RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    By the way -- congrats all.

    I really don't have any problem with the Sox honoring all four. The Red Sox Hall is a different animal than the overall Hall of Fame.

    So with Clemens, I can look at what he did with the Red Sox and just that.

    As for Nomar, yeah, I think he was a PED guy with the Red Sox, but he's not going into the overall Hall and w/o anything other than my suspicians, I'll cut him some slack. Besides, he'll always have to live with knowing how he screwed up 2004 and missed out on what happened.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly how did he "screw up".

    The Sox tried to trade for afraud and also tried to trade Nomar to the ChiSox and failed to get either completed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Whatever we think of A-Rod now, he hardly had that reputation then, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to phrase it like that. Nomar turned down a big contract, Manny was a headache back then -- first thing he ever said to John Henry after Henry bought the team and introduced himself to Manny was to complain about Boston and wanting out -- so the Sox tried to trade for a player considered to be the best in the game.

    Nomar sulked. Yes he had injuries, but if he put the business side of baseball aside and not been a dugout cancer (from all accounts now and at the time, so there's hardly revisionist history taking place), he might not have been traded and could have been apart of a great ending.

    Who's to say if it would have ended the same, but Nomar did play 43 games after the trade (Cabrera 58) and had better numbers than Cabrera with the Sox and after the trade, so there still could have been a great ending that year that Nomar could have been a part of.

    So yes, Nomar screwed up.  

    By they way, I didn't want the A-Rod trade. I never really liked him -- at least after he signed with the Rangers. I never begrudge a player from maximizing his value, but there still was something obsene about the Rangers' contract, especially considering the Mariners were an excellent team at the time and offered him a great contract too.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ... If the "BIG O" had his way, drug laws get relaxed and more & more people end up with needles in their arms.......  

     

    ...and we'd stop paying $24K a year to keep pot smokers in prison. It's the fiscally conservative thing to do. It's the libertarian thing to do.

    But, becuase Obama wants it, it must be wrong, right?

     

     +1

    But Bill can probably sleep in peace...although "the big O" has essentially admitted that the war on pot is senseless and unjust, I would not hold my breath for him to do anything about it.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    By the way -- congrats all.

    I really don't have any problem with the Sox honoring all four. The Red Sox Hall is a different animal than the overall Hall of Fame.

    So with Clemens, I can look at what he did with the Red Sox and just that.

    As for Nomar, yeah, I think he was a PED guy with the Red Sox, but he's not going into the overall Hall and w/o anything other than my suspicians, I'll cut him some slack. Besides, he'll always have to live with knowing how he screwed up 2004 and missed out on what happened.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Exactly how did he "screw up".

    The Sox tried to trade for afraud and also tried to trade Nomar to the ChiSox and failed to get either completed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Whatever we think of A-Rod now, he hardly had that reputation then, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to phrase it like that. Nomar turned down a big contract, Manny was a headache back then -- first thing he ever said to John Henry after Henry bought the team and introduced himself to Manny was to complain about Boston and wanting out -- so the Sox tried to trade for a player considered to be the best in the game.

    Nomar sulked. Yes he had injuries, but if he put the business side of baseball aside and not been a dugout cancer (from all accounts now and at the time, so there's hardly revisionist history taking place), he might not have been traded and could have been apart of a great ending.

    Who's to say if it would have ended the same, but Nomar did play 43 games after the trade (Cabrera 58) and had better numbers than Cabrera with the Sox and after the trade, so there still could have been a great ending that year that Nomar could have been a part of.

    So yes, Nomar screwed up.  

    By they way, I didn't want the A-Rod trade. I never really liked him -- at least after he signed with the Rangers. I never begrudge a player from maximizing his value, but there still was something obsene about the Rangers' contract, especially considering the Mariners were an excellent team at the time and offered him a great contract too.

    [/QUOTE]


    No, the team tried to trade for a replacement for him and then tried to trade him, did you expect him to be happy?

    The Sox screwed up, not him.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox celebrated their "screw up" by winning the World Series while disposing of their arch rival in the greatest comeback in baseball history along the way.  By the way, Nomar was a well below average defender at the time of the trade & I don't think they win it all without Cabrera's defense.

     

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    By the way -- congrats all.

    I really don't have any problem with the Sox honoring all four. The Red Sox Hall is a different animal than the overall Hall of Fame.

    So with Clemens, I can look at what he did with the Red Sox and just that.

    As for Nomar, yeah, I think he was a PED guy with the Red Sox, but he's not going into the overall Hall and w/o anything other than my suspicians, I'll cut him some slack. Besides, he'll always have to live with knowing how he screwed up 2004 and missed out on what happened.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Exactly how did he "screw up".

    The Sox tried to trade for afraud and also tried to trade Nomar to the ChiSox and failed to get either completed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Whatever we think of A-Rod now, he hardly had that reputation then, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to phrase it like that. Nomar turned down a big contract, Manny was a headache back then -- first thing he ever said to John Henry after Henry bought the team and introduced himself to Manny was to complain about Boston and wanting out -- so the Sox tried to trade for a player considered to be the best in the game.

    Nomar sulked. Yes he had injuries, but if he put the business side of baseball aside and not been a dugout cancer (from all accounts now and at the time, so there's hardly revisionist history taking place), he might not have been traded and could have been apart of a great ending.

    Who's to say if it would have ended the same, but Nomar did play 43 games after the trade (Cabrera 58) and had better numbers than Cabrera with the Sox and after the trade, so there still could have been a great ending that year that Nomar could have been a part of.

    So yes, Nomar screwed up.  

    By they way, I didn't want the A-Rod trade. I never really liked him -- at least after he signed with the Rangers. I never begrudge a player from maximizing his value, but there still was something obsene about the Rangers' contract, especially considering the Mariners were an excellent team at the time and offered him a great contract too.

    [/QUOTE]


    No, the team tried to trade for a replacement for him and then tried to trade him, did you expect him to be happy?

    The Sox screwed up, not him.

    [/QUOTE]

    They tried to trade him after he turned down their contract offer. So did you expect the Sox to just sit on their hands and either pay Nomar whatever he wanted or lose him w/o compensation?

    It's a business. Nomar had a right to not to sign if he felt he was worth more and the Sox were right to explore other options. And besides, the team tried to trade him, not his teammates. He still could have been a good teammate, but he thought only of his poor hurt feelings.

    And no -- the Sox didn't screw up. They traded him, won a W.S. and in the ensuing years, Nomar wasn't even worth the money they offered that Nomar turned down. What they screwed up in retrospect was the original offer.

    If you think earning less than he would have had he signed the Sox's offer and not being part a team that won a W.S. title is not screwing up, what would you call it?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    Nomar sulked. Yes he had injuries, but if he put the business side of baseball aside and not been a dugout cancer (from all accounts now and at the time, so there's hardly revisionist history taking place), he might not have been traded and could have been apart of a great ending.

    I recall the understanding was that Nomat had injured himself off the field, but then pretended it happened at ST. The Sox were gracious enough not to challenge it, and then Nomar turned down the big offer.

    I remember the day we traded Nomar: I told all my fellow Sox fans that the trade "was going to win us a ring" based on Cabrera's clearly superior defense at SS. (Most laughed at me.)

     

    Who's to say if it would have ended the same, but Nomar did play 43 games after the trade (Cabrera 58) and had better numbers than Cabrera with the Sox and after the trade, so there still could have been a great ending that year that Nomar could have been a part of.

    Nomar's SS defense was never great. It was horrible in 2004. Cabrera's defense helped carry us to the championship. His hitting was decent enough.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    As much as what happened with Clemens over the years- mostly post-Sox era, I have to credit him with opening my eyes to what it is like to have a dominant pitcher on the mound. Taking nothing away from el Tiante, Roger was a horse.

    A little personal anectdote: I used to go to the kitchen to get a beer or a snack or take a restroon break during the opposing team's at bats. Once Clemens pitched for the Sox, I started taking the game breaks during our ABs.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nomar sulked. Yes he had injuries, but if he put the business side of baseball aside and not been a dugout cancer (from all accounts now and at the time, so there's hardly revisionist history taking place), he might not have been traded and could have been apart of a great ending.

    I recall the understanding was that Nomat had injured himself off the field, but then pretended it happened at ST. The Sox were gracious enough not to challenge it, and then Nomar turned down the big offer.

    I remember the day we traded Nomar: I told all my fellow Sox fans that the trade "was going to win us a ring" based on Cabrera's clearly superior defense at SS. (Most laughed at me.)

     

    Who's to say if it would have ended the same, but Nomar did play 43 games after the trade (Cabrera 58) and had better numbers than Cabrera with the Sox and after the trade, so there still could have been a great ending that year that Nomar could have been a part of.

    Nomar's SS defense was never great. It was horrible in 2004. Cabrera's defense helped carry us to the championship. His hitting was decent enough.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cabrerea played good defense, but I don't think it was one of the deciding factors. Or put it this way, I think the Sox could have won with Nomar.

    Obviously, fielding percentage is a flawed defensive stat but it's worth noting:

    Cabrera with Sox: 491 Innings, 8 errors, 23 DP, .966 fielding, 147 assists, 233 chances

    Nomar with Sox: 311 innings, 6 errors, 17 DP, .957 fielding, 81 assists, 139 chances.

    Nomar after Sox: 364 innings, 3 errors, 17 DP, .982 fielding, 94 assists, 166 chances.

    Cabrera with the Sox might have been a slight upgrade over Nomar with the Sox, but Nomar post Sox might have been better than both. Only point is that had Nomar stayed and been happy, I think the Sox might have gained more overall, with him at SS.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    And moon, excellent point about the Sox not challenging Nomar's injury.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nomar sulked. Yes he had injuries, but if he put the business side of baseball aside and not been a dugout cancer (from all accounts now and at the time, so there's hardly revisionist history taking place), he might not have been traded and could have been apart of a great ending.

    I recall the understanding was that Nomat had injured himself off the field, but then pretended it happened at ST. The Sox were gracious enough not to challenge it, and then Nomar turned down the big offer.

    I remember the day we traded Nomar: I told all my fellow Sox fans that the trade "was going to win us a ring" based on Cabrera's clearly superior defense at SS. (Most laughed at me.)

     

    Who's to say if it would have ended the same, but Nomar did play 43 games after the trade (Cabrera 58) and had better numbers than Cabrera with the Sox and after the trade, so there still could have been a great ending that year that Nomar could have been a part of.

    Nomar's SS defense was never great. It was horrible in 2004. Cabrera's defense helped carry us to the championship. His hitting was decent enough.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cabrerea played good defense, but I don't think it was one of the deciding factors. Or put it this way, I think the Sox could have won with Nomar.

    Obviously, fielding percentage is a flawed defensive stat but it's worth noting:

    Cabrera with Sox: 491 Innings, 8 errors, 23 DP, .966 fielding, 147 assists, 233 chances

    Nomar with Sox: 311 innings, 6 errors, 17 DP, .957 fielding, 81 assists, 139 chances.

    Nomar after Sox: 364 innings, 3 errors, 17 DP, .982 fielding, 94 assists, 166 chances.

    Cabrera with the Sox might have been a slight upgrade over Nomar with the Sox, but Nomar post Sox might have been better than both. Only point is that had Nomar stayed and been happy, I think the Sox might have gained more overall, with him at SS.

    [/QUOTE]

    Theo Epstein was quoted as saying at the time that he didn't feel that the Sox could have won it all with the infield defense "as it was constituted" before the trade.  Obviously Doug Mientkiewicz was a part of it as well.  Defensive metrics, as all stats, are clearly flawed, but I don't think Nomar was in the same league at that point as Cabrera.  There weren't a lot of tears shed in that clubhouse when Nomar left, either.  Nomar was clearly miserable, he wasn't healthy and his defense was certainly a serious concern with the Front Office.  Obviously no one can say for sure, but I don't think they win it all without making that trade.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    Nomar's SS defense was never great. It was horrible in 2004. Cabrera's defense helped carry us to the championship. His hitting was decent enough.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cabrerea played good defense, but I don't think it was one of the deciding factors. Or put it this way, I think the Sox could have won with Nomar.

    Obviously, fielding percentage is a flawed defensive stat but it's worth noting:

    Cabrera with Sox: 491 Innings, 8 errors, 23 DP, .966 fielding, 147 assists, 233 chances

    Nomar with Sox: 311 innings, 6 errors, 17 DP, .957 fielding, 81 assists, 139 chances.

    Nomar after Sox: 364 innings, 3 errors, 17 DP, .982 fielding, 94 assists, 166 chances.

    Cabrera with the Sox might have been a slight upgrade over Nomar with the Sox, but Nomar post Sox might have been better than both. Only point is that had Nomar stayed and been happy, I think the Sox might have gained more overall, with him at SS.

     

    In 2004, Nomar was 27th out of 29 SSs with 650+ innings with a -15.9 UZR/150. Cabrera was 22nd at -5.3. Out of the 40 SSs with 1000+ innings from 2002-2004, here's how each placed:

    26) Cabrera  -1.5

    35) Nomar    -6.1

    I found it intersting that reportedly ARod would not agree to change positions and defer to Namar at SS, but would for Jeter- arguably the worst fielding SS in MLB since 2004.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Nomar's SS defense was never great. It was horrible in 2004. Cabrera's defense helped carry us to the championship. His hitting was decent enough.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cabrerea played good defense, but I don't think it was one of the deciding factors. Or put it this way, I think the Sox could have won with Nomar.

    Obviously, fielding percentage is a flawed defensive stat but it's worth noting:

    Cabrera with Sox: 491 Innings, 8 errors, 23 DP, .966 fielding, 147 assists, 233 chances

    Nomar with Sox: 311 innings, 6 errors, 17 DP, .957 fielding, 81 assists, 139 chances.

    Nomar after Sox: 364 innings, 3 errors, 17 DP, .982 fielding, 94 assists, 166 chances.

    Cabrera with the Sox might have been a slight upgrade over Nomar with the Sox, but Nomar post Sox might have been better than both. Only point is that had Nomar stayed and been happy, I think the Sox might have gained more overall, with him at SS.

     

    In 2004, Nomar was 27th out of 29 SSs with 650+ innings with a -15.9 UZR/150. Cabrera was 22nd at -5.3. Out of the 40 SSs with 1000+ innings from 2002-2004, here's how each placed:

    26) Cabrera  -1.5

    35) Nomar    -6.1

    I found it intersting that reportedly ARod would not agree to change positions and defer to Namar at SS, but would for Jeter- arguably the worst fielding SS in MLB since 2004.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not big on defensive metrics because at times, they seem to be all over the place with the same player from year to year. Maybe the difference defensively in 2004 between Cabrera and Nomar was greater than I think. I think it was just a slight improvement, not a big improvement. I'm not going to the mat over it one way or another.

    And while I like Cabrera and thought he did play a significant role the rest of the way, I do think that role is a bit overhyped.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife

    but i give him a "pass" because:  greatest championship of all time in all of sports.

     

    also, please remember that the front office machine was in full swing with the trade smear campaign.  i doubt nomah was as much of a "clubhouse cancer" as we were being led to believe.  jeter taking 3 strides after catching the ball and then "diving" into the stands didn't help.....it was great theatrics though.....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In 2004, Nomar was 27th out of 29 SSs with 650+ innings with a -15.9 UZR/150. Cabrera was 22nd at -5.3. Out of the 40 SSs with 1000+ innings from 2002-2004, here's how each placed:

    26) Cabrera  -1.5

    35) Nomar    -6.1

    I found it intersting that reportedly ARod would not agree to change positions and defer to Namar at SS, but would for Jeter- arguably the worst fielding SS in MLB since 2004.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not big on defensive metrics because at times, they seem to be all over the place with the same player from year to year. Maybe the difference defensively in 2004 between Cabrera and Nomar was greater than I think. I think it was just a slight improvement, not a big improvement. I'm not going to the mat over it one way or another.

    And while I like Cabrera and thought he did play a significant role the rest of the way, I do think that role is a bit overhyped.

     

    I hear ya, but persoanlly, I think Cabby was better defensively than the metrics showed and Nomar was worse. Just my opinion.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife

    but i give him a "pass" because:  greatest championship of all time in all of sports.

     

    also, please remember that the front office machine was in full swing with the trade smear campaign.  i doubt nomah was as much of a "clubhouse cancer" as we were being led to believe.  jeter taking 3 strides after catching the ball and then "diving" into the stands didn't help.....it was great theatrics though.....

    [/QUOTE]


    Please, it was maybe a step and a half. And what was he supposed to do, stop in his tracks while running at full speed?

    Your hatred clouds your view more often than not. It was a heck of a play.

    [/QUOTE]


    92.7% of the time the annoying stuff to yankees fans i type is actually true.  they just dont like to believe it.  this is one of them.  i count 3 steps, then a "leap" into the stands. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to slasher9's comment:

     

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife

    but i give him a "pass" because:  greatest championship of all time in all of sports.

     

    also, please remember that the front office machine was in full swing with the trade smear campaign.  i doubt nomah was as much of a "clubhouse cancer" as we were being led to believe.  jeter taking 3 strides after catching the ball and then "diving" into the stands didn't help.....it was great theatrics though.....

     




     

    Please, it was maybe a step and a half. And what was he supposed to do, stop in his tracks while running at full speed?

    Your hatred clouds your view more often than not. It was a heck of a play.




    92.7% of the time the annoying stuff to yankees fans i type is actually true.  they just dont like to believe it.  this is one of them.  i count 3 steps, then a "leap" into the stands. 

     

    [/QUOTE] i've always thought his only chance was a slide, he's running far too fast to try to turn up towards the larger portion of LF foul ground, and i think the wall is probably too low for a brace attempt


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    maybe jete...but i think he could have made the turn up the line pretty easy.  like running thru first and turning.  was this a FOX game or MSG game?  i remember being down at the shore watching it...they kept showing nomah sitting in the dugout after that play.  was great drama tv.....

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    maybe jete...but i think he could have made the turn up the line pretty easy.  like running thru first and turning.  was this a FOX game or MSG game?  i remember being down at the shore watching it...they kept showing nomah sitting in the dugout after that play.  was great drama tv.....

    [/QUOTE]

    They kept showing Nomar because he was literally the only player who was sitting on the bench and not on the dugout steps during that part of the game.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    maybe jete...but i think he could have made the turn up the line pretty easy.  like running thru first and turning.  was this a FOX game or MSG game?  i remember being down at the shore watching it...they kept showing nomah sitting in the dugout after that play.  was great drama tv.....

    i'm pretty sure it was a FOX game, because i remember spending the previous inning telling McCarver to shut the e(ff) up already :-)


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wish the Sox had walked away from Clemens and Garciaparra like they walked away from the team at the end of their tenures here.

    Although there were different circumstances related to each, neither one left town without what I thought was burning bridges.

    Clemens milked his final Sox contract for 2 1/2 seasons and returned to being a Cy caliber pitcher during the final months of his Sox contract and the one he signed with Toronto. On top of that, there was an opportunity for him to return to Boston at the end of his career and he chose the Yankees over the Sox...NUFCED!


    Garciaparra's situation was a bit trickier...he got teed off at the Sox for trying to trade for AROD and trade him...ultimately leading to him quitting on the team during the beginning of the 2004 season. The fact that he quit on the team was enough to write him off for me.

    [/QUOTE]


    Wasn't Nomar traded for a key piece of the 04 WS puzzle.  Did not the Red Sox go out and sign Pedro for more than Clemens wanted.

    Both these guys deserve to be the red sox club, the only Hall is in Cooperstown.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    Pedy, YES.........  No on the Juicers !!!!!




    If you are referring to Roger he was found not guilty of perjury charges in a court of law.  The reason most of these roid allegations don't stand up is: the mlb chain of custody on the tests are always broken.

    The person accusing Clemens was not much more credible than jared remy who says he sold roids to an aide of David Ortiz.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you have any proof that Clemens "milked" his contract?

    Has there never been any other pitchers that went through some down years? 



    Do I have proof...only what I saw with my own two eyes...

    But let's see..during Clemens final contract with the Sox, he put on the most weight he ever had, snubbed his manager (Butch Hobson) in Spring Training...complained about having to carry his own bags in the airport...had close to a .500 record for 2 1/2 seasons...then magically in July of his final contract season he pitched lights out again and added a 2nd 20 strikeout performance against the Tigers in Detroit....coincidence or playing then for free agency??

    My money is on the 'Texas Con Man' (as described by the late Will McDonough of the Globe) playing for the new contract.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    At the time I thought the bag comment made Clemens a diva.  Compared to today's athletes he was a construction worker.  Most of Clemen's career he flew commercial airlines and did not have people pre-checking him into hotel rooms.   He never got on twitter and complained about writers.  His 20 game strike out, all the reporters left fenway early to go to the celtic's game and there were not many fans in the stands.

    Some people do get stronger as they get older without roids. 

    I'm glad Roger was a red sox and was sorry he left.  If John Henry had owned the team then, he would have made sure that Roger stay in Boston for his whole career.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At the time I thought the bag comment made Clemens a diva.  Compared to today's athletes he was a construction worker.  Most of Clemen's career he flew commercial airlines and did not have people pre-checking him into hotel rooms.   He never got on twitter and complained about writers.  His 20 game strike out, all the reporters left fenway early to go to the celtic's game and there were not many fans in the stands.

    Some people do get stronger as they get older without roids. 

    I'm glad Roger was a red sox and was sorry he left.  If John Henry had owned the team then, he would have made sure that Roger stay in Boston for his whole career.

    [/QUOTE]

    Steven, you are talking about his 1st 20 K game against the Mariners, that was in May of 1986...the year the Celtics were heading for a championship with one of their most entertaining teams ever! Yes, I too flipped the channel to watch the C's and caught the tail end of Clemens gem.

    However, I was speaking about his 2nd 20K game against the Tigers in Detroit, and the TCM had just returned to being the ace pitcher we saw in years past, and just in time to head into free agency. The writers were all there to witness this one.

    If he took 'roids it might have started during his final months in Boston and continued when he headed to Toronto and NY...I am speculating on this but wouldn't put it past Clemens.

     
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