RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2004Idiot. Show 2004Idiot's posts

    RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    Congratulations!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    Clemens, hmm. I guess it has been long enough.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    Pedy, YES.........  No on the Juicers !!!!!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    I wish the Sox had walked away from Clemens and Garciaparra like they walked away from the team at the end of their tenures here.

    Although there were different circumstances related to each, neither one left town without what I thought was burning bridges.

    Clemens milked his final Sox contract for 2 1/2 seasons and returned to being a Cy caliber pitcher during the final months of his Sox contract and the one he signed with Toronto. On top of that, there was an opportunity for him to return to Boston at the end of his career and he chose the Yankees over the Sox...NUFCED!


    Garciaparra's situation was a bit trickier...he got teed off at the Sox for trying to trade for AROD and trade him...ultimately leading to him quitting on the team during the beginning of the 2004 season. The fact that he quit on the team was enough to write him off for me.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you have any proof that Clemens "milked" his contract?

    Has there never been any other pitchers that went through some down years? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Do I have proof...only what I saw with my own two eyes...

    But let's see..during Clemens final contract with the Sox, he put on the most weight he ever had, snubbed his manager (Butch Hobson) in Spring Training...complained about having to carry his own bags in the airport...had close to a .500 record for 2 1/2 seasons...then magically in July of his final contract season he pitched lights out again and added a 2nd 20 strikeout performance against the Tigers in Detroit....coincidence or playing then for free agency??

    My money is on the 'Texas Con Man' (as described by the late Will McDonough of the Globe) playing for the new contract.

     

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedy, YES.........  No on the Juicers !!!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Pedro ..yes

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Or he simply had a slump.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah whatever Jimmy...convenient that he acted like a jerk when he slumped...and when he came out of it to pitch for a new contract!!

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    Just thinking about "JUICERS &  HOF "  !!!   "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE" as the "BIG O" thinks that our DRUG LAWS need to be RELAXED !!!    Tell that to that ACTOR that just died with a needle in his arm in a bath tub, oh yes 70 BAGS OF HOT STUFF in his room ????

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just thinking about "JUICERS &  HOF "  !!!   "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE" as the "BIG O" thinks that our DRUG LAWS need to be RELAXED !!!    Tell that to that ACTOR that just died with a needle in his arm in a bath tub, oh yes 70 BAGS OF HOT STUFF in his room ????

    [/QUOTE]


    I hate bringing politics to a Sports board...unlike Billy boy, but of course we all know Philip Seymour Hopkins death is Obama's fault...what a maroon!!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why do I keep seeing allegations that Nomar used PEDs? I don't remember reading anything that credibly suggested that he was a PED user. Is it just because he was an excellent offensive player during the PED years?

    [/QUOTE]

    The 2001 Sports Illustrated "shirtless" cover where it looked like he went from being shredded to a bubble boy over night (Obvious sign of steroid use) started the rumors. I remember people were blown away by how much he "blew up." Then he starting getting injuries where he literally ripped muscle off the bone, which is another huge sign of steroid use.  

    I don't think anyone in baseball at that time would ever try to deny that Nomar used steroids (Not just HGH), but that being said, in my opinion, he absolutely deserves to be in the Sox Hall of Fame, as he is arguably one of the top 5 biggest Sox fan favorites of all time, and his stats were off the charts for a long enough period.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedy, YES.........  No on the Juicers !!!!!

    [/QUOTE]
    sorry to disagree with you Bill. They are talking about the Red Sox Hall of Fame here. When Clemens was with the red sox he was totally clean and never weighed more than about 205-210 lbs. It was after he left boston that he did PEDS. He has this fans vote for the red sox HOF.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from HankukSox. Show HankukSox's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    Just thinking about "JUICERS &  HOF "  !!!   "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE" as the "BIG O" thinks that our DRUG LAWS need to be RELAXED !!!    Tell that to that ACTOR that just died with a needle in his arm in a bath tub, oh yes 70 BAGS OF HOT STUFF in his room ????

     



    Don't bring politics into the sports board.  I think people have told you that a million plus times.  By the way...  Maybe if the laws were relaxed, there would be more options to get someone help, before they die, instead of just the threat of jail time.

     

    As for the TOPIC....  I like the class.  And I've posted elsewhere before, that I am for the juicers getting into the baseball hall of fame, because they WERE part of baseball history.  But in this case I am not for Clemens getting in to the Sox hall of fame, juicer or not.  He was a good pitcher for the Sox, but I think his HoF legacy was built after Dan D let him walk (which I think is about the time he started juicing, or even in that year, when he suddenly picked up).  For the Sox he had some really good seasons, but nothing that makes him, in my mind a SOX hall of famer.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

     

     

    My very first game at Fenway was Clemens' return as a Blue Jay in 1997.  He gave up only one run and struck out 16 batters.  It was so strange to see him in another uniform besides the Red Sox.  I remember that game like it was yesterday.  But I doubt that Clemens remembers since he tends to "misremember" things.   LOL   Smile

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just thinking about "JUICERS &  HOF "  !!!   "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE" as the "BIG O" thinks that our DRUG LAWS need to be RELAXED !!!    Tell that to that ACTOR that just died with a needle in his arm in a bath tub, oh yes 70 BAGS OF HOT STUFF in his room ????

    [/QUOTE]


    I hate bringing politics to a Sports board...unlike Billy boy, but of course we all know Philip Seymour Hopkins death is Obama's fault...what a maroon!!

    [/QUOTE]Sorry, but you missed the point..... If the "BIG O" had his way, drug laws get relaxed and more & more people end up with needles in their arms....... 


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you have any proof that Clemens "milked" his contract?

    Has there never been any other pitchers that went through some down years? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Do I have proof...only what I saw with my own two eyes...

    But let's see..during Clemens final contract with the Sox, he put on the most weight he ever had, snubbed his manager (Butch Hobson) in Spring Training...complained about having to carry his own bags in the airport...had close to a .500 record for 2 1/2 seasons...then magically in July of his final contract season he pitched lights out again and added a 2nd 20 strikeout performance against the Tigers in Detroit....coincidence or playing then for free agency??

    My money is on the 'Texas Con Man' (as described by the late Will McDonough of the Globe) playing for the new contract.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I've been as hard on Clemens because of the PED stuff as anyone, but I also try to be fair.

    His attitude with Hobson is a fair criticism. The .500 record isn't completely fair because the Sox had lousy teams. The weight gain is only a little fair. Yes, he put on weight, but I always felt that he was the textbook case of a guy who reached his 30s and it took him some time to realize that what he did to stay in shape and be good in his 20s wasn't going to work in his 30s.

    The conventional wisdom is that Clemens was mediocre his last four years. So let's look at his last years in Boston.

    1993: 11-14, 4.46 ERA. That was the year he turned 30 and really was his first bad year. Whatever the reason, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because that was the first bad year of his career, especially when you see what he did going forward.

    1994: 9-7, 2.85. Was second in ERA, second in WAR for pitchers, second in K/9 IP, FIRST in fewest hits per nine innings, FIRST in adjusted ERA and third in WHIP. He was having a great year. Had just 24 starts because of the strike. W/O the strike, he would have had 10 more starts and could have ended up with about 15 wins.

    1995: 10-5, 4.18 ERA. It really wasn't a bad year. Had 23 starts because of the lockout, so with 10 more starts, he night have salvaged his ERA. Really, what killed his ERA were two horrifics starts in July (4 IP, 8 ER, 1.1 IP, 8 ER). In his other 21 starts, his ERA was 3.27. So overall, he was pretty good in 1995, basically a lot better than he's given credit for.

    1996: 10-13, 3.63 ERA. It's too simplistic to use the contract year thing. As I've shown -- in his previous two years, he was very good. Take out two starts and his ERA for his other 45 starts was right around 3.10. In 1996, his ERA was 4.03 for the first half, not terrible, especially for that era. Was just 3-8 because of no run support. Take out his two worst starts the first three months, and his first-half ERA was 3.53. He was great the second half -- 3.15, but that's more in line with how he pitched overall for the previous two years. It's a vast overstatement to say he magially started pitching better. He already was pitching pretty good. He pitched better all season than the 10-13 record would suggest.

    So Clemens might have had attitude issues, but I think what you see is a pitcher who reached 30, had a bad year (1993) and realized he had to start doing things differently to stay on top. His last three years were much better than given credit for. People like to whip out that .500 record for his last four years, ignore the fact that the worst year was the first of those last four years, which was his first bad year of his career, and also ignore that he pitched for some lousy or medicore teams, except for 1995.

    One last thing about 1994. He didn't get any Cy Youn votes, but is ERA was lower than everyone else who did and I already mentioned his other stats. He easily deserved votes. And had he gotten those last 10 starts, it would have been interesting to see how it played out. The votes focused too much that year on W-L records.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    By the way -- congrats all.

    I really don't have any problem with the Sox honoring all four. The Red Sox Hall is a different animal than the overall Hall of Fame.

    So with Clemens, I can look at what he did with the Red Sox and just that.

    As for Nomar, yeah, I think he was a PED guy with the Red Sox, but he's not going into the overall Hall and w/o anything other than my suspicians, I'll cut him some slack. Besides, he'll always have to live with knowing how he screwed up 2004 and missed out on what happened.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    ... If the "BIG O" had his way, drug laws get relaxed and more & more people end up with needles in their arms.......  

     

    ...and we'd stop paying $24K a year to keep pot smokers in prison. It's the fiscally conservative thing to do. It's the libertarian thing to do.

    But, becuase Obama wants it, it must be wrong, right?

     

    Besides, he wasn't shooting up maijuana.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to djcbuffum's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why do I keep seeing allegations that Nomar used PEDs? I don't remember reading anything that credibly suggested that he was a PED user. Is it just because he was an excellent offensive player during the PED years?

    [/QUOTE]

    The 2001 Sports Illustrated "shirtless" cover where it looked like he went from being shredded to a bubble boy over night (Obvious sign of steroid use) started the rumors. I remember people were blown away by how much he "blew up." Then he starting getting injuries where he literally ripped muscle off the bone, which is another huge sign of steroid use.  

    I don't think anyone in baseball at that time would ever try to deny that Nomar used steroids (Not just HGH), but that being said, in my opinion, he absolutely deserves to be in the Sox Hall of Fame, as he is arguably one of the top 5 biggest Sox fan favorites of all time, and his stats were off the charts for a long enough period.  

    [/QUOTE]

    So all we have are suppositions and innuendo? I'm not willing to convict on just that. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    As you shouldn't.  Publicly, that's probably all there is.  Privately, there are many people who will ask you if you are "serious" if you ask whether or not he did steroids.   

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

Share