2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    Lester/Buchholz/De La Rosa/Doubront/Lackey is good enough.  If we bring in the righty sluggers like we should, our pitching only has to be good enough.  Teams mash their way to championships all the time. 

    Last year, we were 43-68 against righties, and 26-25 against lefties

    In 2011, we were 57-50 against righties and 33-22 against lefties.

    So over two seasons, we were.459 against righties and  .557 against lefties.  Doesn't that argue for more lefty hitters?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lester/Buchholz/De La Rosa/Doubront/Lackey is good enough.  If we bring in the righty sluggers like we should, our pitching only has to be good enough.  Teams mash their way to championships all the time. 

    Last year, we were 43-68 against righties, and 26-25 against lefties

    In 2011, we were 57-50 against righties and 33-22 against lefties.

    So over two seasons, we were.459 against righties and  .557 against lefties.  Doesn't that argue for more lefty hitters?

    [/QUOTE]


    It argues to get hitters with more even splits against both RHP and LHP

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    I hope I am wrong but the guy I would try to move is Lester.

    Watching him pitch last season was like watching a guy that has totally lost his confidence. That is something that is not easy to regain. I see him as a guy that will remain mediocre for the balance of his career. I do not see him in the 3 ERA range. He was better, it appeared, in late Aug and Sept when there was no longer anything to play for.

    If Ben could move him for Masterson in an expanded deal--it might be a plus move for the Sox-I see more of the same activity from him and if Pedroia gets extended and he doesn't...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hope I am wrong but the guy I would try to move is Lester.

    Watching him pitch last season was like watching a guy that has totally lost his confidence. That is something that is not easy to regain. I see him as a guy that will remain mediocre for the balance of his career. I do not see him in the 3 ERA range. He was better, it appeared, in late Aug and Sept when there was no longer anything to play for.

    If Ben could move him for Masterson in an expanded deal--it might be a plus move for the Sox-I see more of the same activity from him and if Pedroia gets extended and he doesn't...

    [/QUOTE]


    You say I give up on players like Ciriaco and Gomez, yet you want to give up on a 28 yr old proven MLB starter with no injury history who gives you 200+ innings every year, has been in the Cy Young discussions more than once, and has had great success in the ALE just because he had one down year? His track record the 4 years prior to 2012 speaks for itself and should be what we look at, not his one down year...And for Justin Masterson? Yikes...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hope I am wrong but the guy I would try to move is Lester.

    Watching him pitch last season was like watching a guy that has totally lost his confidence. That is something that is not easy to regain. I see him as a guy that will remain mediocre for the balance of his career. I do not see him in the 3 ERA range. He was better, it appeared, in late Aug and Sept when there was no longer anything to play for.

    If Ben could move him for Masterson in an expanded deal--it might be a plus move for the Sox-I see more of the same activity from him and if Pedroia gets extended and he doesn't...

    [/QUOTE]

    Jon Lester had a better year last year than Masterson did.  Masterson hasnt gotten a single lefty out since he left the sox.  Id be interested in trading a AAAA player for Masterson, so Masterson can be a righty specialist/mop up man out of the pen.  But thats about all you are going to get from him.  He isnt what you think he is.  He is very flawed as a starter.

    And Lester is a bounce back candidate.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hope I am wrong but the guy I would try to move is Lester.

    Watching him pitch last season was like watching a guy that has totally lost his confidence. That is something that is not easy to regain. I see him as a guy that will remain mediocre for the balance of his career. I do not see him in the 3 ERA range. He was better, it appeared, in late Aug and Sept when there was no longer anything to play for.

    If Ben could move him for Masterson in an expanded deal--it might be a plus move for the Sox-I see more of the same activity from him and if Pedroia gets extended and he doesn't...

    [/QUOTE]

    Jon Lester had a better year last year than Masterson did.  Masterson hasnt gotten a single lefty out since he left the sox.  Id be interested in trading a AAAA player for Masterson, so Masterson can be a righty specialist/mop up man out of the pen.  But thats about all you are going to get from him.  He isnt what you think he is.  He is very flawed as a starter.

    And Lester is a bounce back candidate.

    [/QUOTE]


    agree 100% Drew. Some here think masterson would be a good #5 and I coulnt disagree more for the same reason you stated. LHH kill him. Hes a good choice out of the pen in certain situations against RHH. He could also spot start if absolutely needed.

    Id give them Gomez for masterson. They need a cheap 1b.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    I don't get all the man love for Masterson, JBay, VMart and many the other flawed ex-Sox.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    VMart career OBP  .390 OPS .839  2011 OBP  .380 2011  OPS .850

    VMart Last 3 years v. LHP  OBP .397  SLG  .604 OPS 1.001

    This guy has elite hand eye coordination and is a perfect rotating 1B/DH/C fit for Boston/AL East. He's a an elite slugger from the Right side, from the left side he's a strong gap hitter @ Fenway and a pop homer guy in the Yankee little league partk.

    If the Red Sox acquire J. Upton, he's a great fit to go in between J. Upton and Ortiz or behind Upton if Ortiz is tanking due to age or struggling v. LP.

    He also allows the Red Sox to carry two regular catchers and add important game management flexibility by virtue of having a true gifted hitter who can rotate from or into the catcher spot, but can also be a good league 1st baseman or an elite league DH v. LP.

    The Tigers have Miggy and Fielder and two younger catchers with experience, and may be tempted to unload VMart's last two contract years and rotate the DH with old 26 Million dollar man Hunter,  Dirks and Miggy days off.

    If not, the Tigers are simply that much better than the Red Sox and the Red Sox should move from offering farm scraps to take all the 2 years of VMart's contract to:

    A 2 year base 10 offer to Napoli. If Napoli says he's found an InEpstein or Cherry sugar dadddy offer, the hole that AGon left is simply a hole that Cherry failed to plan and planned to fail and he'll need to take his medicine, which would be:

    One year low single digits for Loney and Gomez in a platoon at 1st base (That's the price of "the best deal ever made"), until the market provides a better value and fit option. And, no, the trade and contract price for "been hit in the head too many times " Morneau is not a better market option.

    Bay should be offered a minor league contract/"tryout for mlb contract roster spot".

    Masterson is a farm scraps or veteran pen true trade swap guy.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The Tigers GM has already said that VMart is staying put, so you can end the dreaming of getting him for "farm scraps" (which they wouldnt take anyway). They need his bat, which would make them almost a lock, barring injuries, for another WS appearence.

    Also the Sox dont have a MLB ready SS, 3b and P that they are willing to part with or that AZ wants. No, they dont value a comp pick that will do nothing for them for at least 3+ years if at all. they have plenty of OF help and dont need Ells, his 8-10M price tag or Brentz. Bogaerts will do nothing for them this year and maybe 2014. MLB proven and ready means exactly that. Besides, Towers said he hasnt been "blown away" from any offers yet which tells me that teams are not willing to part with a lot for his services for 3 years.

    Napoli would be good on a 2-3 year deal around 10-12M per.

     Im sure BC will find a much better solution than Gomez/Loney. But if he has to go that route, Jerry Sands is in the mix as well. After Jon Valentin worked with him on his hitting last year he improved greatly, and he was already a solid hitter. He could be the dark horse in all this if BC cant find a better solution...But I think he will find a better option than those 3.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    "Elite hitter" for "farm scraps".

    More silliness from the resident clown.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    These are tough question Softaccooa.

    On the FA market, for my money, I would go get Brandon McCarthy.  He has the makeup for Boston, is coming into his own a little late and just had brain problems, so maybe he comes cheaper than your Anibal Sanchez's and Edwin Jacksons.  His toughness will serve him well in the AL Beast. 

    I like Dan Haren on a short deal, even if the salary is a bit lofty.

    [/QUOTE]

    McCarthy or Anibal even at the 90mil are my choices but we will probably end up with another Cook "type" cast off and Lackeys 5 plus ERA.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    You make no sense what so ever.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    For the umpteenth time, it was $2M earned with maxing out incentives. His role was to be as the 6th starter. 

    Even if your claim that I was wrong to make that one of my suggested offers to make last winter. That's one wrong vs 1,137 straight wrong positions by you. You can cling to this one "wrong position" by me for as long as it keeps boosting your fragile ego, but it is pretty telling that you have to go back a year to find a distraction from the current discussion.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    which would make them almost a lock, barring injuries, for another WS appearence.

    Also the Sox dont have a MLB ready SS, 3b and P that they are willing to part with or that AZ wants. No, they dont value a comp pick that will do nothing for them for at least 3+ years if at all. they have plenty of OF help and dont need Ells, his 8-10M price tag or Brentz. Bogaerts will do nothing for them this year and maybe 2014. MLB proven and ready means exactly that. Besides, Towers said he hasnt been "blown away" from any offers yet which tells me that teams are not willing to part with a lot for his services for 3 years.

    "almost a lock is menaingless hyperbole".

    A 3 team is how blockbuster trades go down. You have Cherry like tunnel vision that says "we don't have what they are rumored to be demanding". MLB ready is Ellsbury, which with compensation nets a MLB ready profile. Ditto on the pool of prospects I've listed. If the DBacks want to try and win now, they'll need to  unload the top prospects, inside and out. Right now, the  DBacks are a market that are faced with rebuilding. Trying to pass off a few wheel spinning moves isn't going to change anything.

    They DONT NEED AN OF'er. What dont you understand about that?? Why would they take player from the Sox just to trade them when they can get the players straight from another team...Doesnt make sense.

    As for "not blown away", that's empty rhetroic for a man who is desperately trying to sell J. Upton and get as much as he can get. He's simply bluffing to try elicit incompetent GM's like Epstein and Cherry to take the bait. In the end, his job in his jeopardy because he's beena  failure to date for the AZ owners. It's his call, but having seen his moves and non-moves I think he's going to get a well earned pink slip very soon.

    Actually, it was the owner who said this as well.

    When  J. Upton goes, they'll need outfield help. And you are clueless if you think swapping J. Upton's 9 to 10M for Ellsbury's for one year is something "they don't need". That's laughable, it's not KC and Oakland and Tampa.

    They have Kubel, Parra, and rookies pollock and Eaton who did very well in there 2012 debuts...The dont need Ells and his 8-10M salary for 1 year...

    Get real if you don't think "teams aren't willing to part with a lot for 3 years of his services". His contract, his age, his proven talent at the MLB level, teams are willing to part with "a lot" for 3 years of his services and the leverage to extend that contract.

    So far nobody has and hes been "available" for over a year now...

    What we do know now is that Crawford was a disaster and InEpstein and Cherry were in that administartion that wasted a fortune on that joke. Nearly 30M for Crawbust and Ellspuff had to be at or near the top of the biggest single season GM malpracitce in MLB history!

    Craw is gone and Ells will be by the end of 2013 if not sooner. Time to move on from the past...

    What we do now know is that Ellsbury at the end of 2011 was retained despite the certain knowledge that there was no way the Red Sox were going to pay for his FA years with Crawford on the books. What we do now know is that AGon and cash was the cost for getting rid of Crawford's remaining contract, yet the Red Sox aren't going to be the high bidders at the Ellsbury FA auction block.

    Once again. Whats done is done. Get over it already...You waste so much time concentrating on the past...

    We know that the Red Sox have incompetent GM administrations who have spent nearly a billion dollars for zero playoff wins in nearly a half a decade!

    Time to right the ship. I agree

    Instead of being a cheerleader and apologist for Red Sox GM's, try thinking indpendently for a change and demand accountability via pink slips and changes in middle management.

    These are my opinions. Because they arent the same as your means I am thinking independently, doesnt it? Demand pink slips?? I have no control whos hired and fired and neither do you. If you actually think your opinion matters to the Red Sox, I got news for ya...It doesnt.

    [/QUOTE]


     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to toccooa's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How many outside starting pitchers do the Red Sox need to acquire?

    Who are you going to budget market rate for in this years starting pitcher FA market?

    Is there anyone you would trade for in the starting pitching trade market?     

    If so, what players would you put in a trade pool to make sure you acquire them?

    [/QUOTE]

    Weird you're not even going to give YOUR opinion. Not even a hint of what you're thinking.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    It's clear that this poster is a copy of a negative fan here. It's too bad we don't have a JBay  or BurritoT for negative fans like they get rid of positive fans. That's why we wind up with a board full of complainers.

    Speaking of which, it's seems clear that Pike was removed from the board. Good work guys, and thanks for the                   that you left the board with.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    Can all the constant complainers just wait until the game threads open up next spring? That would be awesome.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Since I know you love pools...

    I'd trade:

    1 from a pool of Tazawa, Doubront or Morales.

    Plus

    2 from a pool of Lava, Cecchini, and Brentz

    Plus

    1 from a pool of any prospect on soxprospects.com below #10.

    FOR:

    Brett Anderson

     

     

    I'd then sign:

    B. McCarthy at $22M/3

    if he says no, I'd try...

    S. Marcum at $25M/3

    if they say no, I'd offer minimal contracts ($2M/1) to Joe Saunders or J Sanchez  

    [/QUOTE]


    Anderson would be a great addition for RS. But the guy is hurt alot even after TJ surgey. He has a chance to become a No.1 starter if not already. He's still young [24 believe?] and did a nice job in his start vs Tigers in playoffs to get A's back in series. But remember Billy Beane has a way of making other GM's look real bad in these type of trades. Case in point last yrs Reddick for Bailey/Sweeny deal already looks bad and who knows if Head or Alcantra [19 & 21] ever do anything at mlb level to really make this deal even worse.

    Like both Marcum and McCarthy as signings fo RS. But would like Haren even more even at more $, much more upside if he's healthy. Guy has been a 200 ip workhorse as top of rotation guy, so you know what you are getting. But can RS medical staff be trusted to make sure his back is 100% healthy?

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 2013 Starting Pitcher Market: Where do you stand on that?

    In response to garyhow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Since I know you love pools...

    I'd trade:

    1 from a pool of Tazawa, Doubront or Morales.

    Plus

    2 from a pool of Lava, Cecchini, and Brentz

    Plus

    1 from a pool of any prospect on soxprospects.com below #10.

    FOR:

    Brett Anderson

     

     

    I'd then sign:

    B. McCarthy at $22M/3

    if he says no, I'd try...

    S. Marcum at $25M/3

    if they say no, I'd offer minimal contracts ($2M/1) to Joe Saunders or J Sanchez  

    [/QUOTE]


    Anderson would be a great addition for RS. But the guy is hurt alot even after TJ surgey. He has a chance to become a No.1 starter if not already. He's still young [24 believe?] and did a nice job in his start vs Tigers in playoffs to get A's back in series. But remember Billy Beane has a way of making other GM's look real bad in these type of trades. Case in point last yrs Reddick for Bailey/Sweeny deal already looks bad and who knows if Head or Alcantra [19 & 21] ever do anything at mlb level to really make this deal even worse.

    Like both Marcum and McCarthy as signings fo RS. But would like Haren even more even at more $, much more upside if he's healthy. Guy has been a 200 ip workhorse as top of rotation guy, so you know what you are getting. But can RS medical staff be trusted to make sure his back is 100% healthy?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Any signing or trade is a gamble, but I think Anderson's health is worth such a risk.

     

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