2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

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    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    I think Ellsbury probably does a little better in arb. Maybe even almost $9 mil.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    I could be wrong, but players often get way less than their worth when they still have 2-3 arb years left. They tend to get pretty good deals their last arb year.
     
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    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:
    I think Ellsbury probably does a little better in arb. Maybe even almost $9 mil.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    Ehh I don't know about that high... especially after missing almost all of 2010.  I'm thinking $6-$7.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

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    Moonslow, lying for you is like Clinton. I never said the Rays would " go away" in 2010. You are lying to save your own embarrassment.

    As for leadoff, you make a big deal about it. It's not a bid deal. A player only leads off, for sure, one time in a game. Career numbers are not wide enough to be meaningful at all. You're now in a mode where you simply lead a herd of idiots. At one time, you weren't as inclined to ape all the time. Now, becuase you are so clueless on so many issues, you feel the need to protect your ego by arguing for the sake of saving face.

    "No one has been more wrong than" is intellectually shallow hyperbole. In fact, few have been more out to lunch than you.

    Popularity is important to you. It means nothing to me. Unless most posters are angry becuase of a comment I've made, I would be a liar. Like you.

    Fact is that Kemp and Crawford is greater than Ellsbury and Crawford. And the fact is that Ellsbury and Crawford are the same type of player. You catonically saying otherwise is a complete reversal. Absurd to pay Crawford 142M if true intention was to extend or sign Ellsbury as a FA. It won't happen now, that's for sure.

    NL isn't AAAA. See Giants and Phillies.

    As for Kemp, this stupid board was claiming AGon wasn't going to be trade over the spring because of ticket sales. You are the same dimwit who claimed Twins coudn't afford Mauer. Don't even talk to me about trades. You don't have a clue who was on the table in past trades. And you don't have a clue about Kemp's availability.

    Bottom line, danny isn't scared to agree that a star slugging young Rh bat would greatly improve an OF that has zilch in that department.

    If you want to disagree for the sake of attracting a fan club, don't bother insulting my intelligence.

    And knock off the juvenile delinquent "clown" name calling. You are a dim wit who has never done anything but seek crowd approval.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:
    Moonslow, lying for you is like Clinton. I never said the Rays would " go away" in 2010. You are lying to save your own embarrassment. As for leadoff, you make a big deal about it. It's not a bid deal. A player only leads off, for sure, one time in a game. Career numbers are not wide enough to be meaningful at all. You're now in a mode where you simply lead a herd of idiots. At one time, you weren't as inclined to ape all the time. Now, becuase you are so clueless on so many issues, you feel the need to protect your ego by arguing for the sake of saving face. "No one has been more wrong than" is intellectually shallow hyperbole. In fact, few have been more out to lunch than you. Popularity is important to you. It means nothing to me. Unless most posters are angry becuase of a comment I've made, I would be a liar. Like you. Fact is that Kemp and Crawford is greater than Ellsbury and Crawford. And the fact is that Ellsbury and Crawford are the same type of player. You catonically saying otherwise is a complete reversal. Absurd to pay Crawford 142M if true intention was to extend or sign Ellsbury as a FA. It won't happen now, that's for sure. NL isn't AAAA. See Giants and Phillies. As for Kemp, this stupid board was claiming AGon wasn't going to be trade over the spring because of ticket sales. You are the same dimwit who claimed Twins coudn't afford Mauer. Don't even talk to me about trades. You don't have a clue who was on the table in past trades. And you don't have a clue about Kemp's availability. Bottom line, danny isn't scared to agree that a star slugging young Rh bat would greatly improve an OF that has zilch in that department. If you want to disagree for the sake of attracting a fan club, don't bother insulting my intelligence. And knock off the juvenile delinquent "clown" name calling. You are a dim wit who has never done anything but seek crowd approval.
    Posted by softylaw


    Softy at his finest.
     
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    Enter Larry, as in Moe, Larry and Curly.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from javaukti. Show javaukti's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:
    Being branded (BIG PAPI) he has added value for the Sox. Maybe even more to the Yankees. Perhaps they retaliate for Theo's offer to Mariano. ...The Yanks may need to keep the DH slot open for ARod. They need ARod's bat more than his glove and have a lot of money invested in him.
    Posted by moonslav59


    True, but A-Rod is good for another year or two at 3B.

    Do you think the NYY wd go after Paps? They're about the only team around that could swallow his contract. They still have all that unused Lee $$$ to spend. I don't think they will with Riviera still there. An aging Mo is still one of the best, it seems.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

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    In Response to 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:
    I'm not sure why they closed this thread after just a few hours, so here it is again... According to Cot's Baseball Contracts the Sox started this season at a Payroll of about $164M (counting pro-rated signing bonuses). There will be some arb induced raises: Ellsbury $2.4M /> ? (Arb 2 of 3) Albers    $875K > ? (Arb 3 of 4) Salty      $750K > ? (Arb 1 of 3) Aceves  $650K > ? (Arb 1 of 3) Bard       $505K > ? (Arb 1 of 4) DMac      $470K > ? (Arb 1 of 4) Lowrie    $450K > ? (Arb 1 of 3) Morales $424K > ? (Arb 1 of 3) There are options: Scutaro  $6M club option/$3M player option ($1.5M buy out) Wheeler $3M club option (guaranteed if 65 games pitched reached) A. Miller  $3m club option ? (some gray area here) There are FreeAgents: JD Drew    $14M   Ortiz          $12.5M Papelbon  $10.33M Varitek      $2M Wakefield $2M Bedard      $1M I think it is obvious that Drew will not be back. The other free agents will probably get offers from Theo. Who will be type A and type B might have something to do with how much Theo offers, but I think he will make fair market offers to all but JD (and maybe Bedard). See below. I think Theo does not give Scutaro the club option, so if Scutty is back, it will be at $3M. I think Wheeler is not given his option, and I am not sure what the deal is with Miller anymore. I think the arb induced raises will not be very large. None of the players are in their last arb year. Ellsbury and Salty will get nice raises, but not grand. Albers, Aceves, and Bard will do OK also. My numbers may be wrong here, and my projections as well, but I'll say the arb guys get a total of $7M more in 2012 than in 2011. If Scutty ($7M on luxury tax role) and Wheeler ($3M) do not come back, that saves us about $10M. Assuming we bring Miller back, my guess is we will be evened out on arbs and options. My projections on Free Agents: Drew ($14M) walks Papi ($12.5M) signs with Boston for $20M/2 plus incentives Paps (10.33M) walks (Theo gets the type A compensation) VTek ($2M) signs with Boston (perhaps a lifetime services deal) $2M/1 Wake ($2.5M) signs with Boston for $2.5M plus incentives. Free agent net cost: $27M gain (lose Paps and Drew). Assuming we keep the salary budget about the same as 2011, we'll have about $25-30M to spend on these holes (Possible in house solutions): Closer: (Bard? Jenks?)  SS: (Aviles, Lowrie, Iglesias) RF: (Reddick, Kalish, DMac) RP: (several options) If we sign no FAs (not likely) and let Papelbon and Wheeler walk, this could be our 2012 roster: C: Salty/Vtek 1B: AGon 2B: Pedey 3B: Youk SS: Aviles/Lowrie LF: Craw/DMac CF: Ells RF: Reddick/Kalish DH: Papi (Possibly Lavarnway or Iglesias) SP1 Beckett SP2 Lester SP3 Buch SP4 Lack SP5 Wake SP6 Dice or Miller RP1 Bard RP2 Jenks RP3 Albers RP4 Aceves RP5 Morales RP6 Doubront (several other options) There's a chance Papi walks and Paps stays. That could give Lavarnway a shot at an everyday job on the big club. Your thoughts?  
    Posted by moonslav59


    i say dont break what works.
    henry and theo are on record this year of not being afraid of the luxury tax.
    if papi wants to stay and he continues to kill it, we can keep him.

    if paps wants to stay, we have the best end of the game in the league, why change it (rhetorical) ?

    its a great problem to have to think about what to do with ryan lav.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

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    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions : $12.5 is a lot for an aging DH who is a liability in the field. Even at $10M/yr he would be the highest paid DH around. I think a lot may depend on where his numbers end up: he's been fairly cold since the All-Star break.  Being branded (BIG PAPI) he has added value for the Sox. Maybe even more to the Yankees. Perhaps they retaliate for Theo's offer to Mariano. I could see the NYY making a 2/20 offer just to force our hand. Besides that would be a very scary line-up w/Ortiz.
    Posted by javaukti


    however papi does not want to leave. so ubnless he makes us an offer we cannot accept ( a number or # of years), i think he will be a little flexible to stay here. i like to see how ryan hits mlb ptichers by the end of the year.

    wiht papi's age, he could be more expendable than paps. i still try to keep both.
    on short or perform contracts ideally.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:
    $12.5 is a lot for an aging DH who is a liability in the field. Even at $10M/yr he would be the highest paid DH around. I think a lot may depend on where his numbers end up: he's been fairly cold since the All-Star break. He normally heats it up the second half. This year has been a flip. .  Being branded (BIG PAPI) he has added value for the Sox. Maybe even more to the Yankees. Perhaps they retaliate for Theo's offer to Mariano. I could see the NYY making a 2/20 offer just to force our hand. Besides that would be a very scary line-up w/Ortiz The Yanks may need to keep the DH slot open for ARod. They need ARod's bat more than his glove and have a lot of money invested in him. If the Yanks are not in the running, perhaps the price will come down. I could see a heavily incentive laden contract offer with some of the incentives very easy to reach, maybe something like this: 2012: $8.5M guarenteed plus - 500K for 80 RBI and 200K for every 10 RBI after. - 500K for 20 HRs and 250K for 25 and 250K for 30. - 500K for a .850 OPS and another 500K for a .900 OPS and another for a .950 OPS. - 500K for 450 PAs, and 100K for every 50 PAs over 450. 2013: $8M base with same incentives.
    Posted by moonslav59


    i replied to ou rprevious post before i read this. we're thinking th esame on papi.
    i try to keep paps.
    dont fix what works
    and dont act poor when you can afford almost yankee payroll (and can afford phillie payroll). they are loaded with 5 starters, so its our 2 (we'll see on buch-one of my favorite players) and our bats against their 5 and not as much bats.
    still like to see them lose to giants in nl.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    Moonslow, lying for you is like Clinton. I never said the Rays would " go away" in 2010. You are lying to save your own embarrassment

    Part I was a direct respinse to your position. Lie away. We all know the truth.

    As for leadoff, you make a big deal about it. It's not a bid deal. A player only leads off, for sure, one time in a game. Career numbers are not wide enough to be meaningful at all. You're now in a mode where you simply lead a herd of idiots. At one time, you weren't as inclined to ape all the time. Now, becuase you are so clueless on so many issues, you feel the need to protect your ego by arguing for the sake of saving face

    You made a big deal about Jake's numbers at leadoff. Now, when Jake is exploding, it suddenly doen't matter? Plus, it's not just about being up 1st in an inning, it's about being on base in front of Pedey, AGon, Youk and Papi all game long.

    "No one has been more wrong than" is intellectually shallow hyperbole. In fact, few have been more out to lunch than you

    Your recent record reads like a horror story

    Popularity is important to you. It means nothing to me. Unless most posters are angry becuase of a comment I've made, I would be a liar. Like you

    I suppose this makes sense

    I was not popular with my No Manny - No Rings thread, my position on not signing Crawford, my position on platooning Crawford, my position on sitting Papi vs most LHPs for 2010 and at the start of this year, and much more Your rant is going off track badly.. .

    Fact is that Kemp and Crawford is greater than Ellsbury and Crawford. And the fact is that Ellsbury and Crawford are the same type of player. You catonically saying otherwise is a complete reversal. Absurd to pay Crawford 142M if true intention was to extend or sign Ellsbury as a FA. It won't happen now, that's for sure

    Your Jake for Kemp deal is as big a fantsasy as your Jake & Jed for AGone dream. It makes no sense to either team..

    NL isn't AAAA. See Giants and Phillies

    "AAAA" was your position, not mine. Again, lies to cover lies

    As for Kemp, this stupid board was claiming AGon wasn't going to be trade over the spring because of ticket sales. You are the same dimwit who claimed Twins coudn't afford Mauer. Don't even talk to me about trades. You don't have a clue who was on the table in past trades. And you don't have a clue about Kemp's availability

    Again with the diversions and misrepresentations

    Bottom line, danny isn't scared to agree that a star slugging young Rh bat would greatly improve an OF that has zilch in that department

    Of course a big RH'd bat would help. Taht's why I was for getting Holliday (at a much lower cost than Crawford ended up costing: you said he was not an elite hitter. His recent year numbers blow Kemps away and we'd still have Jake and the prospects. Get over it, LA does not want a Bora$$ client for Kemp. Why woulkdn't they just extend the younger Kemp? Why would Kemp want to come to what you call "racist Boston"? .

    If you want to disagree for the sake of attracting a fan club, don't bother insulting my intelligence

    There's no sign of intelligence

    And knock off the juvenile delinquent "clown" name calling. You are a dim wit who has never done anything but seek crowd approval

    I'd call you better names, but then I'd be banned like you. You are a silly clown: the name fits, wear it..

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    And knock off the juvenile delinquent "clown" name callingYou are a dim witwho has never done anything but seek crowd approval.
    Posted by softylaw


    Softy at his finest.

    He can't even go two sentences without contradicting himself.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    True, but A-Rod is good for another year or two at 3B.

    I agree, but it would be safer to protect him at DH.

    Do you think the NYY wd go after Paps? They're about the only team around that could swallow his contract. They still have all that unused Lee $$$ to spend. I don't think they will with Riviera still there. An aging Mo is still one of the best, it seems.

    Yes, I think the Yanks would go after Papi:
    1) It would help them
    2) It would hurt us.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    i say dont break what works.
    henry and theo are on record this year of not being afraid of the luxury tax.
    if papi wants to stay and he continues to kill it, we can keep him.

    if paps wants to stay, we have the best end of the game in the league, why change it (rhetorical) ?

    its a great problem to have to think about what to do with ryan lav.

    Yes, we can afford to keep just about everyone (except Drew). I'd be happy with that. We could maybe even have enought o get a cheap RH'd bat for RF and another 4/5th starter type.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    I think the Sox go very hard to resign Paplbon. He seems to be in the "must sign" category. Can Heath Bell pitch in the AL East? I also think K-rod is toast, regardless of cost. He is consistent at 89 on the gun these days.

    I still do not see a market for Ortiz at the price the SOx w/b willing to go. 2/20 imo trumps every other offer, and anything greater than that SOx are bidding against themselves.

    Scutaro is nice insurance, but at what cost? I don't see Iglesias ready next year. He should play every day in the minors to try and find a bat. Lowrie needs to stay in the lineup the next 2 months and produce to even assume he is next years starter.

    I think Wheeler is back at $3million. He has pitched to his contract imo
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from deroty. Show deroty's posts

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    In Response to 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:


    Not a single one of these jokers should be paid a dime more than any of those soldiers who got shot down in Afghanistan last week were making.  


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    I still do not see a market for Ortiz at the price the SOx w/b willing to go. 2/20 imo trumps every other offer, and anything greater than that SOx are bidding against themselves.

    I'd go higher if needed, and the Yanks might just drive up the price with no intent to sign, but I'd hate to lose Papi's bat, his heart and soul, and more.

    Unlike year's past, the inability to find a way to get Papi in the line-up at NL parks has become a minor factor (major if we go to the WS). Using Papi's money to upgrade elsewhere and allowing Lavarnway to get a shot to play everyday has some related benefits such as, 3rd catcher allows for easier PH'ing for VTek.

    Not having Papi is not something I want to imagine. He's the biggest hero the Sox have had in my lifetime.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    i agree that 2/20 would be the most i would give papi. Yes he has produced this year but he is a 35 yr old DH. The sox have already paid him more than he should have gotten when they exercised his 12.5 mill option. look at vlad guerrero who had a great year a few years ago and he got what 6 mill in free agency? If he does not take that then so be it. There will not be a huge market for him especially with the money he wants. And huge reason to not offer him more is prince fielder. He would be the ideal long term replacement for papi and we have a chance to add him for money and draft picks. Kemp is not happening as the dodgers will not trade him. They would trade ethier but not him. So prince is the most logical upgrade offensively. In terms of money, no way prince gets what agonz got. Yes prince is a good hitter, but he sucks at fielding. The guy is on pace to make like 20 something errors at first base. I think prince gets around 17 mill per year, 17.5 tops. And i think it is pretty clear his future is as a DH. So with papi making 12.5  this year, fielder would cost only 5 mill more per year assuming he makes 17.5 mill per. That can easily be fit into the payroll. And its not often you get the chance to sign a guy with prince's hitting ability for just money and pics. Prince would give us a true number 4 hitter who is in his prime which would allow youk to shift down to the 5 spot where he belongs. Giving us a line up of :

    ellsbury
    pedroia
    gonzalez
    fielder
    youk
    crawford
    reddick/kalish
    salty/lavarnway/tek
    iglesias/lowrie

    Our 7-9 guys are young and cheap, so is ells to a lesser extent. The money from drews contract goes to cover agonz raise, ortiz's money plus some of camerons money goes to fielder to cover his salary and the rest goes to ells to cover his raise. The rotation will likely stay the same except wake will retire and i think that if bedard does well these next few months theo will try to extend him for another year as this years pitching free agent class sucks in terms of starters.B The pen should be pretty much the same. I think paps will be back, wheeler may or may not be back. aceves, bard, jenks, and albers will be there for sure. We will have room to sign one reliever via free agency and there is some good ones in ryan madson, joel zumaya(when healthy), jonathan broxton(has been bad this year, but would take a shot on him as he is still young) and mike gonzalez(has not been great this year, but is the best left handed option available). And the bench will probably consist of tek, lowrie, dmac, and we could sign someone to fill the last spot. Or we could get rid of dmac and sign 2 guys. Scutaro could be back as well, but the sox will not pick up his option so he would have to excersize his player option. And there ya have it, the 2012 red sox.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:
    I still do not see a market for Ortiz at the price the SOx w/b willing to go. 2/20 imo trumps every other offer, and anything greater than that SOx are bidding against themselves. I'd go higher if needed, and the Yanks might just drive up the price with no intent to sign, but I'd hate to lose Papi's bat, his heart and soul, and more. Unlike year's past, the inability to find a way to get Papi in the line-up at NL parks has become a minor factor (major if we go to the WS). Using Papi's money to upgrade elsewhere and allowing Lavarnway to get a shot to play everyday has some related benefits such as, 3rd catcher allows for easier PH'ing for VTek. Not having Papi is not something I want to imagine. He's the biggest hero the Sox have had in my lifetime.
    Posted by moonslav59

    i very much doubt the sox use lavarnway as a dh. He has a million times more value as a catcher. I think the sox will give him every chance possible to stick behind the plate. If tek retires after this year, lavarnway could split time behind the plate with salty. But i have a feeling that tek will be back. No chance the yankees sign ortiz. They have the oldest team in the majors, no need to add a 35 yr old dh to that mix. The will likely give that spot to jesus montero because he sucks to much defensively to stick behind the plate and they already have tex at first. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    here we go again.I wish everyone would stop reading the box scores and see that Lavarnway had a few hits and he played the catcher position. Lavarnway will not catch in the major leagues. Watch him play the position. It aint happening.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions:
    In Response to Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions : i very much doubt the sox use lavarnway as a dh. He has a million times more value as a catcher. I think the sox will give him every chance possible to stick behind the plate. If tek retires after this year, lavarnway could split time behind the plate with salty. But i have a feeling that tek will be back. No chance the yankees sign ortiz. They have the oldest team in the majors, no need to add a 35 yr old dh to that mix. The will likely give that spot to jesus montero because he sucks to much defensively to stick behind the plate and they already have tex at first. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34

    I get your point, but I feel Salty is ahead of Lavarnway in catcher development. That is not to say that Lavarnway won't catch some games and/or become a FT catcher in Boston. I do not want Papi to walk, but my point was that if he leaves, it makes sense to give Lavarnway a chance to win the DH/ 2nd/3rd catcher slot (depending on VTek's return or not).

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    i think the sox will be in quite a dilemma with the ortiz situation. What makes it even more of a tricky situation is that prince fielder will hit the free agent market as well. Guys like fielder rarely hit the market but millwaukee decided not to deal him at the deadline as they are taking one last run at winning at champsionship. So prince will be available for draft picks and cash. Now if your the sox, do you sign your 35 yr old dh for way more than he is worth or do you sign the 26 yr slugger heading into his prime with the potential to hit 50 homers in fenway who would only cost you money and draft picks? With all the money coming off the books, i think fielder is the way to go. I am a big papi fan and he has been my fave sox player ever since he was traded to us from minny. But in order to have the best team going forward we need to let him go and sign fielder. I could not think of a better replacement for papi at DH than prince. As good as the sox offense has been this year, one thing it lacks is a true number 4 hitter. Youk is not a number 4 hitter as that spot is reserved for your best power hitter and youk has never even hit 30 homers in a season. In fact his avg per year is around 23/24. He would be much better suited for the 5 spot. I think big papi's days in boston are numbered. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    Where does Fielder play when we go to an NL park?

    If we do get a different DH, we should try to get an OF'er or use Lavarnway (C/DH).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: 2012 Sox Payroll and Big Decisions

    when we go to NL parks we can do one of 2 things, alternate gonzalez and fielder at 1B or like we did this year put gonzalez in the outfield for a few games. Interleague is only a small part of the season. I dont think that would deter the sox from going after a guy like fielder.
     
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