2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tender or non-tender ? Or as the King said " Love Me Tender.. "  I am afraid that we have fallen so far , so fast , that we are now relegated to this stuff.  Well , that and pretending that we have the greatest crop of prospects in baseball.   The future is ours. Some of you love this sort of thing. It gives you a chance to opine about your views.  Show how smart you are. Some of us just want a winning team, and we want it now. What is wrong here?  

    [/QUOTE]

    I want to win now, but not at the expense of 2014 and beyond, and don't give me that "Henry can spend way over the cap" line either. We have a near fixed budget limit, and spending big in one of the weakest FA season markets in recent memory will cripple us for many years to come AND not make us a top 4 contender anyways.

    Signing Hamilton, Greinke and Napoli will not make us a top 4 club. Would we have a better chance of making the playoffs or stealing a ring? Yes, but at the expense of ruining our longer term future.

    [/QUOTE]

    What is our long term future anyway ? We are in a five year drought now.  How long is acceptable ?  

    So, because we have had a 5 year drought, that gives us reason to become reckless?

    No.

    If this was a strong free agent class, I'd be all for picking and choosing the best of the best and overpaying one or two of them, but the top FAs this year are all flawed.

     

    Hamilton , Greinke and Napoli are free agents. All they would cost is the money saved on the L.A. Trade.  

    No, all they "would cost" is to replace last year's mistakes with this year's mistakes and we'd be, at best, slightly better than 2012... still not a serious playoff contending team.

    You don't want to do that , but yet you are willing to trade our best prospects and/or established players for far lesser talents.

    1) Aren't you the one with littlke faith in our prospects? The one bashing those who look to our youth as our future? Now, you act like wanting to trade them is a sin.

    2) J Upton is better and has a cheaper contract than Hamilton. Brett Anderson will do better than Greinke over the next 3 years at a small fraction of the cost. 

    3) My plan brings us better players, saves us money that we can spend later on when the FA classes are better, and sacrifices some, but not all of our prospects.

    4) My plan also spends some money on FAs this year: better value for the money ones that Hamilton, Greinke, Swisher, or Napoli provide. I have said I am OK with Napoli at $33M/3 and wouldn't complain about $36M/3 or $41M/4, since he can DH after Papi retires and can slide to catcher in NL parks. I want us to pay (overpay) for B McCarthy and/or Marcum. I'd also like to see us sign Pagan and trade Ellsbury while we can still get something in return rather than miss the playoffs again in 2012 and get nothing for him anyways.

    5) Signing Hamilton, Greinke & Napoli would be worse than the CC & Lackey signings and Beckett extension. We'd be right where we were last year... near contenders with no budget room to improve for the next 3-5 years.

     How is that helping our long term future ?

    If we trade for Upton, B Anderson, and Pagan as well as sign McCarthy & Napoli, we'll be as good as an only sign Hamilton/Greinke/Napoli team in 2013, but more importantly, we'll be much much much better set up for 2014 and 2015. We'd have younger players that are now reaching their prime, not older players moving post prime. We'd have more money to spend on a much better FA class in 2014. 

     Anyway , if Hamilton, Greinke and Napoli can't make us serious contenders , what are the chances that Barnes , Bradley and Brentz will ?  It is my belief that you have got to have a goal of winning it all every year.  I guess I just don't have the patience that others have. 

    You miss the point completely: your comparison should be:

    2014 and 2015...

    Hamilton (past prime) , Greinke (nearing past-prime) & Napoli (near past prime) and a bunch of prospects (and nothing to show for Ells but a sandwich pick).

    vs

    Upton (just entering prime), Anderson (just entering prime), Napoli (near past prime), Pagan (prime), McCarthy (prime) and a few less prospects (but hopefully still having Barnes, Webster, Swihart, Owens and de la Rosa.. probably not having Cecchini, Bradley, Brentz and Bogaerts) and having something positive to show for Ellsbury.

    Maybe your plan would give us a better chance in 2013 (slightly), maybe not, but there is no way you can say your plan is better for 2014 and 2015. 2016 and beyond might look better in terms of prospects under your plan, but we'd be so crippled by over-aged high priced players that I doubt they could make a difference.

    Many see the Manny signing as a mistake, but at least he put up the numbers and was in his prime while here. You are asking us to go along with a plan that pays Manny money for players that don't come close to projecting to Manny production.

    Hamilton turns 32 early next season. He has averaged only 550 PAs the last 4 years (in his prime). 2 of the last 4 seasons, he's had an OPS below .883.

    Greinke is 29. He will probably be in his prime for most of his contract, but he is not Pedro or Schill or even a Beckett when healthy and on top of his game. Greinke and A Sanchez might be the best high-priced FAs available this winter, but I just do not see them as "the ones" to put all our egss in their basket, just because some ticking "make the playoffs" clock of yours needs to be relieved.

    Napoli & Swisher are good players seeking great player pay. Napoli is a fit for us now and into 2014 & 2015, and if we don't sign hamilton or Greinke, signing him would still allow us to spend more wisely in 2014 and beyond.

    I happen to think my plan is more balanced than yours. One could argue that your plan is better for 2013 and have more prospects for 2015 and beyond, but I think you are devaluing the effects of having huge contracts for players that will be declining rapidly, while my plan gets us players on the rise and at lower budget costs that allow us more future FA flexibility.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    moon stole that thought process from me.... I am suing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe we can settle out of court.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tender or non-tender ? Or as the King said " Love Me Tender.. "  I am afraid that we have fallen so far , so fast , that we are now relegated to this stuff.  Well , that and pretending that we have the greatest crop of prospects in baseball.   The future is ours. Some of you love this sort of thing. It gives you a chance to opine about your views.  Show how smart you are. Some of us just want a winning team, and we want it now. What is wrong here?  

    [/QUOTE]

    I want to win now, but not at the expense of 2014 and beyond, and don't give me that "Henry can spend way over the cap" line either. We have a near fixed budget limit, and spending big in one of the weakest FA season markets in recent memory will cripple us for many years to come AND not make us a top 4 contender anyways.

    Signing Hamilton, Greinke and Napoli will not make us a top 4 club. Would we have a better chance of making the playoffs or stealing a ring? Yes, but at the expense of ruining our longer term future.

    [/QUOTE]

    What is our long term future anyway ? We are in a five year drought now.  How long is acceptable ?  

    So, because we have had a 5 year drought, that gives us reason to become reckless?

    No.

    If this was a strong free agent class, I'd be all for picking and choosing the best of the best and overpaying one or two of them, but the top FAs this year are all flawed.

     

    Hamilton , Greinke and Napoli are free agents. All they would cost is the money saved on the L.A. Trade.  

    No, all they "would cost" is to replace last year's mistakes with this year's mistakes and we'd be, at best, slightly better than 2012... still not a serious playoff contending team.

    You don't want to do that , but yet you are willing to trade our best prospects and/or established players for far lesser talents.

    1) Aren't you the one with littlke faith in our prospects? The one bashing those who look to our youth as our future? Now, you act like wanting to trade them is a sin.

    2) J Upton is better and has a cheaper contract than Hamilton. Brett Anderson will do better than Greinke over the next 3 years at a small fraction of the cost. 

    3) My plan brings us better players, saves us money that we can spend later on when the FA classes are better, and sacrifices some, but not all of our prospects.

    4) My plan also spends some money on FAs this year: better value for the money ones that Hamilton, Greinke, Swisher, or Napoli provide. I have said I am OK with Napoli at $33M/3 and wouldn't complain about $36M/3 or $41M/4, since he can DH after Papi retires and can slide to catcher in NL parks. I want us to pay (overpay) for B McCarthy and/or Marcum. I'd also like to see us sign Pagan and trade Ellsbury while we can still get something in return rather than miss the playoffs again in 2012 and get nothing for him anyways.

    5) Signing Hamilton, Greinke & Napoli would be worse than the CC & Lackey signings and Beckett extension. We'd be right where we were last year... near contenders with no budget room to improve for the next 3-5 years.

     How is that helping our long term future ?

    If we trade for Upton, B Anderson, and Pagan as well as sign McCarthy & Napoli, we'll be as good as an only sign Hamilton/Greinke/Napoli team in 2013, but more importantly, we'll be much much much better set up for 2014 and 2015. We'd have younger players that are now reaching their prime, not older players moving post prime. We'd have more money to spend on a much better FA class in 2014. 

     Anyway , if Hamilton, Greinke and Napoli can't make us serious contenders , what are the chances that Barnes , Bradley and Brentz will ?  It is my belief that you have got to have a goal of winning it all every year.  I guess I just don't have the patience that others have. 

    You miss the point completely: your comparison should be:

    2014 and 2015...

    Hamilton (past prime) , Greinke (nearing past-prime) & Napoli (near past prime) and a bunch of prospects (and nothing to show for Ells but a sandwich pick).

    vs

    Upton (just entering prime), Anderson (just entering prime), Napoli (near past prime), Pagan (prime), McCarthy (prime) and a few less prospects (but hopefully still having Barnes, Webster, Swihart, Owens and de la Rosa.. probably not having Cecchini, Bradley, Brentz and Bogaerts) and having something positive to show for Ellsbury.

    Maybe your plan would give us a better chance in 2013 (slightly), maybe not, but there is no way you can say your plan is better for 2014 and 2015. 2016 and beyond might look better in terms of prospects under your plan, but we'd be so crippled by over-aged high priced players that I doubt they could make a difference.

    Many see the Manny signing as a mistake, but at least he put up the numbers and was in his prime while here. You are asking us to go along with a plan that pays Manny money for players that don't come close to projecting to Manny production.

    Hamilton turns 32 early next season. He has averaged only 550 PAs the last 4 years (in his prime). 2 of the last 4 seasons, he's had an OPS below .883.

    Greinke is 29. He will probably be in his prime for most of his contract, but he is not Pedro or Schill or even a Beckett when healthy and on top of his game. Greinke and A Sanchez might be the best high-priced FAs available this winter, but I just do not see them as "the ones" to put all our egss in their basket, just because some ticking "make the playoffs" clock of yours needs to be relieved.

    Napoli & Swisher are good players seeking great player pay. Napoli is a fit for us now and into 2014 & 2015, and if we don't sign hamilton or Greinke, signing him would still allow us to spend more wisely in 2014 and beyond.

    I happen to think my plan is more balanced than yours. One could argue that your plan is better for 2013 and have more prospects for 2015 and beyond, but I think you are devaluing the effects of having huge contracts for players that will be declining rapidly, while my plan gets us players on the rise and at lower budget costs that allow us more future FA flexibility.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Well , it is only speculation as to how soon Hamilton will decline. He may still be superior to others who are in their prime.  It is just my feeling that they should make every effort to win every year, while still planning for the future. I think the best way to do that is with home-grown young talent and select,  star free agents.  Trying to build through mostly trades always carries the risk of back firing. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    Well , it is only speculation as to how soon Hamilton will decline. He may still be superior to others who are in their prime.  It is just my feeling that they should make every effort to win every year, while still planning for the future. I think the best way to do that is with home-grown young talent and select,  star free agents.  Trying to build through mostly trades always carries the risk of back firing. 

    Our big name FA signings have backfired more than our trades.

    If we sign Hamilton, Greinke and Napoli, we will hardly be able to sign any more big names for many years to come.

    I just don't see why you want to choose this year, one of the worst FA classes I can remember, to make 3 big splash signings. 

    I am not arguing with your concept of building a continous winner, just the timing of your plan to spend big.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We cut both of these guys recently, and no one claimed them.  Why would you want to offer arbitration to someone claimed off of waivers?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We cut both of these guys recently, and no one claimed them.  Why would you want to offer arbitration to someone claimed off of waivers?

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox will sign Hill and Atchison soon.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We cut both of these guys recently, and no one claimed them.  Why would you want to offer arbitration to someone claimed off of waivers?

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox will sign Hill and Atchison soon.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's what I assume as well.  We had cut both of them, and one of them more than once.  They'd have cost about $2M in arb.  Hill is kind of funny in a way, since he has pitched 4, 8, and 19.2 IPs over the past three years.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We cut both of these guys recently, and no one claimed them.  Why would you want to offer arbitration to someone claimed off of waivers?

    [/QUOTE]


    What's "recently"? During the regular season? My guess is that at least Hill will get picked up by somebody. Furthermore, the point is that for whatever reason they kept the players that performed more poorly and did not keep the ones the performed at a higher level. To me, that makes no sense.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We cut both of these guys recently, and no one claimed them.  Why would you want to offer arbitration to someone claimed off of waivers?

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox will sign Hill and Atchison soon.

    [/QUOTE]


    Maybe...unless someone else signs them first. Both these guys had ERAs under 2 last year. If we can sign them thats great; if not, its just another example of poor FO management.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]

    We cut both of these guys recently, and no one claimed them.  Why would you want to offer arbitration to someone claimed off of waivers?

    [/QUOTE]


    What's "recently"? During the regular season? My guess is that at least Hill will get picked up by somebody. Furthermore, the point is that for whatever reason they kept the players that performed more poorly and did not keep the ones the performed at a higher level. To me, that makes no sense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hill pitched 31.2 innings in the last three years.  His expected salary was going to be $1.1M.  I like the guy, and hope we re-sing him, but I am not entirely convinced he even desrves a major contract.

    • November 3, 2009: Granted Free Agency.
    • January 26, 2010: Signed as a Free Agent with the St. Louis Cardinals.
    • June 30, 2010: Granted Free Agency.
    • June 30, 2010: Signed as a Free Agent with the Boston Red Sox.
    • November 6, 2010: Granted Free Agency.
    • December 16, 2010: Signed as a Free Agent with the Boston Red Sox.
    • December 12, 2011: Granted Free Agency.
    • December 13, 2011: Signed as a Free Agent with the Boston Red Sox.
    • November 30, 2012: Granted Free Agency.



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    • December 7, 2007: Signed as a Free Agent with theBoston Red Sox.
    • December 21, 2007: Released by theBoston Red Sox.
    • December 7, 2009: Signed as a Free Agent with theBoston Red Sox.
    • November 30, 2012: Granted Free Agency.

    Atchison's situation probably has more to do with his injury than anything else.  He only had 5 IPs after 7/13.  As it stands now, they have

    • Bailey
    • Aceves
    • Miller
    • Breslow
    • Bard
    • Morales
    • Melancon
    • Tazawa
    • Mortensen

    That's nine guys competing for 7 opening.  Maybe one becomes a starter and maybe Aceves gets traded, but that's still 7 guys.  It's possible that we don't want to commit $800k to someone with a bad arm, that might not be needed.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    • December 7, 2007: Signed as a Free Agent with theBoston Red Sox.
    • December 21, 2007: Released by theBoston Red Sox.
    • December 7, 2009: Signed as a Free Agent with theBoston Red Sox.
    • November 30, 2012: Granted Free Agency.

    Atchison's situation probably has more to do with his injury than anything else.  He only had 5 IPs after 7/13.  As it stands now, they have

    • Bailey
    • Aceves
    • Miller
    • Breslow
    • Bard
    • Morales
    • Melancon
    • Tazawa
    • Mortensen

    That's nine guys competing for 7 opening.  Maybe one becomes a starter and maybe Aceves gets traded, but that's still 7 guys.  It's possible that we don't want to commit $800k to someone with a bad arm, that might not be needed.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Most seasons we use way more than 9 guys for the 7 pen slots, but I do think we could afford to part with some of our relief pitchers to upgrade other areas of higher need.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    Manny Ramirez was worth every penny and the minute his attitude finally became an overbearing issue (two WS rings later) the team dealt him, it was perfect. 

    Nobody here should forget that AGon is an excellent player, it isn't like he was the problem. 

    Hamilton for 3 years at $25 million per year would be something I would support.... especially because I know this team can afford it. However Greinke would be a waste of money (Crawford Dollars I call it). I don't see anything suggesting he wants to be here in fact just the opposite.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    Hamilton will get more than 3 years.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tender or non-tender ? Or as the King said " Love Me Tender.. "  I am afraid that we have fallen so far , so fast , that we are now relegated to this stuff.  Well , that and pretending that we have the greatest crop of prospects in baseball.   The future is ours. Some of you love this sort of thing. It gives you a chance to opine about your views.  Show how smart you are. Some of us just want a winning team, and we want it now. What is wrong here?  

    [/QUOTE]

    I want to win now, but not at the expense of 2014 and beyond, and don't give me that "Henry can spend way over the cap" line either. We have a near fixed budget limit, and spending big in one of the weakest FA season markets in recent memory will cripple us for many years to come AND not make us a top 4 contender anyways.

    Signing Hamilton, Greinke and Napoli will not make us a top 4 club. Would we have a better chance of making the playoffs or stealing a ring? Yes, but at the expense of ruining our longer term future.

    [/QUOTE]

    What is our long term future anyway ? We are in a five year drought now.  How long is acceptable ?   Hamilton , Greinke and Napoli are free agents. All they would cost is the money saved on the L.A. Trade.  You don't want to do that , but yet you are willing to trade our best prospects and/or established players for far lesser talents.  How is that helping our long term future ?  Anyway , if Hamilton, Greinke and Napoli can't make us serious contenders , what are the chances that Barnes , Bradley and Brentz will ?  It is my belief that you have got to have a goal of winning it all every year.  I guess I just don't have the patience that others have. 

    [/QUOTE]


    if we signed hamilton, grienke and naps we would definitely be a contender. but we would be hamstrung for years to come. next time an attractive FA came around we would be unable to make a play for them. or worse, we might not have the cash to sign filler FAs like in 2011. then say hello to Cook 2.0

    [/QUOTE]


    How can anyone guarentee greinke will do good here with his SI? Who can guarentee Hammy doesnt relapse while here?

    I can raise as many question marks with these 2 FA as anone can with our prospects. I think spending over 100M and 5+ years on a question mark, especially after the CC and lackey deals, is just as much a risk as saying our prospects will help this team long term...But at a lot less risk and cost...

    I think some of our kids have a lot better shot than others do, but bottom line is I believe there are a couple that will make a real impact on the big club...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hamilton will get more than 3 years.

    [/QUOTE]


    very unlikely he gets 5 years or longer though. and even 5 is pushing it..

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sign FA pitchers : You have $80 M to spend.

    Grienke--he knows whether he can pitch here--ask him--if the answer is yes--he 's the #1.

    Haren, Marcum, Jackson and Depster--they are the starting rotation.

    Trade Lester, Buch, Doubie --keep Lackey at least through ST or the deadline.

    Then use some of your prospects and discarded pitchers to solve your corner OF slots and SS.

    Sign Pena and Reynolds to platoon at 1 B and PH and perhaps be the DH if Ortiz doesn't recover.

    Let's play Ben---this is the plan , make it work--we want to win.

    [/QUOTE]


    This isnt a video game ya know...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]


    You realize Atch and Hill BOTH have major elbow issues, right? They BOTH spent most of the year on the DL because of it. That makes them the odd men out. I dont think they will get claimed, thus signing a ML deal with the Sox again...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    • December 7, 2007: Signed as a Free Agent with theBoston Red Sox.
    • December 21, 2007: Released by theBoston Red Sox.
    • December 7, 2009: Signed as a Free Agent with theBoston Red Sox.
    • November 30, 2012: Granted Free Agency.

    Atchison's situation probably has more to do with his injury than anything else.  He only had 5 IPs after 7/13.  As it stands now, they have

    • Bailey
    • Aceves
    • Miller
    • Breslow
    • Bard
    • Morales
    • Melancon
    • Tazawa
    • Mortensen

    That's nine guys competing for 7 opening.  Maybe one becomes a starter and maybe Aceves gets traded, but that's still 7 guys.  It's possible that we don't want to commit $800k to someone with a bad arm, that might not be needed.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Most seasons we use way more than 9 guys for the 7 pen slots, but I do think we could afford to part with some of our relief pitchers to upgrade other areas of higher need.

    [/QUOTE]

    You need more than 9 guys, but you can only keep 7 on your major league roster.  So Hill and Atch would have to be kept on our minor league rosters at a combined $2M.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]


    You realize Atch and Hill BOTH have major elbow issues, right? They BOTH spent most of the year on the DL because of it. That makes them the odd men out. I dont think they will get claimed, thus signing a ML deal with the Sox again...

    [/QUOTE]

    Hill has 31.2 innings over 3 years, and Atch missed most of the 2nd half.  If we signed these two guys from other teams, Pumpsie would be screaming 'dumpster dive'.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    Both Hill & Atchison will be back with the Sox in 2013.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pitchers offered contracts for 2013:

    Aceves: ERA: 5.36
    Miller: ERA: 3.35
    Breslow: ERA: 2.70

    Pitchers NOT offered contracts for 2013:

    Hill: ERA: 1.83
    Atchison: 1.58

    Is it any wonder that this franchise is where it is today when the FO chooses to categorically pick poorer performers over better performers? Nice to see the "good old boy network" is alive and well.

    [/QUOTE]


    You realize Atch and Hill BOTH have major elbow issues, right? They BOTH spent most of the year on the DL because of it. That makes them the odd men out. I dont think they will get claimed, thus signing a ML deal with the Sox again...

    [/QUOTE]

    I realize that they had elbow issues last year. However, as far as I know, they are now healthy. I have read nothing to the contrary, so I think thats a reasonable assumption-unless someone here can show me some proof that they are still hurt. When they are healthy, they have performed well. On the other hand, Miller had an ERA of 4.71 after July 4 and Bard stunk all year. Why not keep the guys who have a recent history of pitching well and jettison the guys that are not, rather than the reverse? Again, assuming Atchison and Hill are healthy.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Both Hill & Atchison will be back with the Sox in 2013.

    [/QUOTE]


    Should I save this as a guarantee somewhere? How do you know this. These two guys had ERAs below 2 last year. I think they will find a home somewhere else before they are signed to minor league contracts with us.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2 And A 1/2 Hours Left Till MidNight....

    I am near certain one will be back, and put the odds at better than 50-50 both will be back. Just a feeling, not a guarantee.

     
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