2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from udontnojack. Show udontnojack's posts

    2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    got to be worst record in baseball.probably,also close to bottom in hitting with runners in scoring position.
    clutch hitting obviuosly not there.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfanmoncton. Show redsoxfanmoncton's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    it is called depth
    guess if they go any deeper, they will be between Toronto and Baltimore
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all





    Seriously? You cannot make up a stat like that. That's terrible.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from udontnojack. Show udontnojack's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]Seriously? You cannot make up a stat like that. That's terrible.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    posted by fox during 8th inning of yesterdays game.i couldn't believe it either
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    It looks bad, but is it?  What is the average?  What are the Rays' and Yankees' record in such games?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from plinny. Show plinny's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In professional baseball often times the manager will make a "move" replacing a pitcher or sending a pinch hitter to bat. The execution of these "moves" ( or lack thereof) often impact the outcome of the game.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tetonman50. Show tetonman50's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]It looks bad, but is it?  What is the average?  What are the Rays' and Yankees' record in such games?
    Posted by SonicsMonksLyresVicars[/QUOTE]
    That's a great question!!!   Without trying to actually looking that info up ( I am sure there are plenty of posters here who know that answer) I can certainly say it seems to me that the Yankee's record has to be far better that way.......
     
       Being a Sox fan for over 55 years it just has always seemed that somehow the Yankees have historically managed so many times to pull a game out in late innings. This year being no different.
       In fact it was this particular statistic (2-56) that caused me to suggest a week or so ago that the Sox lacked a "winning attitude". 
       Maybe it's unfair to say they don't have a "winning attitude", but clearly it seems they don't know how to maunfacture a run or two when they need to come from behind late in a game to tie, or go ahead.  
        I am far less impressed with games they blow someone out in by 10 runs no matter how good the opposing team or pitcher is, then I am concerned that they just seem to be unable to score one or two runs at key times late in a game.
      
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    apparently we have the intestinal and physical fortitude of a wet noodle...expect our resident experts to quickly provide stats defending the resiliancy and strength of wet noodles...

    seriously however if this isnt the best reason to start aceves...we are always playing from behind due to our calvacade of pitchers who pitch 4 innings and give up 5 runs and put us in the hole - and we dont recover apparently
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    This season has  been up and down        but one  constant  is that    if they fall behind    by 2 or  3 runs  the game is over..  You just get that feeling .. and wonder if the team has the same lack of confidence.

    They have the Red Sox mentality that a homer will  do the job...  There is rarely a  sacrifice or hit and run.  To play for a run or two and get back in the game, we'd rather hit the 3 run homer to tie it.  

    During his cold streak,,   I kept screaming at the tv  for Pedroia  to make contact, when he was   swinging like only a home run would do..

    Fundamental baseball  -  something they lack in.



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    I couldn't find a site with the win/loss records of teams when leading or trailing after 7 full (but I will continue to look)...

    2 & 56 isn't great but how many of those were games we trailed big?

    />To date we've lost 64 games all season
    />We're 18-17 in one run games & 5 & 5 in extras...

    That's a total of 22 loss in 1 run or extras inning games...So if you subtract 22 from 64 we're left with 42 games we lost by 2 runs or more when trailing after 7...

    Which means 42 times we've come to bat in the 8th down by at least 2, facing the other teams set-up and closer...Which I would suggest is not all that out of the norm...The Sox with Bard & Papelbon until recently the Sox when leading after 7 were something like 60-2 so what the stats tell me is that you don't want to be trailing after 7...

    As a comparision...

    The Yanks are 21-23 in 1 run games and 4 -10 in extras
    The Rays are 25-18 in 1 Run games and 8 - 5 in extras

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]It looks bad, but is it?  What is the average?  What are the Rays' and Yankees' record in such games?
    Posted by SonicsMonksLyresVicars[/QUOTE]

    Of course.

    These people post stats that others feed them without ever questioning them.

    The last time this was brought up, I think the NYY had one win under those conditions.  It's like every other criticism of the RS.  it is simply devoid of any critical analysis.  It's like every other problem in this country.  People hear a number, go yeah or nay on it, without ever once considering what it means in context or anything else.  Unbelievable.

    If you want that stat to mean anything, list the average number of come-from-behind wins, then show what the NYY, TB, Det, and Tex has.  Then you have a basis to see how well or badly we are doing.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    On the flip side, I think I saw flashed on the screen yesterday that TB was 73-1 when leading after 7. This with a virtually brand new and low cost pen.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]On the flip side, I think I saw flashed on the screen yesterday that TB was 73-1 when leading after 7. This with a virtually brand new and low cost pen.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I saw that stat too Moon and my jaw hit the floor...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    I've lived in SF Bay area past 45 years...first 21 in Maine and roots run deep so a Boston team fan 1st & local team 2nd. Yup, I know, Giants won World Series last year.  Maybe I'm greedy but I seem to be watching 2 teams I like who can't score. The enigma is that the Red Sox are 1st in Team Batting Ave. with .280 & On Base Percentage of .461.  The Giants are last, 30th, with .239 ave & OBP .358.

    The Yankees are 2nd, slightly behind us. But yesterday for example they were behind 6-1 and came back in the 6th with 2 and the 7th with 4 to end up winning 7-6.  Without the stats, just a frustrating guesstimate, they seem to do this alot.

    It's just frustrating watching my 2 favorite teams as hitless, oops, I mean scoreless wonders because yesterday we did outhit the Rays. Seems we lose a lot of games even outhitting our opponents.  We must be leading the league too in LOB (men left on base). I don't know these stats.  If I sound cynical, I've made my point !!!  The Giants, however,do not get blown out like we do.  The difference, of course, irrespective of SF’s pathetic last place hitting stats is that their pitching is better. I say this as a guess without providing ERA Stats of their starters vs ours as this is a Red Sox forum and I’m discussing too much of my 2nd favorite team. But, if Giants and Sox met in the World Series, I’d root for Boston !!! But I was only 1/2 miserable yesterday as the Giants  scored four runs in the eighth to win 6-5, yet they were outhit in the game, and extended their winning streak to seven games. Time for SF to pass us the winning baton and have us go on a winning streak of even 2 in a row...sorry for being so cynical !
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all : Of course. These people post stats that others feed them without ever questioning them. The last time this was brought up, I think the NYY had one win under those conditions.  It's like every other criticism of the RS.  it is simply devoid of any critical analysis.  It's like every other problem in this country.  People hear a number, go yeah or nay on it, without ever once considering what it means in context or anything else.  Unbelievable. If you want that stat to mean anything, list the average number of come-from-behind wins, then show what the NYY, TB, Det, and Tex has.  Then you have a basis to see how well or badly we are doing.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Agreed....
     
    The other part of that equasion is how many times have we come to bat in the 8th trailing by more than 3 or 4 runs and had to face the other teams backend of the pen...guys that get paid to close games out!

    Moon...

    The Rays pen has done a great job but they also have been protected all year by having a starting staff get deep in a lot of close games...below is the total innings pitched...The sox pen by contrast has had to log 108 more innings then the Rays....which is why they're still in it and we're struggling to close it out..

    TeamStrts Pen Total
    Boston 888 468 1356
    NY 920 425 1345
    Tampa 996 353 1349


    Make no mistake in the end our lack of quality depth in the rotation due to injuries to Buccholz and Matsusaka...along with the recent loss of Bedard and the season long under performance by Lackey, Wake and Miller is what has been our undoing...this thread suggest that we're losing or have lost due to lack of clutch hitting...End of the day...we've scored 85 runs while giving up 100 in the month of September a minus 15 run differentail...the Rays (75-56 +19) and Yanks (77-65 +12)....The Ray's starting pitching depth is why they've closed the gap so quickly...They're 7-1 vs us in our last 8 meetings and while we have struggled to score we've given up a ton of runs....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all : Of course. These people post stats that others feed them without ever questioning them. The last time this was brought up, I think the NYY had one win under those conditions.  It's like every other criticism of the RS.  it is simply devoid of any critical analysis.  It's like every other problem in this country.  People hear a number, go yeah or nay on it, without ever once considering what it means in context or anything else.  Unbelievable. If you want that stat to mean anything, list the average number of come-from-behind wins, then show what the NYY, TB, Det, and Tex has.  Then you have a basis to see how well or badly we are doing.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What an utter bunch of nonsense! They've been in 58 games where they've been behind in the seventh and have won 2!!! That's
    a stat"...devoid of critical analysis"? No, it's a stat that says games are 9 innings long and the Sox are not getting it done late in games when they need to. And if they have to do it against a good setup man and a closer, that's the breaks.

    Do you really care what the average is or need to compare it to other teams?  If the Yanks or Rays are in the same boat, that's pretty telling about each team's performances in the clutch--not an excuse that it's OK.

    It speaks more to an opposing team that if you get a lead against these guys late, they're going to fold up the tent.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]I've lived in SF Bay area past 45 years...first 21 in Maine and roots run deep so a Boston team fan 1st & local team 2nd. Yup, I know, Giants won World Series last year.  Maybe I'm greedy but I seem to be watching 2 teams I like who can't score. The enigma is that the Red Sox are 1st in Team Batting Ave. with .280 & On Base Percentage of .461.  The Giants are last, 30th, with .239 ave & OBP .358. The Yankees are 2nd, slightly behind us. But yesterday for example they were behind 6-1 and came back in the 6th with 2 and the 7th with 4 to end up winning 7-6.  Without the stats, just a frustrating guesstimate, they seem to do this alot. It's just frustrating watching my 2 favorite teams as hitless, oops, I mean scoreless wonders because yesterday we did outhit the Rays. Seems we lose a lot of games even outhitting our opponents.  We must be leading the league too in LOB (men left on base). I don't know these stats.  If I sound cynical, I've made my point !!!  The Giants, however,do not get blown out like we do.  The difference, of course, irrespective of SF’s pathetic last place hitting stats is that their pitching is better. I say this as a guess without providing ERA Stats of their starters vs ours as this is a Red Sox forum and I’m discussing too much of my 2nd favorite team. But, if Giants and Sox met in the World Series, I’d root for Boston !!! But I was only 1/2 miserable yesterday as the Giants  scored four runs in the eighth to win 6-5, yet they were outhit in the game, and extended their winning streak to seven games. Time for SF to pass us the winning baton and have us go on a winning streak of even 2 in a row...sorry for being so cynical !
    Posted by mandobello[/QUOTE]

    The Sox...with runners in scoring position are ranked 4th overall in batting average #1 in runs scored in all of baseball...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/39/sort/avg/order/true

    With RISP w 2 outs (the clutch measure?) They're 5th in batting average and 3rd in runs scored...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/185/sort/avg/order/true

    From the 7th inning on they're #1 in batting average and #1 in runs scored...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/48/sort/avg/order/true

    So I find it difficult to place the recent malaise on the bats...although we have been digned up of late...

    Our inability to win of late is squarely on the pitching staff...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/45
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    With RISP w 2 outs (the clutch measure?) They're 5th in batting average and 3rd in runs scored...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/185/sort/avg/order/true

    From the 7th inning on they're #1 in batting average and #1 in runs scored...

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/48/sort/avg/order/true
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Beantowne--good stats but you left out the stat that's the crux of Fox's graphic about failing late in games. What's the BA with 2 outs and RISP (the clutch measure as you say) in games they're losing from the seventh inning on?

    If a team scores a lot of runs like the Yanks and Sox, their BA will be pretty decent. Do they pile it on in blowouts? Very misleading and says nothing about a team or hitter's ability to get a big hit when it really counts.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all : The Sox...with runners in scoring position are ranked 4th overall in batting average #1 in runs scored in all of baseball... http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/39/sort/avg/order/true With RISP w 2 outs (the clutch measure?) They're 5th in batting average and 3rd in runs scored... http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/185/sort/avg/order/true From the 7th inning on they're #1 in batting average and #1 in runs scored... http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/split/48/sort/avg/order/true So I find it difficult to place the recent malaise on the bats...although we have been digned up of late... Our inability to win of late is squarely on the pitching staff... http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/split/45
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Good Research...Great Links...Stats much better than guesstimates !

    Thank You !!!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    Make no mistake in the end our lack of quality depth in the rotation due to injuries to Buccholz and Matsusaka...along with the recent loss of Bedard and the season long under performance by Lackey, Wake and Miller is what has been our undoing.

    A lot of these things are a whole lot less mysterious once they are analyzed.

    We have more starts from our #7-#10 starters than the NYY, TB, Det, Tex, and LAA combined, maybe 27-22.  I think a lot of those BP stats even up a lot if we saw the other teams with 27 starts from 7-10.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    The Sox are 20-24 since August 1 and haven't won 2 games in a row since they took a doubleheader from the Oakland A's on August 28.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all : Good Research...Great Links...Stats much better than guesstimates ! Thank You !!!
    Posted by mandobello[/QUOTE]

    mandobello...

    Baseball is a game where if one tries hard enough you can make stats tell different stories by changing the date parameters and often stats are presented with no means of weighting them...OPS is IMHO a stats that places to much weight on slg...300 Obp and 500 slg = .800 ops...350 Obp and 450 slg = .800 ops....which hitter would you want...I'll take the guy with the .350 OBP...

    This thread is an example of just that...great research by the fox team but as Joe stated above they didn't bother to put that stat into a competitive contexted by weighting it against a mean. The Sox are "2-56" when trailing after 7 sounds awful especially when they're are trailing after seven...adds to the drama of the moment...but what does it really mean?

    Further what are the odds a team will come back and win entering the 8th down by 1-2 or 3 runs facing the other teams primary set-up and closers vs if you're down 4 or more? I'd imagine that most, if not all teams have records that aren't that far off the Sox...

    In the modern game the swing innings are the 6th and 7th which is typically when the middle relievers comes into play...Perhaps another way of looking it is what is the Sox record when trailing after 5?...My guess is that it'll be a lot better than when trialing after 7 and again it would have even more relevace if it were weighted against the field...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    Here's a very disturbing stat.

    The Sox are 0-64 when trailing at the end of a game.

    Pathetic.

    Innocent
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all

    In Response to Re: 2-56 when losing after 7th says it all:
    [QUOTE]On the flip side, I think I saw flashed on the screen yesterday that TB was 73-1 when leading after 7. This with a virtually brand new and low cost pen.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    That stat isn't quite right..

    The Rays are 73-1 when leading at the start of the ninth (after 8). 

    Here's a small list comparing Rays, Red Sox and Yankees.

    Ahead After 7 After 8 
    Rays 71-4 73-1
    Red Sox 75-4 74-0
    Yankees 82-7 84-3

    Tied After 7 After 8
    Rays 6-6 5-6
    Red Sox 10-4 10-2
    Yankees 4-7 3-10

    Trailing After 7 After 8
    Rays 7-57 6-60
    Red Sox 2-56 2-61
    Yankees 3-45 2-46

    Combining the Last the tied and trailing lists to show how good teams are when tied or trailing late. 

    After 7 After 8
    Rays 13-63 11-66
    Red Sox 12-60 12-63
    Yankees 7-52 5-56



     

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