  He's been REALLY good down in Pawtucket.  I'm saying we can count on him to have that level of success at the MLB level, but he is one of the best talents in our system.




    [object HTMLDivElement]  I have never seen him at Pawtucket. When I say " every time I have seen him " it refers to every time I have seen him on TV , pitching for the Sox. I hope that clarifies it. I also hope that he can do better than what I have seen. It is up to him to do it. Hype does not equal success.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:


    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:


    In response to dgalehouse's comment:


    Webster always gets rated as a high ceiling guy. But every time I see him he disappoints. Something seems to be missing. At this point, DeLaRosa looks like the better bet. We have to wait and see how Owens does at AAA before getting our hopes too high. It is not too smart to think that any of these guys can replace Lester. Maybe one of them can, but we should not count on it.


    Stabbed by Foulke.




    What do you mean "every time you see him" when have you seen him.  After a few bad starts last year he has been very good, and hasn't had a bad start since the very beginning of the year.  He's been REALLY good down in Pawtucket.  I'm saying we can count on him to have that level of success at the MLB level, but he is one of the best talents in our system.





    [object HTMLDivElement]  I have never seen him at Pawtucket. When I say " every time I have seen him " it refers to every time I have seen him on TV , pitching for the Sox. I hope that clarifies it. I also hope that he can do better than what I have seen. It is up to him to do it. Hype does not equal success.




    Webster hasn't pitched this year in the majors, again you are judging a young kid  from his first 30 years in the majors. 


    Yes you are correct that hype doesn't equal success, but the hype is there for a reason.  You can't just discount it and write a guy off after a few innings or a few at bats either.  There is literally a whole industry, with hundreds of millions of dollars that goes into the scouting, evaluation, and developing of young talent and it can't just be dismissed at home from the couch because a guy falters in his first mini MLB stint.


    Webster has one of the best fastballs in our system, probably the second best curveball, a plus slider and an average curveball.  Thats' 3 plus pitches and one average.  That is more than any other pitcher in our system.  Workman doesn't even come close to that kind of an arsenal and neither does RDLR,


    does this mean he will be the better MLB pitcher?  Of course not, but all things considered if he puts it all together he has the most talent of any pitching Prospect in our system besides possibly Henry Owens.


    I would love a good prospect debate, but it doesn't start with a guys first 30 innings pitched at the MLB level when he was young, a rookie, and discounting every other thing he's done since he's been on gods good earth.


     


    Now with that said, you bring up a really good point that none of these guys can replace Lester.  Even if one could, we can't count on it nor should we.  Plus It will be huge to have a talented veteran to lead a young rotation and help mentor them.  I think a lot of these kids are going to be good MLB pitchers and it will help to have guys like Lester around.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?

    Rubby de la Rosa may or may not have been ranked ahead of Allen Webster on Red Sox prospect lists if de la Rosa had not lost his prospect status before being traded to the Red Sox in August 2012.

    link is down right now but there is a soxprospects ranking archive.

    SoxProspects ranked Allen Webster slightly ahead of Rubby de la Rosa in April and June 2013 even though de la Rosa at the time did not meet the SoxPropsects' definition of prospect:

    http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?

    Rubby de la Rosa may or may not have been ranked ahead of Allen Webster on Red Sox prospect lists if de la Rosa had not lost his prospect status before being traded to the Red Sox in August 2012.

    link is down right now but there is a soxprospects ranking archive.

    SoxProspects ranked Allen Webster slightly ahead of Rubby de la Rosa in April and June 2013 even though de la Rosa at the time did not meet the SoxPropsects' definition of prospect:

    http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm



    The soxprospects website gave an exception for RDLR, they explained it in one of their podcasts but I don't remember precisely why.  It did have something to do with his brief MLB service cut short by injury resulting in increased time back in the minors to rehab.  Plus he was rushed to LA.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Have you seen Webster? If he was the top ranked pitcher after Owens, why didn't he get the call instead of De La Rosa?

    Rubby de la Rosa may or may not have been ranked ahead of Allen Webster on Red Sox prospect lists if de la Rosa had not lost his prospect status before being traded to the Red Sox in August 2012.

    link is down right now but there is a soxprospects ranking archive.

    SoxProspects ranked Allen Webster slightly ahead of Rubby de la Rosa in April and June 2013 even though de la Rosa at the time did not meet the SoxPropsects' definition of prospect:

    http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm




    [object HTMLDivElement]   Whether one meets the pure definition of " prospect " is hardly relevant.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    Allen Webster has always reminded me of Seatte's Brandon Maurer, a same-age righthhander who also was taken in the late rounds of the 2008 draft. The Mariners have moved Maurer to the bullpen where Maurer has posted strong early returns, holding opponents to a .121/.171/.121/.293 line with 11 strikeouts in five appearances covering 9.2 innings.

    Perhaps Webster's future is in the bullpen.

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    Agreed. I would package Webster for a hitter who can play LF(right handed bat). The players the Sox should build around are: Pedroia, Ortiz, Xander, Betts, Marrero, Lester, De La Rosa, Henry Owns, Anthony Ranaudo and Christian Vazquez.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to hill55's comment:


    Allen Webster has always reminded me of Seatte's Brandon Maurer, a same-age righthhander who also was taken in the late rounds of the 2008 draft. The Mariners have moved Maurer to the bullpen where Maurer has posted strong early returns, holding opponents to a .121/.171/.121/.293 line with 11 strikeouts in five appearances covering 9.2 innings.


    Perhaps Webster's future is in the bullpen.






    Both right handers, similar build, similar pitch mix, although admittedly I know nothing about his mechanics and delivery etc.....But I don't think the Sox should move Webster to the pen just because the Mariners moved a guy there.


    When moving a guy into the bullpen there are few things that have to happen (for me)


    1.) his delivery, if a guy is going to last as a starter he needs an easy low effort repeatable delivery.


    2.) he needs to be able hold his velocity deep into games.  If a guy can't hold his stuff, but can't got at it in short bursts then he is made for the bullpen.


    3.) pitch mix.  If a guy has 2 good pitches and nothing else he might be better suited for the pen.  A pitcher should have at least 3 average pitches or better to be in the pen.


    Webster fits all three of these.  He has an easy delivery, he holds his velocity deep into games, and he has 4 pitches.  Webster has 2 average pitches that could be more, and 2 plus pitches.


    He has all the tools to start, his biggest issue has been command/control, which has eaten into his results. He's still no perfectionist with his control, but his command has taken huge steps forward this year (most people don't know the difference between command and control).  So while his future may be in the bullpen, so may Owens, Ranaudo, Barnes, RDLR, and Workmans future as well, it is way to early to convert him into the bullpen and he hasn't done anything this year to suggest such.


    That is the part that confuses me the most, Webster hasn't done anything this year to suggest bullpen arm so I'm perplexed as to why everyone thinks he is a bullpen arm.   He has the pure stuff to be a starter, with  better raw stuff than anyone in our system really, he has the package, and he has been showing improved results this year.  If he was going out there and lighting the other team up the first 3 innings then getting shelled afterwards then I would be the first one advocating bullpen arm, but that is just not the case.  I can't help but think people are basing this off of a 30 innings pitch sample size last year making his MLB debut.  As Boston fans we should know better than most that debuts can go either way, and guys need time.  Webster obviously needed more time and was sent back down to the minors.....and he's done nothing since returning to Pawtucket to hurt him from getting another chance at the rotation.


    Mark my words everyone....Webster WILL get another shot at the rotation this year.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from scottwad. Show scottwad's posts

    Re: Deven Marrero

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Agree with your assessment on Webster. I thought the discussion was to be about Marerro.

    In response to hill55's comment:

     

     

    Allen Webster has always reminded me of Seatte's Brandon Maurer, a same-age righthhander who also was taken in the late rounds of the 2008 draft. The Mariners have moved Maurer to the bullpen where Maurer has posted strong early returns, holding opponents to a .121/.171/.121/.293 line with 11 strikeouts in five appearances covering 9.2 innings.

     

    Perhaps Webster's future is in the bullpen.

     

     




     

     

    Both right handers, similar build, similar pitch mix, although admittedly I know nothing about his mechanics and delivery etc.....But I don't think the Sox should move Webster to the pen just because the Mariners moved a guy there.

     

    When moving a guy into the bullpen there are few things that have to happen (for me)

     

    1.) his delivery, if a guy is going to last as a starter he needs an easy low effort repeatable delivery.

     

    2.) he needs to be able hold his velocity deep into games.  If a guy can't hold his stuff, but can't got at it in short bursts then he is made for the bullpen.

     

    3.) pitch mix.  If a guy has 2 good pitches and nothing else he might be better suited for the pen.  A pitcher should have at least 3 average pitches or better to be in the pen.

     

    Webster fits all three of these.  He has an easy delivery, he holds his velocity deep into games, and he has 4 pitches.  Webster has 2 average pitches that could be more, and 2 plus pitches.

     

    He has all the tools to start, his biggest issue has been command/control, which has eaten into his results. He's still no perfectionist with his control, but his command has taken huge steps forward this year (most people don't know the difference between command and control).  So while his future may be in the bullpen, so may Owens, Ranaudo, Barnes, RDLR, and Workmans future as well, it is way to early to convert him into the bullpen and he hasn't done anything this year to suggest such.

     

    That is the part that confuses me the most, Webster hasn't done anything this year to suggest bullpen arm so I'm perplexed as to why everyone thinks he is a bullpen arm.   He has the pure stuff to be a starter, with  better raw stuff than anyone in our system really, he has the package, and he has been showing improved results this year.  If he was going out there and lighting the other team up the first 3 innings then getting shelled afterwards then I would be the first one advocating bullpen arm, but that is just not the case.  I can't help but think people are basing this off of a 30 innings pitch sample size last year making his MLB debut.  As Boston fans we should know better than most that debuts can go either way, and guys need time.  Webster obviously needed more time and was sent back down to the minors.....and he's done nothing since returning to Pawtucket to hurt him from getting another chance at the rotation.

     

    Mark my words everyone....Webster WILL get another shot at the rotation this year.




    scottwad24

     
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    Re: Deven Marrero

    This thread was suppose to be about Marrero. Watch NESN's piece on Marrero from this last week--you may come away being a believer this may be the Sox best SS hope since Nomar. I know we had Iggy but this kid may have the bat to go with the good field tag. Imagine a middle inf. from the same university?


    When counting our pitching blessings don't forget about Anthony Ranaudo, Stephen Wright  and the two kids from Florida Johnson and Fernandez--both left-handers and of course Henry Owens. That could be a pretty good 5 man rotation.


    Someplace along the way there is a list, ctredsox, alluded to rookie site. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a Depth Chart, position by position, at the Minor League level for the Sox?

     
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