10 key changes before next season

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    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    Sure get rid of BV, but do you make sure that Pedroia and the other rats agree to the choice of the new manager so they don't quit on the next manager too. This team lacks leadership more then anything! Too many over paid under achievers on the sox and I think(hope) ownership see's that now.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]The Sox need to bring back Ortiz until he definitely shows he's washed up. He was carrying the offense all year and had one of the best OPS' in the league. When he got hurt, he was in the top five in HR, RBI, BA, SLG, OPS. That's not easily replaced. Look at the 'slugs' the Sox have had at DH since he got hurt. And I don't want to hear crp about teams don't pay $15M for DHs. He's not getting paid $15M because he plays DH. He gets paid that kind of money because he's been a 30-plus home run, 100-RBI and top 5 OPS guy, and teams certainly pay $15M for that kind of production regardless of where they play. The last three weeks or so should be Exhibit A on why the Sox need him back.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Hey roy,

    I'm a huge Papi fan but this team "moving forward" needs guys that actually want to be here and play hard all season.  Papi has had a great season but I have to question where his head and heart is today regarding the injury and playing for Boston. 

    If his faith is still in Boston and we can afford him I'm fine with keeping Papi.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : Hey roy, I'm a huge Papi fan but this team "moving forward" needs guys that actually want to be here and play hard all season.  Papi has had a great season but I have to question where his head and heart is today regarding the injury and playing for Boston.  If his faith is still in Boston and we can afford him I'm fine with keeping Papi.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    You're creating issues where there are none. Ortiz has always played hard and has nothing to gain by sitting out right now if he were able to play. In fact, he loses the longer he's out.

    Ortiz has always let it be known he wants to play in Boston. There's nothing wrong with moving with young players but still having that veteran link to championship teams.

    Yes, Ortiz has played the "disrespect" card at times over the past couple of years over his contract, but it never was anything that lingered nor affected his play.

    The Sox should bring him back. They have plenty of other issues that even if they overpay, it's one less issue. I'd give him a two-year deal that has a games played requirement that will trigger the second year.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    Hey  Softy,
    Ryan Braun, "The Hebrew Hammer", is having just as good a year this season, as he had last season.
    He's doing it without Prince Fielder hitting behind him.
    I think he's proven cynics like you are full of _hit up to your eyeballs.
    Same guy who wants to trade half the team for a bum, who is a headcase with lower HR and RBI than Mike Aviles.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : So, Roy, I guess this means you've changed your "spend the money elsewhere on pitching" position. Ortiz is the only long term Red Sox player who has produced at a league high level, every year of his contracts.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure what the he!! you're talking about but I've always advocated signing Ortiz, and I was one of the few who stood by him during the dark days of April and May of 2009 and April of 2010.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    They'll be just as bad next year. But the sell out streak will continue.
     
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    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    I notice your list doesn't mention Pedroia.

    Does that mean Dustin gets to be 2B, manager, 3rd base coach, cry-baby, color commentator, owner, chief of grounds crew, therapist, and boston globe columnist again next year?
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]#3....why wait?
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]



    HATER !!!!!!  Kiss
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : You're creating issues where there are none. Ortiz has always played hard and has nothing to gain by sitting out right now if he were able to play. In fact, he loses the longer he's out. Ortiz has always let it be known he wants to play in Boston. There's nothing wrong with moving with young players but still having that veteran link to championship teams. Yes, Ortiz has played the "disrespect" card at times over the past couple of years over his contract, but it never was anything that lingered nor affected his play. The Sox should bring him back. They have plenty of other issues that even if they overpay, it's one less issue. I'd give him a two-year deal that has a games played requirement that will trigger the second year.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    roy,

    I'm not really trying to create anything just the fact Papi has shown his displeasure in the past.  I realize Papi's worth to the club but one of our glaring weaknesses for the past few years are guys that can't make it through an entire season without spending time on the DL.  Another is the drama that surrounds the team when guys can't just play the game and stop worrying about Bobby.

    If Papi comes cheap I agree with keeping him but I'm also not against wiping all the drama from the clubhouse and moving on if we can utilize the cash to our advantage.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]The Sox need to bring back Ortiz until he definitely shows he's washed up. He was carrying the offense all year and had one of the best OPS' in the league. When he got hurt, he was in the top five in HR, RBI, BA, SLG, OPS. That's not easily replaced. Look at the 'slugs' the Sox have had at DH since he got hurt. And I don't want to hear crp about teams don't pay $15M for DHs. He's not getting paid $15M because he plays DH. He gets paid that kind of money because he's been a 30-plus home run, 100-RBI and top 5 OPS guy, and teams certainly pay $15M for that kind of production regardless of where they play. The last three weeks or so should be Exhibit A on why the Sox need him back.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    Thank you, Roy.  I dont get what about this is so hard to grasp.  Wanting to jettison Ortiz is nothing but youth worshipping.  
     
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    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : roy, I'm not really trying to create anything just the fact Papi has shown his displeasure in the past.  I realize Papi's worth to the club but one of our glaring weaknesses for the past few years are guys that can't make it through an entire season without spending time on the DL.  Another is the drama that surrounds the team when guys can't just play the game and stop worrying about Bobby. If Papi comes cheap I agree with keeping him but I'm also not against wiping all the drama from the clubhouse and moving on if we can utilize the cash to our advantage.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    He's worth retaining even if he doesnt come cheap.  #3 hitters capable of .300, 30 HR, 100RBI's are worth 15 - 20M yr, even if they are DHs.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]As our options stand today, this is what I would like to see next season although not necessarily in this order.  #1 At the very least guys like Dice, Josh, Jenks, Lackey, Punto, Aviles, Valencia and Padilla gone one way or another.  I say dump as much salary and "head cases" as possible.  Do we give CC one more season/surgery before finding him a new home?  Maybe, unless we can package him along with a couple top prospects for a reliable OF like Braun.  #2 Let Papi walk to save the money.  At this point is he really hurt or just unhappy like a few others?  Time to move on from all the drama #3 Bobby V. replaced, it has to happen to make these guys play harder.   #4 Whoever plays better between Iggy or Ciriaco at SS starts, the loser ends up our utility guy but stays in the bigs.  #5  Bradley brought up before the end of   Jacoby's contract.  We won't get much for Ells in a trade because Boras would be in the picture shortly after. #6 Lav and Salty at catcher to start the season with Lav also splitting time at DH with Gomez to save Papi's money for pitching.  They both have good splits and should give us some quality starts. #7 Keep Ross in RF,   he has earned his stay in Boston   for   another year at least . #8  Package   some offensive   prospects , along with Bard   to the Mariners for Walker , Hultzen or another top pitching prospect from another team to pair with Barnes in a year or two. #9 Sign, or trade for at least  " one " top flight starter   but give Lester more time to rebound   along side   Clay and   Doub.  Maybe keep guys like Cook, Morales, Aceves and Miller around as well.   #10 Most important, start the season with " hungry youths" and new attitude towards winning. This should begin with Pede and AGon. Kids like Barnes, Bogaerts and Bradley should be the three prospects we protect most if possible. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Hard to get past your first item

    Crawford and 2 top prospects for Bruan?  Throw in Will Middlebrooks, Ryan Lavarnway, and Clay Buchholtz and then....hmmmm well.......maybe...wait.........who exactly would those top 2 prospects be?  Iglessias?  Now that's funny.........
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]As our options stand today, this is what I would like to see next season although not necessarily in this order.  #1 At the very least guys like Dice, Josh, Jenks, Lackey, Punto, Aviles, Valencia and Padilla gone one way or another.  I say dump as much salary and "head cases" as possible.  Do we give CC one more season/surgery before finding him a new home?  Maybe, unless we can package him along with a couple top prospects for a reliable OF like Braun.  #2 Let Papi walk to save the money.  At this point is he really hurt or just unhappy like a few others?  Time to move on from all the drama #3 Bobby V. replaced, it has to happen to make these guys play harder.   #4 Whoever plays better between Iggy or Ciriaco at SS starts, the loser ends up our utility guy but stays in the bigs.  #5  Bradley brought up before the end of   Jacoby's contract.  We won't get much for Ells in a trade because Boras would be in the picture shortly after. #6 Lav and Salty at catcher to start the season with Lav also splitting time at DH with Gomez to save Papi's money for pitching.  They both have good splits and should give us some quality starts. #7 Keep Ross in RF,   he has earned his stay in Boston   for   another year at least . #8  Package   some offensive   prospects , along with Bard   to the Mariners for Walker , Hultzen or another top pitching prospect from another team to pair with Barnes in a year or two. #9 Sign, or trade for at least  " one " top flight starter   but give Lester more time to rebound   along side   Clay and   Doub.  Maybe keep guys like Cook, Morales, Aceves and Miller around as well.   #10 Most important, start the season with " hungry youths" and new attitude towards winning. This should begin with Pede and AGon. Kids like Barnes, Bogaerts and Bradley should be the three prospects we protect most if possible. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Gomez is going to be the DH?  The man who replaces the greatest DH ever?  A 2 time WS hero?  A team with a 195 million dollar payroll?  The most important offensive position in the AL...Gomez??
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]As our options stand today, this is what I would like to see next season although not necessarily in this order.  #1 At the very least guys like Dice, Josh, Jenks, Lackey, Punto, Aviles, Valencia and Padilla gone one way or another.  I say dump as much salary and "head cases" as possible.  Do we give CC one more season/surgery before finding him a new home?  Maybe, unless we can package him along with a couple top prospects for a reliable OF like Braun.  #2 Let Papi walk to save the money.  At this point is he really hurt or just unhappy like a few others?  Time to move on from all the drama #3 Bobby V. replaced, it has to happen to make these guys play harder.   #4 Whoever plays better between Iggy or Ciriaco at SS starts, the loser ends up our utility guy but stays in the bigs.  #5  Bradley brought up before the end of   Jacoby's contract.  We won't get much for Ells in a trade because Boras would be in the picture shortly after. #6 Lav and Salty at catcher to start the season with Lav also splitting time at DH with Gomez to save Papi's money for pitching.  They both have good splits and should give us some quality starts. #7 Keep Ross in RF,   he has earned his stay in Boston   for   another year at least . #8  Package   some offensive   prospects , along with Bard   to the Mariners for Walker , Hultzen or another top pitching prospect from another team to pair with Barnes in a year or two. #9 Sign, or trade for at least  " one " top flight starter   but give Lester more time to rebound   along side   Clay and   Doub.  Maybe keep guys like Cook, Morales, Aceves and Miller around as well.   #10 Most important, start the season with " hungry youths" and new attitude towards winning. This should begin with Pede and AGon. Kids like Barnes, Bogaerts and Bradley should be the three prospects we protect most if possible. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Bard in a deal?  Would you take him in any deal right now for one of your prospects?  Barnes is our future to having young cheap controllable pitching.......
     
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    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    Sounds pretty damn good to me.
     
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    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : Thank you, Roy.  I dont get what about this is so hard to grasp.  Wanting to jettison Ortiz is nothing but youth worshipping.  
    Posted by Drewski5[/QUOTE]

    I want Papi back as much as anyone, but I can see wanting to spend the money on pitching instead as a bigger reason than "youth worship".
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]As our options stand today, this is what I would like to see next season although not necessarily in this order.  #1 At the very least guys like Dice, Josh, Jenks, Lackey, Punto, Aviles, Valencia and Padilla gone one way or another.  I say dump as much salary and "head cases" as possible.  Do we give CC one more season/surgery before finding him a new home?  Maybe, unless we can package him along with a couple top prospects for a reliable OF like Braun.  #2 Let Papi walk to save the money.  At this point is he really hurt or just unhappy like a few others?  Time to move on from all the drama #3 Bobby V. replaced, it has to happen to make these guys play harder.   #4 Whoever plays better between Iggy or Ciriaco at SS starts, the loser ends up our utility guy but stays in the bigs.  #5  Bradley brought up before the end of   Jacoby's contract.  We won't get much for Ells in a trade because Boras would be in the picture shortly after. #6 Lav and Salty at catcher to start the season with Lav also splitting time at DH with Gomez to save Papi's money for pitching.  They both have good splits and should give us some quality starts. #7 Keep Ross in RF,   he has earned his stay in Boston   for   another year at least . #8  Package   some offensive   prospects , along with Bard   to the Mariners for Walker , Hultzen or another top pitching prospect from another team to pair with Barnes in a year or two. #9 Sign, or trade for at least  " one " top flight starter   but give Lester more time to rebound   along side   Clay and   Doub.  Maybe keep guys like Cook, Morales, Aceves and Miller around as well.   #10 Most important, start the season with " hungry youths" and new attitude towards winning. This should begin with Pede and AGon. Kids like Barnes, Bogaerts and Bradley should be the three prospects we protect most if possible. 
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    OK who can you sign?  Have you seen the FA list?  Who can you deal for?  What do you have to get it?  You said trade Barnes and now you want to keep him?

    Very confusing..................

    The key thing is to dump as much dead weight as possible to free up some money.

    Then determine the 1-2 guys who have to go to fix the culture.

    Then find the right manager and coaches.

    Then, turn to to the kids....and then start making smaller, low profile trades - you do that by good scouting - scouts that are able to see something in a player that no one else can - that way you get them cheap (ie for lesser players)......players to be traded don't have to be your top prospects but surpluss guys (Sweeney, Nava, Shoppach, Aviles, etc and mid level prospects) - remember we don't need to put a King Felix package together - we are looking to acquire the Billy Mueller's and Bronson Arroyo's of the world......

    Then, fill in the gaps with Free Agents (via the money you saved from the salary dumps)...

    One final note is that the players I add, I want to find leaders.  I'd try and keep Ross for that reason.  But it's almost like we are the 87 Dodgers and we need to add our Kirk Gibson - not the best players by far, not even in the top 20 - but he turned that team around.  That's what we need. 
     
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    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : He's worth retaining even if he doesnt come cheap.  #3 hitters capable of .300, 30 HR, 100RBI's are worth 15 - 20M yr, even if they are DHs.
    Posted by Drewski5[/QUOTE]

    Hey Drewski,

    I agree "on paper" we need Papi's bat if he does in fact want to stay, but I have a question for you.  Say we give Papi a three year contract around 15mil per year with the last season being a team option.  If everything goes as planned but we can't dump any other significant salaries like Josh, Lackey or CC my guess is we may have 25/28mil to spend on upgrades.

    What would you do with this money to put our team back on track?   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to 10 key changes before next season : OK who can you sign?  Have you seen the FA list?  Who can you deal for?  What do you have to get it?  You said trade Barnes and now you want to keep him? Very confusing.................. The key thing is to dump as much dead weight as possible to free up some money. Then determine the 1-2 guys who have to go to fix the culture. Then find the right manager and coaches. Then, turn to to the kids....and then start making smaller, low profile trades - you do that by good scouting - scouts that are able to see something in a player that no one else can - that way you get them cheap (ie for lesser players)......players to be traded don't have to be your top prospects but surpluss guys (Sweeney, Nava, Shoppach, Aviles, etc and mid level prospects) - remember we don't need to put a King Felix package together - we are looking to acquire the Billy Mueller's and Bronson Arroyo's of the world...... Then, fill in the gaps with Free Agents (via the money you saved from the salary dumps)... One final note is that the players I add, I want to find leaders.  I'd try and keep Ross for that reason.  But it's almost like we are the 87 Dodgers and we need to add our Kirk Gibson - not the best players by far, not even in the top 20 - but he turned that team around.  That's what we need. 
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    The key is dumping salary and hoping guys like Papi, Ells and others don't land on the DL again for any length of time because it's killed us along with poor pitching.  Otherwise we may have 25/28mil to upgrade a club that definately needs help..

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : The key is dumping salary and hoping guys like Papi, Ells and others don't land on the DL again for any length of time because it's killed us along with poor pitching.  Otherwise we may have 25/28mil to upgrade a club that definately needs help..
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Well, Papi may be gone; that's part of the freeing up money thing

    Ellsbury - it's a double edged-sword.  If he has a repeat of 2012 in 2013 you can resign him but if he does 2011 then he's gone.  2011 helps you win, 2012 does not......

    DL is tough to predict but we must stay away from the Andrew Bailey's of the world!!!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 10 key changes before next season

    In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 10 key changes before next season : Well, Papi may be gone; that's part of the freeing up money thing Ellsbury - it's a double edged-sword.  If he has a repeat of 2012 in 2013 you can resign him but if he does 2011 then he's gone.  2011 helps you win, 2012 does not...... DL is tough to predict but we must stay away from the Andrew Bailey's of the world!!!
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    We definately can't count on this bunch to stay off the DL, or pitchers like Josh, Lackey and Lester to rebound so its a tough task if we tie Papi in for two or three more years for sure.
     
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