2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    Wow! Reggie Jefferson and an anonymous player said the thought Piazza was on PEDs.
    You're kidding, right? Bonds and Clemens were proven by the same testing Piazza went through as being PED users.
    Piazza never tested positive for PEDs.
    The case you put forth against Mike Piazza is WEAK!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    In Response to Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?:
    [QUOTE]Wow! Reggie Jefferson and an anonymous player said the thought Piazza was on PEDs. You're kidding, right? Bonds and Clemens were proven by the same testing Piazza went through as being PED users. Piazza never tested positive for PEDs. The case you put forth against Mike Piazza is WEAK!
    Posted by GhostofTito[/QUOTE]

    A former player's word is a pretty rare thing, I can't think of many other players who have voluntarily pointed out other players for using.  Bagwell never tested positive but has been hurt by speculation, and Piazza ADMITTED to using Andro but said he stopped b/c he didn't get results.

    Piazza put on 20 pounds of muscle 1 off season, his back acne was noticed by and commented on by multiple reporters during his career, he was a 62nd round draft pick who magically turned into the greatest HR hitting catcher of all time.  I don't know how an objective observer could think Piazza was clean.

    But this is the exact problem with the PED and HOF debate, it turns into a totally arbitrary fan debate.  People who liked a certain guy when he was playing are going to turn a blind eye b/c they want to believe he was clean.  And then guys like Bonds and Clemens, who are the most deserving of the Hall, are the ones who are dragged down the most b/c  their accomplishments made them targets.  If the gov't went after Piazza like they went after Bonds or Clemens I'm sure the case against Mike would be just as strong.

    I don't really care that Piazza used PED's, as I said in my previous post, judge players vs. their era. 
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    In Response to Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in? : all true good post Thesemenarecowards I agree, put them in and then it's our jobs to tell our grandkids about the different era's of baseball that said I have NP with some of these guys waiting 10 yrs or even longer B4 they get in
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    Thanks Zac.  Your grandkids statement is so true b/c it highlights the fake fear that somehow when Bonds gets in the Hall of Fame all of sudden he will no longer be linked to Balco and his swollen head and all other things PED's.  Especially in our era of all information being readily available, no one will ever forget about the PED era.

    It would be cowardly of MLB to have the great players of the PED era left out of the hall, because we all know that MLB allowed PED's to exist.  The Hall of Fame is a living record of MLB, to ignore an era b/c it is embarrassing would take away from what the Hall is all about. 

    I've always found it frustrating that all the "great baseball men" who managed during this era received a free pass on allowing PED use.  For example, we here so much about the genius of Tony Larussa, how he is the greatest baseball mind ever, etc.... well if that is true than he in my mind should be subject to scrutiny for allowing PED use.  Why didn't Larussa pull Big Mac aside and tell him to stop disgracing the game?  Players are paid based on performance, they cheated to perform better and earn bigger paychecks and the industry not only tolerated it but promoted it. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from saintJ. Show saintJ's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    Bonds said he would not show up if inducted to the hall of fame.  PEDs and the fact hes a jerk will keep him out a while.  Clemens will have to wait as well, although I would love to see drunken sox fans and drunken yankee fans together at his induction.  Bigio is a lock for next year and I think Schilling gets in.  His numbers are questionable but he was clutch in the play offs.  Besides I think the writers will want to teach Clemens a lesson by letting is student beat him to the hall.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    Shoeless Joe Jackson
    Pete Rose
     untill they get in the H of F is ridicilous
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    In Response to Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?:
    [QUOTE]Shoeless Joe Jackson Pete Rose  untill they get in the H of F is ridicilous
    Posted by iamme17[/QUOTE]

    True.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    I think Buster Olney has it right:  either no one from the '90s/'00s should be voted in, or they should all be judged strictly on their on-field performance.  How absurd is it when people - who have no way of knowing - say "So and so was clean unlike cheaters like .....". 

    Piazza?  Bagwell?  Pedro?  Any of them could be a baseball Marion Jones, and to pick and choose based on opinion is ridiculous.

    So I would vote for Bonds and Clemens when eligible, even though I would find it distasteful.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    Rose banned from the game for life is enough to satisfy his gambling issues that he incurred after his playing career was over.

    He absolutely deserves to be the hall for how he played the game.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    The criteria are subjective. The criteria include character. The selection process cannot be computerized. Pick your own HOF otherwise many of you will be disappointed since everyone values character differently.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    Character doesn't have but one value. Reputation is what people value differently.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    The media character litmus test is truly a joke, given the pitiful character of those that dominate the mass media agenda.

    http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/rules-election/bbwaa

    See link above, refer to #5, Voting.

    It has nothing to do with the media, it has to do with the rules of the Board of Directors of National Baseball Hall of Fame. The media did not create the rules, they simply attempt to follow them to the best of their ability.

    If only people of good character could judge others, we would have to close down all our courts and government offices.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    The media did not create the rules, they simply attempt to follow them to the best of their ability.

    No, they simply attempt and succeed in employing pride and ratings to drive a lousy yearly reality TV sports show.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    In Response to Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?:
    [QUOTE]Not counting non-first ballot guys, here are my thoughts: Piazza- Yes, first ballot . Anything else would be crazy...he's arguably the best hitting catcher ever! Most HRs, twice led the league in OPS+, and his career OPS+ puts him at roughly the same level as ARod, Albert Belle, Prince Fielder, Harmon Killebrew, Eddie Mathews, Chipper Jones, and Vladamir Guerrero. Look at that list! Every one of those guys produced at HOF quality (though some such as Belle had too short a career for the HOF), and Piazza matched that despite playing the draining catcher position. His weaknesses behind the plate keep him from being the best catcher ever, but he was good enough to stick there his whole career. Biggio- Yes, not first ballot . Some fairly criticize him as an "accumulator", but those people also forget that Biggio played 2B, not a corner position (plus he offered speed). That rep and the crowded field may keep him out for a while, but he'll get in (the player with the highest career hit total to not make the HOF, not counting roiders/gamblers, is Harold Baines at 2866. Biggio had 3060). Schilling- No , unless steroid-era pitching becomes more valued over time. He's close, but his career just took a little too long to get going. He and Jack Morris can thumb their noses at all the HOF pitchers who weren't so great in the playoffs... Sosa- Heck no . Outside of his clearly steroid-assisted seasons, Sosa did not produce at a HOF caliber. The only reason he enters the discussion is due to steroids, and that makes him an easy drop. Bonds/Clemens- Not right away, and maybe never . It comes down to a clear debate: do their steroid transgressions wipe out the near-certain fact that they were HOF-level players before they probably began using the PEDs? If you take the character part of HOF candidacy seriously, the answer will likely be "yes". If you want to acknowlege how good they were regardless of steroids, the answer is "no", and you put them in the hall. It should take some time to settle this. Personally, I think it's far more abhorrent to use steroids because being a HOF isn't good enough and you want to be an inner-circle HOFer (Bonds and Clemens) than it is to use steroids because you might not be good enough to stick around in MLB without them (as is perhaps the case with, say, Rafael Palmeiro). So I say no .
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    well written, very enjoyable actually

    but I'd vote for Schilling...I think he'll get in eventually and most likely via the veteran committee
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    n
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: 2013 Hall Of Fame Candidates-Who do you believe should be voted in?

    Biggio & Piazza
     
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    m
     
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    m
     
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