RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    In response to JIMMYPROFFER's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you have any proof that Clemens "milked" his contract?

    Has there never been any other pitchers that went through some down years? 



    Do I have proof...only what I saw with my own two eyes...

    But let's see..during Clemens final contract with the Sox, he put on the most weight he ever had, snubbed his manager (Butch Hobson) in Spring Training...complained about having to carry his own bags in the airport...had close to a .500 record for 2 1/2 seasons...then magically in July of his final contract season he pitched lights out again and added a 2nd 20 strikeout performance against the Tigers in Detroit....coincidence or playing then for free agency??

    My money is on the 'Texas Con Man' (as described by the late Will McDonough of the Globe) playing for the new contract.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    At the time I thought the bag comment made Clemens a diva.  Compared to today's athletes he was a construction worker.  Most of Clemen's career he flew commercial airlines and did not have people pre-checking him into hotel rooms.   He never got on twitter and complained about writers.  His 20 game strike out, all the reporters left fenway early to go to the celtic's game and there were not many fans in the stands.

    Some people do get stronger as they get older without roids. 

    I'm glad Roger was a red sox and was sorry he left.  If John Henry had owned the team then, he would have made sure that Roger stay in Boston for his whole career.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At the time I thought the bag comment made Clemens a diva.  Compared to today's athletes he was a construction worker.  Most of Clemen's career he flew commercial airlines and did not have people pre-checking him into hotel rooms.   He never got on twitter and complained about writers.  His 20 game strike out, all the reporters left fenway early to go to the celtic's game and there were not many fans in the stands.

    Some people do get stronger as they get older without roids. 

    I'm glad Roger was a red sox and was sorry he left.  If John Henry had owned the team then, he would have made sure that Roger stay in Boston for his whole career.

    [/QUOTE]

    Steven, you are talking about his 1st 20 K game against the Mariners, that was in May of 1986...the year the Celtics were heading for a championship with one of their most entertaining teams ever! Yes, I too flipped the channel to watch the C's and caught the tail end of Clemens gem.

    However, I was speaking about his 2nd 20K game against the Tigers in Detroit, and the TCM had just returned to being the ace pitcher we saw in years past, and just in time to head into free agency. The writers were all there to witness this one.

    If he took 'roids it might have started during his final months in Boston and continued when he headed to Toronto and NY...I am speculating on this but wouldn't put it past Clemens.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    Pedro, Nomar, and yes, Clemens belong in the hall. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings about them, these are three of the greatest Red Sox of any era. No complaints here.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedy, YES.........  No on the Juicers !!!!!

    [/QUOTE]


    If you are referring to Roger he was gound not guilty of perjury charges in a court of law.  The reason most of these roid allegations don't stand up is: the mlb chain of custody on the tests are always broken.

    The person accusing Clemens was not much more credible than jared remy who says he sold roids to an aide of David Ortiz.

    [/QUOTE]I HEAR you, but Roger has S!!T-BUM written all over him .....  Can you imagine shooting up the wife toooooo !!


     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At the time I thought the bag comment made Clemens a diva.  Compared to today's athletes he was a construction worker.  Most of Clemen's career he flew commercial airlines and did not have people pre-checking him into hotel rooms.   He never got on twitter and complained about writers.  His 20 game strike out, all the reporters left fenway early to go to the celtic's game and there were not many fans in the stands.

    Some people do get stronger as they get older without roids. 

    I'm glad Roger was a red sox and was sorry he left.  If John Henry had owned the team then, he would have made sure that Roger stay in Boston for his whole career.

    [/QUOTE]

    Steven, you are talking about his 1st 20 K game against the Mariners, that was in May of 1986...the year the Celtics were heading for a championship with one of their most entertaining teams ever! Yes, I too flipped the channel to watch the C's and caught the tail end of Clemens gem.

    However, I was speaking about his 2nd 20K game against the Tigers in Detroit, and the TCM had just returned to being the ace pitcher we saw in years past, and just in time to head into free agency. The writers were all there to witness this one.

    If he took 'roids it might have started during his final months in Boston and continued when he headed to Toronto and NY...I am speculating on this but wouldn't put it past Clemens.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, the first game.  I cannot blame the writers for leaving the game, the C's rocked in those days.  From what I understand  they rushed backed to fenway.

    Also, I was a huge Butch Hobson fan and loved the way he was the first one out of the dugout during a fight.  But we all know now that Butch had a nasty little habit and most of the players knew about it.  If Roger disrespected Butch, most likely it was because Butch's head or in this case nose, was not always in the game.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedy, YES.........  No on the Juicers !!!!!

    [/QUOTE]


    If you are referring to Roger he was gound not guilty of perjury charges in a court of law.  The reason most of these roid allegations don't stand up is: the mlb chain of custody on the tests are always broken.

    The person accusing Clemens was not much more credible than jared remy who says he sold roids to an aide of David Ortiz.

    [/QUOTE]I HEAR you, but Roger has S!!T-BUM written all over him .....  Can you imagine shooting up the wife toooooo !!


    [/QUOTE]


    You are getting into particulars of the trial which I am not sure if Roger admitted to.  All I care about is how he performed on the field and his involvement in The Jimmy Fund and with Dana Farber.  Did Roger ever say he was shutting it down when the team was out of it?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    And while I like Cabrera and thought he did play a significant role the rest of the way, I do think that role is a bit overhyped.

    One other note:

    We ended up getting 2 picks when Cabrera was lost to free agency- one was Ellsbury and the other was Lowrie.

    Now, we will get a pick for losing Ellsbury, so in a way, that Nomar trade is still giving and giving!

    (Question: after the trade, did any team get a pick for losing Nomar to free agency?)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And while I like Cabrera and thought he did play a significant role the rest of the way, I do think that role is a bit overhyped.

    One other note:

    We ended up getting 2 picks when Cabrera was lost to free agency- one was Ellsbury and the other was Lowrie.

    Now, we will get a pick for losing Ellsbury, so in a way, that Nomar trade is still giving and giving!

    (Question: after the trade, did any team get a pick for losing Nomar to free agency?)

    [/QUOTE]


    Moon...we just lost Ellsbury, and Lowrie two years back, so how does the trade continue to keep giving especially when we have no idea who the player we'll get for Ellsbury's pick will be and whether he'll ever even make it to the majors?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And while I like Cabrera and thought he did play a significant role the rest of the way, I do think that role is a bit overhyped.

    One other note:

    We ended up getting 2 picks when Cabrera was lost to free agency- one was Ellsbury and the other was Lowrie.

    Now, we will get a pick for losing Ellsbury, so in a way, that Nomar trade is still giving and giving!

    (Question: after the trade, did any team get a pick for losing Nomar to free agency?)

    [/QUOTE]


    Moon...we just lost Ellsbury, and Lowrie two years back, so how does the trade continue to keep giving especially when we have no idea who the player we'll get for Ellsbury's pick will be and whether he'll ever even make it to the majors?

    [/QUOTE]

    My point was that even after we lost Cabrera after the Nomar trade, we got about 6 years out of Ellsbury, a few years out of Lowrie, and a possibility we might get something out of the draft choice we get for losing Jacoby.

    Even if the draft pick never makes it, we made out bigtime on the deal.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And while I like Cabrera and thought he did play a significant role the rest of the way, I do think that role is a bit overhyped.

    One other note:

    We ended up getting 2 picks when Cabrera was lost to free agency- one was Ellsbury and the other was Lowrie.

    Now, we will get a pick for losing Ellsbury, so in a way, that Nomar trade is still giving and giving!

    (Question: after the trade, did any team get a pick for losing Nomar to free agency?)

    [/QUOTE]


    Moon...we just lost Ellsbury, and Lowrie two years back, so how does the trade continue to keep giving especially when we have no idea who the player we'll get for Ellsbury's pick will be and whether he'll ever even make it to the majors?

    [/QUOTE]

    My point was that even after we lost Cabrera after the Nomar trade, we got about 6 years out of Ellsbury, a few years out of Lowrie, and a possibility we might get something out of the draft choice we get for losing Jacoby.

    Even if the draft pick never makes it, we made out bigtime on the deal.

    [/QUOTE]


    I understand, but my point is we are likely not going to make up for the loss of Ellsbury, especially to NY...we got Melancon for Lowrie who turned into Hanrahan...in other words, we got nothing!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: RedSox announce Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra and Joe Castiglione selected for team HOF

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And while I like Cabrera and thought he did play a significant role the rest of the way, I do think that role is a bit overhyped.

    One other note:

    We ended up getting 2 picks when Cabrera was lost to free agency- one was Ellsbury and the other was Lowrie.

    Now, we will get a pick for losing Ellsbury, so in a way, that Nomar trade is still giving and giving!

    (Question: after the trade, did any team get a pick for losing Nomar to free agency?)

    [/QUOTE]


    Moon...we just lost Ellsbury, and Lowrie two years back, so how does the trade continue to keep giving especially when we have no idea who the player we'll get for Ellsbury's pick will be and whether he'll ever even make it to the majors?

    [/QUOTE]

    My point was that even after we lost Cabrera after the Nomar trade, we got about 6 years out of Ellsbury, a few years out of Lowrie, and a possibility we might get something out of the draft choice we get for losing Jacoby.

    Even if the draft pick never makes it, we made out bigtime on the deal.

    [/QUOTE]


    I understand, but my point is we are likely not going to make up for the loss of Ellsbury, especially to NY...we got Melancon for Lowrie who turned into Hanrahan...in other words, we got nothing!

    [/QUOTE]

    This was about what we got for Nomar: A ring with Cabrera, 6 years from Ellsbury, a few years from Lowrie and a future draft pick.

    This was not about the draft pick for Ellsbury. Of course that is likely to be a loss, but the Nomar trade was a huge plus. 

     

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