2012 Sox Depth Chart

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    2012 Sox Depth Chart

    C: Salty-Shoppach-Lava-Exposito-Swihart-Vazquez
    DH: Papi-Lava-Youk
    1B: AGon-Salty-Lava-Papi-Andeson-Head
    2B: Pedey-Aviles-Punto-Tejada-Coyle
    3B: Youk-(Scutaro)-Aviles-PuntoMiddlebrooks-Cecchini-Vitek
    SS: Scut-Aviles-Punto-Igglesias-Bogaerts-Vinicio
    LF: Craw-DMac-Lava-Punto-Aviles-Redd
    CF: Ellsb-DMac-Reddick-Kalish
    RF: Redd-DMac-Kalish
        OF:Linares-Lin-Nava-Brentz-Jacobs-Bradley-Hassan-Ramos-Hazelbaker

    SP: Beck-Lest-Buch-(Dice)-(Lack)-Taz-Doub-
            -Wilson-Ranaudo-Barnes-Britton-Pimentel
          -Owens-Alcantara-Kukuk-Workman-Montas-Ramirez
    Pen: Bard (starter?)-Acev (starter?)-Melancon-Jenks-Albers-Hill-Morales-
            Bowden-Atchison

    Of all these positions, which ones do we have the most qualified or most skilled MLB-ready depth?

    I ask this, because I think we may have to seriously think about trading a valuable "everyday player" for some pitching help. A higher emphasis might be placed on higher salaried players, in order to free up more money that could be spent on further improvement of the staff.

    Here are some examples:

    Trade ('12 cost)     Replace with_____________
    Youk    (12.25M)    Scutaro/Punto/Aviles/Middlebrooks
    Scutty  ($6M)         Iggy/Punto/Aviles
    Jenks    ($6M)        Bowden/Atchison/Wilson
    Salty      ($arb)       Lava/Exposito (sign a cheap back-up)
    Ellsbury ($arb)       DMac/Kalish
    Iggy       ($2.1M)     Bogee
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    Of course, Pedey and Gonzo are untouchable, Crawford is probably untradeable, probably don't get much for Reddick, understand the arguments for trading Ells but I want to keep him, don't know if you get a lot for Scutoro, looks like Youk would be the guy in this scenario, replace with Punto and Aviles until Middlebrooks arrives.
    ps. thought we already signed a back-up catcher
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    ps. thought we already signed a back-up catcher

    If we traded Salty, Ben might not feel comfortable with Shop and Lava, and so might sign a cheap back-up type catcher who hits righties well to platoon with Shop.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    I can't see us trading Salty.  We spent years coveting this guy, has a decent season (Okay, he faded down the stretch.  But, it was also his 1st time playing that many games in a taxing position as catcher) then we trade him?

    Youk has been everyones popular choice in this discussion.  I absolutely loved what I saw from Aviles last year and now we Punto on top of that.  But, how much would Youk bring back?   He is getting older, has been hurt some lately, and is making 12+ mill.  I don't see real great quality in return.  Particularly from a position as valuable as a starting pitcher.

    I don't see a major need for SP anyways.  I am not saying we can't use one, but it is not as dire as most are saying.  We already have 3 quality guys.  If only 1 of the 2 work out between Bard and Aceves that would give us 4.  Not too many staffs go 5 deep of all quality starters.  Plus, on a team like the Sox who score a lot of runs, going 5 deep is even a less of priority that it is to most other teams.

    Yes, we can use another starter, just as we can use a right handed hitter for the OF.   But, not a real major concern.

     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    I can't see us trading Salty.  We spent years coveting this guy, has a decent season (Okay, he faded down the stretch.  But, it was also his 1st time playing that many games in a taxing position as catcher) then we trade him?

    1) I agree. He probably won't be traded.
    2) It may have been Theo that coveted him, not Ben.
    3) Lava is the most MLB-ready prospect we have, so the "dwongrade" from Salty to Lava coule be offset by the gain we get from the relief pitcher we get for Salty.


    Youk has been everyones popular choice in this discussion.  I absolutely loved what I saw from Aviles last year and now we Punto on top of that.  But, how much would Youk bring back?   He is getting older, has been hurt some lately, and is making 12+ mill.  I don't see real great quality in return.  Particularly from a position as valuable as a starting pitcher.

    There are 2 teams who last or will lose a huge 1Bman from 2011 and still want to compete in 2012: StL & Milw. Other teams may have a quality 3-4 starter making $8-9M that they could afford to give up for a boost in offense.

    I don't see a major need for SP anyways.  I am not saying we can't use one, but it is not as dire as most are saying.  We already have 3 quality guys.  If only 1 of the 2 work out between Bard and Aceves that would give us 4.  Not too many staffs go 5 deep of all quality starters.  Plus, on a team like the Sox who score a lot of runs, going 5 deep is even a less of priority that it is to most other teams. 

    I'd rather keep Bard or Aceves in the pen. (Actually, I'd prefer both stay.) Last year we used about 10 starters. I also am not so certain our top 3 will all be healthy and in form.

    Yes, we can use another starter, just as we can use a right handed hitter for the OF.   But, not a real major concern.

    If Bard and Aceves are starters, then we need 2-3 more pen arms to be a top third tier pitching team.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart:
    [QUOTE]I can't see us trading Salty.  We spent years coveting this guy, has a decent season (Okay, he faded down the stretch.  But, it was also his 1st time playing that many games in a taxing position as catcher) then we trade him? Youk has been everyones popular choice in this discussion.  I absolutely loved what I saw from Aviles last year and now we Punto on top of that.  But, how much would Youk bring back?   He is getting older, has been hurt some lately, and is making 12+ mill.  I don't see real great quality in return.  Particularly from a position as valuable as a starting pitcher. I don't see a major need for SP anyways.  I am not saying we can't use one, but it is not as dire as most are saying.  We already have 3 quality guys.  If only 1 of the 2 work out between Bard and Aceves that would give us 4.  Not too many staffs go 5 deep of all quality starters.  Plus, on a team like the Sox who score a lot of runs, going 5 deep is even a less of priority that it is to most other teams. Yes, we can use another starter, just as we can use a right handed hitter for the OF.   But, not a real major concern.  
    Posted by sjddaj[/QUOTE]

    No, we need more pitching alright--we're in the same division as New York and Tampa--Tampa has like 7 or 8 quality starters.  We've finished 3rd and out of the playoffs two years in a row because of injuries to pitchers and we're already w/out 2 starters for 2012 (granted, in Lackey's case that me be a blessing).
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    Is losing Youk worth a #4 or #5 starter?  Maybe a #4.  I wouldn't say he is worth a #5 though.

    Agree Moon about needing 2-3 more pen arms.  Especailly when many times they are a crapshoot to begin with.  But starters?  Not as bad as amny are saying.

    Yes, we finished 3rd 2 years in a row.  But, that was due more to injuries, attitudes, guys not being in best shape, etc.  Not the quality of players themselves.  All of these things will hopefully be taken care of with the new manager and coaching staffs. 

    Tampa has 7-8 starters, but they also have one of the worst offenses in baseball.  Their pitching is much more important to them.  How many quality starters did the Yankees have this past year?  Not 7.  But, they won the division.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    In Response to 2012 Sox Depth Chart:
    [QUOTE]C: Salty-Shoppach-Lava- Exposito-Swihart-Vazquez DH: Papi-Lava-Youk 1B: AGon-Salty-Lava-Papi- Andeson-Head 2B: Pedey-Aviles-Punto- Tejada-Coyle 3B: Youk-(Scutaro)-Aviles-Punto Middlebrooks-Cecchini-Vitek SS: Scut-Aviles-Punto- Igglesias-Bogaerts-Vinicio LF: Craw-DMac-Lava-Punto-Aviles-Redd CF: Ellsb-DMac-Reddick- Kalish RF: Redd-DMac- Kalish     OF: Linares-Lin-Nava-Brentz-Jacobs-Bradley-Hassan-Ramos-Hazelbaker SP: Beck-Lest-Buch-(Dice)-(Lack) -Taz-Doub-         - Wilson-Ranaudo-Barnes-Britton-Pimentel       -Owens-Alcantara-Kukuk-Workman-Montas-Ramirez Pen: Bard (starter?)-Acev (starter?)-Melancon-Jenks-Albers-Hill-Morales-         Bowden-Atchison Of all these positions, which ones do we have the most qualified or most skilled MLB-ready depth? I ask this, because I think we may have to seriously think about trading a valuable "everyday player" for some pitching help. A higher emphasis might be placed on higher salaried players, in order to free up more money that could be spent on further improvement of the staff. Here are some examples: Trade ('12 cost)     Replace with_____________ Youk    (12.25M)    Scutaro/Punto/Aviles/Middlebrooks Scutty  ($6M)         Iggy/Punto/Aviles Jenks    ($6M)        Bowden/Atchison/Wilson Salty      ($arb)       Lava/Exposito (sign a cheap back-up) Ellsbury ($arb)       DMac/Kalish Iggy       ($2.1M)     Bogee
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that Atchison took a powder as he declared himself a FA after finishing in the minors. However you can add Tony Pena JR's name to the list of viable relief pitchers. Also Matt Fox left via the same train that Atchison took minor league free agency.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart:
    [QUOTE]In Response to 2012 Sox Depth Chart : I'm pretty sure that Atchison took a powder as he declared himself a FA after finishing in the minors. However you can add Tony Pena JR's name to the list of viable relief pitchers. Also Matt Fox left via the same train that Atchison took minor league free agency.
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]

    Atchison is still showing up on the roster list on redsox.com  His option was declined but he was arb eligible.  I can't find any news of him being released, so I assume he was offered arb, since they offered it to everyone other than Hill.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jb12bb. Show jb12bb's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    To the guy who says Youk is not worth a #5 starter, I think 20-25 GM's would disagree, he can still hit and would hold up better in the AL as he could see time at 1B and DH.  I dont think 3B is good for him at this stage of his career.

    The feeling is if Papi moves on after 2012 then Youk could slide to the DH and possibly Middlebrooks will be ready for fulltime action.  I doubt the RS will do that seeing that Iglesias projects as the starter in 2013.  There is no way that they will go with two rookies on the left side. 

    Trading Lowrie shows a lot of faith in Avilas and the newly signed Nick Punto.  Avilas will see time at 3B, 2B, SS, and OF and Punto will see 2B, SS, and 3B.  I like the versatility that the bench will have this season.

    If I am the RS I keep Iglesias and Kalish at AAA to start the season and let them get another year of seasoning.  RF can be filled with Reddick and Avilas with possibly Ryan Ludwick being had for under 6 million per over two years.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    He is not worth a #5 to us.  I would rather have Youk than your normal #5 starter.  Now, if we can get a #4 starter him, then "maybe". 

    He can still hit, and would hold up in the AL.  That is why I wouldn't except someone who would be slated as a #5 guy.  For the most part, they don't carry a whole of value.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Depth Chart

    Tampa has 7-8 starters, but they also have one of the worst offenses in baseball.  Their pitching is much more important to them.  How many quality starters did the Yankees have this past year?  Not 7.  But, they won the division.

    True, but look at these numbers:
    #1 Sab  33 starts
    #2 Bur  33
    #3 Hug 17
    #4 Gar  26
    #5 Col  29
    #6 Nov 27

    #7-9: ONLY 5 Starts!
    I wish we could have said the same.

    NYY 2010:
    Sab  34
    Bur  33
    Hug  29
    Vaz  26
    Pet  21
    Mos  9
    Nov  7
    Mitr  3
    10 at & after 7
    none after #8

    2009:
    4 starters with 31-33 starts!

    TB in 2011
    Shields  33  (249 IP)
    Price      34  (224)
    Hellick   29
    Davis    29
    Niem     23
    Cobb     9
    Sonn     4
    Moore   1
    none after #8
    Only 14 starts after their top 5 starters.

    2010:
    5 starters with 29-33 starts
    #6 Hellick  4
    #7 Sonnan 4
    That's it.
    8 starts after their top 5.
    TB has the starting pitcher depth, but rarely has had to use it!

    2009: Shilds, Garza, Nieman 31-33
    #4 Price  23
    #5 Kazm  20
    #6 Sonn   18
    #7 Davis   6
    That's it.

    Look at how many starts these two teams get (or better, don't get) from their 7th or worse starters.  

    Now look at the Sox:
    2011:
    1 Beck  30
    2 Lest   31
    3 Buch  14
    4 Dice     7
    5 Lack   28
    6 Bed      8
    7 Wake 23
    8 Miller 12
    9 Weila  5
    10 Acev 4

    Not only did our 3 and 4 starters miss 40 starts, we got 40+ starts from out #7 and worse.

    2010:
    1 Beck  21
    2 Lest   32
    3 Buch  28
    4 Dice   25
    5 Lack  33
    6 Wake 19
    7 Doub  3
    8 Atch   1

    A much better year, but injuries on offense killed us.

    2009:
    1 Beck  32
    2 Lest   32
    3 Dice   12
    4 Penn  24
    5 Wake 21
    6 Smolt  8
    7 Mast    6 (Traded)
    8 Buch  16
    9 Byrd    6
    10 Taz    4
    11 Bow  1
     33 starts from #7 and lower.

    2008:
    27-33 starts from our top 4 (Beck, Lest, Dice, Wake)
    #5 Colon  7
    #6 Mast   9
    #7 Buch  16
    #8 Byrd    8
    #9 Pauley 2
    #10 Bowd 1
    #11 Zink   1

    28 starts from #7 down

    Now look at 2007, see the difference?
    1 Beck  30
    2 Schill  24
    3 Dice   32
    4 Wake 31
    5 Tavar 23
    6 Lester 11
    7 Gabb    7 (traded)
    8 Buch    3
    9 Hansack 1

    Only 10 starts from #7 down.



     

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