2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    These are some grim numbers.

    2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history.

    2012 5.19
    1932 5.16
    1925 5.08
    1940 5.04
    1996 5.01
    2006 5.00

    Those are all the years the ERA was 5 or over.

    Also, Clay Buchholz's ERA of 4.56 was the worst ever for the ERA leader among the starting pitchers (minimum of 15 starts).

    2012 4.56
    1926 4.22
    2005 4.15
    1927 4.10
    1983 4.04
    1964 4.04

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    But... but...  softlaw says that our problem this year was not having a superstar RH bat...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    softy bashed Wake for having a 5.12 ERA last year, but when the whole starting staff has a 5.19 ERA, it is not a big concern.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    moon the point was you advocated to bring Wakefiled back. Tell us how he would have helped the team in 2012? Answer: He wouldn't. Like 2011 he would have been part of the problem and not the solution.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    moon the point was you advocated to bring Wakefiled back. Tell us how he would have helped the team in 2012? Answer: He wouldn't. Like 2011 he would have been part of the problem and not the solution.

    Stop drinking softy's Kool-Aid and think for yourself on this one. 

    I wanted us to offer Wake a contract that included incentives to be our 6th starter.

    As it turned out, had Wake repeated 2011 in 2012, it would have been an improvement over several of our 2012 starters, but no, it would not have mattered in the overall scheme of things, just like starting Miller instead of Wake last year wouldn't have changed a thing either.

    Why don't you ask your buddy, softy, why Wake was the reason we lost last year because his ERA was 5.12, but now that our whole staff had an ERA of 5.19, we don't need to fix the staff? Isn't that a more pertinent question? Are you afraid to stand up to the mighty clown?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    I can't help it if I was practically the ONLY one alarmed about our staff last August while you and the rest were drinking the "we are the team to beat" kool-aid. 

    When we were having to score 8 runs a game just to win all last summer where were the brainiacs taking note to the fact our pitchers sucked even then?

    The team needs a proven 200 inning pitcher with a winning attitude. Lester has until July to show us he is better than now or he is out the door. I bet Lackey will win 14 games and have an era over 4. Clay will be okay, but okay on a 4th place team just does not matter much.

     

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    Nice try.

     

    BurritoT owned and operated his own taco stand on the legendary OOB Pier while he was in attending USM. BurritoT was then given a chance of a lifetime to work 1999 Spring Training but the only catch was that he had to go to Lowell for the Single A short-season, so wanting to be part of the team he grew up with he did it. BurritoT said from day one it was for one season, his best friend remained within the organization and now has two WS rings and is next in line to be the clubhouse manager for the Red Sox; this allows for BurritoT to hear some pretty neat stuff at times but he does not reveal it as he may cause a problem for his friend.  BurritoT then went to work for Michellin/Gillette/ALLTEL over the years as a Team Marketing Manager for NASCAR, BurritoT loved that job but was not a fan of NASCAR. BurritoT decided in 2007 to go back-packing and headed for South America. Eventually he said what the heck you only live once and continued that trip to Vietnam. BurritoT now owns his own business and is normally happy though not all the time. BurritoT defends the USA anytime her name is insulted.

     

    Now go crawl back into your parents attic you over-aged moron who never left Pittsfield and never will.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I can't help it if I was practically the ONLY one alarmed about our staff last August while you and the rest were drinking the "we are the team to beat" kool-aid. 

    When we were having to score 8 runs a game just to win all last summer where were the brainiacs taking note to the fact our pitchers sucked even then?

    The team needs a proven 200 inning pitcher with a winning attitude. Lester has until July to show us he is better than now or he is out the door. I bet Lackey will win 14 games and have an era over 4. Clay will be okay, but okay on a 4th place team just does not matter much.

     

     




     

    Burrito, you know I have always been a strong advocate for building up our starting rotation from the top not the bottom. It was no different last spring, and at the trade deadline, I said we would never be the favorites if we didn't go out and get a solid starter.

    You were not alone.

    I also said the same thing this spring, but many felt we needed a big RH'd bat more.

    And, what about next year?

    I say we need solid pitching under team control for several years, while your hero (softy) wants us to sign a couple journeymen starters at $1M a piece and spend much of our resources on getting J.Upton (not a bad idea, unless in isolation).

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    Hi moon. I certainly think we do not need a cy young (though it would be great) but we need a pitcher such as Shields to come here. 200 innings, wants to win, no baggage. Then with a little luck Lester becomes that 15+ game winner we always expected.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    These are some grim numbers.

    2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history.

    2012 5.19
    1932 5.16
    1925 5.08
    1940 5.04
    1996 5.01
    2006 5.00

    Those are all the years the ERA was 5 or over.

    Also, Clay Buchholz's ERA of 4.56 was the worst ever for the ERA leader among the starting pitchers (minimum of 15 starts).

    2012 4.56
    1926 4.22
    2005 4.15
    1927 4.10
    1983 4.04
    1964 4.04


    Thanks for posting this.  I knew the pitching was horrible this season, but didn't realize just how bad.  We have to hope that the Red Sox can improve in this area next season.  It couldn't get much worse. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Hi moon. I certainly think we do not need a cy young (though it would be great) but we need a pitcher such as Shields to come here. 200 innings, wants to win, no baggage. Then with a little luck Lester becomes that 15+ game winner we always expected.


    Agree that the current starting pitchers have to improve next season.  If not we will have another disappointing season.  Signing at least one good/elite starting pitcher for next season should be a top priority. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Hi moon. I certainly think we do not need a cy young (though it would be great) but we need a pitcher such as Shields to come here. 200 innings, wants to win, no baggage. Then with a little luck Lester becomes that 15+ game winner we always expected.



    I think Shields is a good target, but only has 2 years of control left, and will cost us some top prospects. I have mentioned his name before, and added the fact that they appear to really need a catcher and 1Bman. Perhaps, they want Lavarnway and Gomez, Shaw, or Cecchini (move to 1B?). It will take more than this to get Shields for sure, but I think we can out-offer anyone else in MLB.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    And in the 60 years I have been following they have had some pretty bad pitching.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to MichFan's comment:

    And in the 60 years I have been following they have had some pretty bad pitching.

     



    ...and this was the worst from a starting rotation point of view. There is little reason to think it will get much better on its own or with a new manager and pitching coach. We need outside help or a couple kids to rise quickly and strongly.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    Also, Clay Buchholz's ERA of 4.56 was the worst ever for the ERA leader among the starting pitchers (minimum of 15 starts).

    It was encouraging to see Buch get it together at the end of the year, but other than Morales, I really don't have a lot of confidence in any other returning starter. (Even Franklin has issues.)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    This problem is not new. Since 2007 our illustrious "top five" GM either ignored or was incompetent to correct the deteriorating pitching. Thats FIVE YEARS of going downhill with no solution, no corrective action. Its a testament to Theo's legacy here, a veritable documentary on his incompetence. In any event, this is the mess he left us with. I am not in favor of a short term solution like signing a high priced #2 SP like Shields (he is high priced in terms of the prospects he will cost) or getting more offense to prop up the W-L record. The team has to identify, acquire, and retain good or great pitching prospects above all other strategies and hope that in 2-3 years a real contender can be born and maintained for several years.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    ...The team has to identify, acquire, and retain good or great pitching prospects above all other strategies and hope that in 2-3 years a real contender can be born and maintained for several years.

    I couldn't agree more.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    moon the point was you advocated to bring Wakefiled back. Tell us how he would have helped the team in 2012? Answer: He wouldn't. Like 2011 he would have been part of the problem and not the solution.

    Stop drinking softy's Kool-Aid and think for yourself on this one. 

    I wanted us to offer Wake a contract that included incentives to be our 6th starter.

    As it turned out, had Wake repeated 2011 in 2012, it would have been an improvement over several of our 2012 starters, but no, it would not have mattered in the overall scheme of things, just like starting Miller instead of Wake last year wouldn't have changed a thing either.

    Why don't you ask your buddy, softy, why Wake was the reason we lost last year because his ERA was 5.12, but now that our whole staff had an ERA of 5.19, we don't need to fix the staff? Isn't that a more pertinent question? Are you afraid to stand up to the mighty clown?



    Wake and Lackey were horrible last season but the point is we didn't improve a lick without either one of them in 2012 so we need to make better choices.  It was definately time for Wake to retire, we also needed to trade Beckett and eventually Lackey at some point. 

    Age, injuries, rehab projects and bad attitudes all on the same club won't make a winning combination.  We can't predict injuries but can certainly address the other issues. 

     


     

     

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    Age, injuries, rehab projects and bad attitudes all on the same club won't make a winning combination. We can't predict injuries but can certainly address the other issues.

    Actually, we should "predict injuries" and plan accordingly. Last winter, I said over and over that counting on Beckett, Lester, and Buchholtz to stay healthy and perform well all season long was a losing strategy. We had some pretty good 4/5/6 slot starter types on the team, but we really needed to try and acquire a solid #1/2 slot type starter last winter to give us a shot at 2012. As it turned out, even 2 of these type pick-ups might not have been enough.

    2013 is even more so. We need to jump at opportunities to acquire some solid young starters or starter prospects under team control for 2-3+ years. We drafted quite a few this past draft and traded for Webster & de la Rosa. That's a good start. Even getting Stewart, Carpenter, de la Torres and a few others might amount to something positive. We need to keep focusing in this area... for sure!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Age, injuries, rehab projects and bad attitudes all on the same club won't make a winning combination. We can't predict injuries but can certainly address the other issues.

    Actually, we should "predict injuries" and plan accordingly. Last winter, I said over and over that counting on Beckett, Lester, and Buchholtz to stay healthy and perform well all season long was a losing strategy. We had some pretty good 4/5/6 slot starter types on the team, but we really needed to try and acquire a solid #1/2 slot type starter last winter to give us a shot at 2012. As it turned out, even 2 of these type pick-ups might not have been enough.

    2013 is even more so. We need to jump at opportunities to acquire some solid young starters or starter prospects under team control for 2-3+ years. We drafted quite a few this past draft and traded for Webster & de la Rosa. That's a good start. Even getting Stewart, Carpenter, de la Torres and a few others might amount to something positive. We need to keep focusing in this area... for sure!

    Most of us stated our team needed more pitching going into last season moon.  The problem on the injury front has been everywhere including pitching for this club.  I agree we need to begin building for the future.  Relying on aging veterans like Tek and Wake, or rehab projects to get us buy is not an answer.  Neither is waiting for players like Salty to improve in other areas beyond next season unless our lineup vastly improves around him. 


     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Hi moon. I certainly think we do not need a cy young (though it would be great) but we need a pitcher such as Shields to come here. 200 innings, wants to win, no baggage. Then with a little luck Lester becomes that 15+ game winner we always expected.



    I think Shields is a good target, but only has 2 years of control left, and will cost us some top prospects. I have mentioned his name before, and added the fact that they appear to really need a catcher and 1Bman. Perhaps, they want Lavarnway and Gomez, Shaw, or Cecchini (move to 1B?). It will take more than this to get Shields for sure, but I think we can out-offer anyone else in MLB.



    Tampa Bay is not trading James Shields to Boston.  No chance.  "James Shields may be available, but the Rays aren't going to deal with Boston."  Quote from Nick Cafardo this morning in the baseball notes column.  I don't agree with a lot Cafardo suggests, but I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp that teams aren't going to trade top of the rotation type pitchers within their own division, especially when teams now play nearly half of their schedule against divisional opponents. 

    People can keep coming up with as many trade proposals for Shields as they want, but the "reality" is, it's not going to happen.  Forget the three team trade as well, as Tampa isn't going to allow Shields to end up in their own division...   

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    These are some grim numbers.

    2012 Red Sox ERA for starting pitching was the worst in franchise history.

    2012 5.19
    1932 5.16
    1925 5.08
    1940 5.04
    1996 5.01
    2006 5.00

    Those are all the years the ERA was 5 or over.

    Also, Clay Buchholz's ERA of 4.56 was the worst ever for the ERA leader among the starting pitchers (minimum of 15 starts).

    2012 4.56
    1926 4.22
    2005 4.15
    1927 4.10
    1983 4.04
    1964 4.04



    It's amazing how far those pitchers went to make Bobby V look bad. It does bode well for next year though, as long as they want to pitch for the new manager. R   

     
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