2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?:
    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why? : I hope not. You do qualify for forum FA - but the rules must be altered to accommodate your allegiance. Of course, if you are reborn...
    Posted by harness


    I could like the RS (as I did as a kid), but I would still like the NYY more. Sort of a sacri-religious oxymoron to many I'm sure. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Guvnor. Show Guvnor's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    drew, cam, dmac, scoot  - gone, in fact 3 of them should go now so we can get some youth and hunger on the roster.

    papi - yes , 2 yrs 18-20m, for those saying no, you want him playing 81 games bombing that short porch in right field at you-know-where, rather than 9 for us?

    tek - depends on the young catchers, if none of them are ready, then its another year for the C.

    pap - yes, pay him top closer dollar, he is a top closer, and our pen is shaky as is, cant afford to lose him.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    In Response to 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?:
    Wakefield NUSoxfan, phxvlsoxfan , craze4, diamondtalk,JB3,Bojo Varitek NUSoxfan, Space, JB12, diamondtalk,JB3 Ortiz NUSoxfan, phxvlsoxfan , space, JB12, craze4, diamondtalk,JB3,Bojo Drew Cameron Papelbon JB12,JB3 Scutaro I'm going to reserve my comments until this esteemed Board of gentlemen has commented. For those drive-by stalking drones, please deposit your spamming drivel in the green fuels recycle depot at your local precinct ward. All military corpseman from the 59 states, your comments are particularly desired for the greatest thread import. I also tally the numbers on each player: Wakefield 6 votes to bring back (he'll obviously take a one year deal)               2 votes to let go Vtek        5 votes to bring back (either way I'm happy is a yea vote)               3 votes to let go Ortiz       8 votes to bring back (7-10M good year end numbers is a yea vote)              0 votes to let go Papelbon  2 votes to bring back               6 votes to let go Drew       0 vote to bring back              8 votes to let go Cameron  0 vote to bring back              8 votes to let go Scutaro   0 votes to bring back              4 votes to let go Note: I'm going to put the poster names by the players they want back for 2012 Also, any vacillating about "comes down to the money" or "market cost" or "what the rotation looks like when the snow falls"  is a no vote. "50/50" is a maybe vote and thus, a no vote. "At least 50/50 is a yes vote. This isn't a thread where your views are evolving until after the next election. Leave the fence to politicians.
    Posted by betterredthandead
    will take back wake and tek if remain in relative good health this year. we should then go after reyes. ifwe cant get him, u fall bak to scutaro on a 2 year deal and bring back lowrie for same old cycle. or perhaps we can go with navarro at ss. dre?..HA! even he would take the vets minimum and a minor league deal, u say NO! adios to the rest!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    it's time for Iglesias and Navarro to get their shot (Jed as the utility IF'er)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Mr. Moon are you expecting a major improvement between now and the end of ST?

    I am sure you are aware of the numbers:

    AAA        54 games   9 errors   2 Dbls    8 BB    30 K    .492  OPS
    Arizona    17 games   1 Dbl   2 BB  7 K   .575 OPS     

    I am surprised that anyone can think Iglesias's development as a hitter is worth risking by promoting him without at least a modicum of success at AAA.

    I hope he performs better in the short term, barring that he is not even close on current form.
     
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    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

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    it's time for Iglesias and Navarro to get their shot (Jed as the utility IF'er) Posted by moonslav59
    Mr. Moon are you expecting a major improvement between now and the end of ST? I am sure you are aware of the numbers: AAA        54 games   9 errors   2 Dbls    8 BB    30 K    .492  OPS Arizona    17 games   1 Dbl   2 BB  7 K   .575 OPS      I am surprised that anyone can think Iglesias's development as a hitter is worth risking by promoting him without at least a modicum of success at AAA. I hope he performs better in the short term, barring that he is not even close on current form.
    Posted by tom-uk


    Lavarnway is playing better than Iglesias or Navarro.  If these guys deserve to play over Lowrie and Scutaro then Ryan should be our back up catcher at the very least.
 
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    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    I'd like to cast the first vote for Cameron coming back.  In fact, sign him now for $1M before his numbers turn around.  We're going to need Cameron if next year's OF is Crawford, Ellsbury & Kalish / Reddick.  Though I'm not convinced Ellsbury is coming back.

    I want Ortiz back too.  I would like Papelbon back, but not for the money he will try to get.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    Just curious moonslav,

    I can tell you are a huge Jason supporter but if you feel its time for Navarro and Iglesias to get their chance "which I agree with" even though Iglesias has yet to prove himself offensively.  Why should we re-sign Jason? 

    Because he may still be the best back-up catcher in MLB today and we win when he catches. Plus, he helps Salty grow.

    Lavarnway continues to hit everyone and we already know he has a stronger and more accuarate arm than Salty or Jason by what he has already accomplished.  His catching skills are also pretty good according to most reports.  By seasons end Salty will have had more than enough time around Jason to learn our staff and hitters around the league.  I would rather our team become younger and better at every available position.  Lavarnway could C or DH and save us Jasons salary to use elsewhere.

    I have read that besides his arm, he is not a good catcher. He may be a year away. Having 3 catchers is not a bad thing.

    VTek will not get paid a lot. 
     
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    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?:
    Just curious moonslav, I can tell you are a huge Jason supporter but if you feel its time for Navarro and Iglesias to get their chance "which I agree with" even though Iglesias has yet to prove himself offensively.  Why should we re-sign Jason?  Because he may still be the best back-up catcher in MLB today and we win when he catches. Plus, he helps Salty grow. Lavarnway continues to hit everyone and we already know he has a stronger and more accuarate arm than Salty or Jason by what he has already accomplished.  His catching skills are also pretty good according to most reports.  By seasons end Salty will have had more than enough time around Jason to learn our staff and hitters around the league.  I would rather our team become younger and better at every available position.  Lavarnway could C or DH and save us Jasons salary to use elsewhere. I have read that besides his arm, he is not a good catcher. He may be a year away. Having 3 catchers is not a bad thing. VTek will not get paid a lot. 
    Posted by moonslav59


    I'm glad Jason is giving us a little more offense so far and respect what he has done for the team but don't want him to stand in the way of Lavarnways growth.  Most reports I have read including his own manager say Ryan has been doing well defensively.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Ryan compared to Fisk before his career is over if he continues behind the plate.  He has all the tools at an early age even if he does need some work defensively.

     
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    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    it's time for Iglesias and Navarro to get their shot (Jed as the utility IF'er)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Mr. Moon are you expecting a major improvement between now and the end of ST?

    I am sure you are aware of the numbers:

    AAA        54 games   9 errors   2 Dbls    8 BB    30 K    .492  OPS
    Arizona    17 games   1 Dbl   2 BB  7 K   .575 OPS     

    I am surprised that anyone can think Iglesias's development as a hitter is worth risking by promoting him without at least a modicum of success at AAA.

    I hope he performs better in the short term, barring that he is not even close on current form.

    tom, I have gone over this before.

    1) I am talking next year, not this.
    2) I think Iglesias makes up for his 50 less hits by saving 60+ over a year.
    3) The money saved at SS could be used to upgrade elsewhere.
    4) SS is the most important defensive position at every level of baseball.

    I have never said he has "developed as a hitter" anytime or anywhere. I'd be happy with stellar defense and a .230 BA at SS.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    Mr Moon I never claimed you said he was developed as a hitter.  What I can't fathom is that you think it is ok to let him attempt to become a hitter in the majors.

    In his last 300 or so AB he has had 3 XBH (Ari , ST, and 2011). The worst player in MLB at XBH is Brignac with 3 in 147 AB.  Iglesias has hit the same amount of XBH  as the weakest hitting player in MLB in twice the AB.
     
    I know the argument about runs saved and it has merit. I am not questioning it.  What is best for the team and best for Iglesias may be two different things.  Many go with the Iglesias for 2012 because they read it in the off-season, that plan is changing at the moment just like it did with Lars Anderson.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    V-Tek - Yes, until somebody replaces Salty

    Ortiz - They had better, or he will be crushing balls for the Yankees. 

    Drew - He will retire, end of story. 

    Cameron - Uhh ... no way. 

    Paps - Absolutely, within reason. If he wants outrageous money and length of contract, then no.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    Mr Moon I never claimed you said he was developed as a hitter.  

    No, but this sounds like you assume I am basing my judegment on his hitting developing: I am not.

    I am surprised that anyone can think Iglesias's development as a hitter is worth risking by promoting him without at least a modicum of success at AAA.

    What I can't fathom is that you think it is ok to let him attempt to become a hitter in the majors.

    I think you are missing my point. I don't care if he never "becomes" a "hitter" as long as he takes away 60-100 hits per season over the average SS. It cancels out the poor offense and saves us a lot of money that would be needed to get a top hitting SS through free agency or trade.

    In his last 300 or so AB he has had 3 XBH (Ari , ST, and 2011). The worst player in MLB at XBH is Brignac with 3 in 147 AB.  Iglesias has hit the same amount of XBH  as the weakest hitting player in MLB in twice the AB.
     
    I know the argument about runs saved and it has merit. I am not questioning it.  What is best for the team and best for Iglesias may be two different things.  Many go with the Iglesias for 2012 because they read it in the off-season, that plan is changing at the moment just like it did with Lars Anderson.

    I understand if you don't agree with my "hits saved" position. I happen to think the differential between the best and worst fielding SSs in MLB is very very large. I am trusting he would be one of the very best fielders.

    I also think Navarro could get time there as well.

    I am not happy with Jed's fielding at SS, but having him on the roster next year provides coverage and offensive replacement value.

    Between the 3, I think we'd be OK. The money saved could be used to upgrade the pen, help find a RH'd OF'er or something else.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from lifelongsoxdawg. Show lifelongsoxdawg's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    I pretty much agree with the other posters on all the other players except for Pap. I think Paps is going to be asking for too much money and perhaps with another year under his belt, Bard will be ready to assume that role at a much smaller price tag no doubt.

    Having said that, we would be loosing Bard as our setup pitcher and I don't feel comfortable with Jenks in that role and he hasn't shown me anything to convience me that he should be the closer next year. He appears to be injury prone. Therefore insert Bard as the closer next year and look for a setup man in the off-season and let Jenks go if he only signed for 1 year. (not sure) 
     
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    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?:
    I believe some of the veteran regulars here do become FA's next year. Moon : Bring him back at the right price - with a clause that he must not personally attend any games for three years. Softy: No. Unless he takes a course in CRAWBURY and serves as Wake's butler for 3 months Harness : Conflict of interest. I demand my Captain stripes and a nifty negotiating fee. Zilla : Yes, if he can stay positive for 3 posts in a row. Spaceman : Yes. A no-brainer. But Yoshi must be part of this deal. Pike: No way in hell. Not even if he talks baseball once a month. Summer : Yes. His longevity rivals Wake's. Others have to be here 5 years or more w/o a ban to qualify for Free Agency.
    Posted by harness


    But Softy isn't a FA yet due to his repeated bannings.....
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?:
    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why? : I nearly forgot... and I don't want to forget this wager.... especially because I am going to win.... 2 of 3 will be gone.
    Posted by BurritoT



    Oh, you can bet I'll be reminding you. And since you are sure you will be victorious, would you care to up the anti? How about say 6 weeks self-imposed ban?
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?:
    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why? : But Softy isn't a FA yet due to his repeated bannings.....
    Posted by JB-3


    I know, but the idea of him serving Wake was irresistible.
     
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    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?:
    In Response to Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why? : I know, but the idea of him serving Wake was irresistible.
    Posted by harness


    Ah yes, and you have to appreciate the irony of Softy acting like a "union slug" to get his first big FA deal.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    I think you are missing my point. I don't care if he never "becomes" a "hitter

    Short term thinking is rarely best for the player or the team that has him under control.  The longer term view is wait until he is ready at the plate and delay the clock on FA.  That way the Sox have a more complete player for the same amount of years.

    Hill55 posted some quotes about Y. Betancourt as a minor leaguer. Scouts said he was amazing with the glove and range to spare. He has been awful both on defense and with the bat.

     
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    Re: 2012 Red Sox Veteran FA Class: Who do you want back? Why? Who does Theo want back? Why?

    Lowrie is awful both on defense and against RHP, and has the constitution of a panic attack disorder.
     
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