2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    First off, this is about this season, not the recent past seasons.  We are in last place, 9 1/2 games out with a 47 - 55 record. It has been a struggle all year to just try and get to .500  .  The injuries have not been a major problem. We have probably been healthier than most teams.  What went wrong?  Just about anything that myself or a few others have pointed to as a problem , has been aggressively rebutted by many posters on here. These same posters have defended , complimented and extolled ownership, the front office, the manager and just about every single player. Folks, any impartial observer would tell you that somewhere along the line, someone or several someones are not doing a very good job. I have given my view on this many ( probably too many ) times. Anyone have an idea about what , if anything , went wrong ? And what , if anything , can and should be done to fix it ?


    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    PTI

     

    Anyone have an idea about what , if anything , went wrong ?

    sorry if I ruin your thread dale

    but as a MFYfan I can't help asking

    what do U think adrián gonzález would say

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Here are my thoughts on what went wrong:


    1. Until Brock Holt's ascension, there was no lead off guy.  The lineup instability starts here.  Without reservation, even in hindsight, I defend not signing Ellsbury.  But, no question his absence at the top really hurt this year.  Add to this the MIA year for Victorino, and there has been a distinct lack of energy in the table setting spots.  Yes, Pedroia is comfy in the 2, but last year really clicked when you had Ells and Vic applying pressure at the top.


    2. Middlebrooks.  They were relying on him to at least show up and be a power threat, apply some pressure in the bottom third of the line-up.  Last year, outside of Ortiz, there was no traditional big bopper middle of the line-up; but there was pressure from all spots in the line-up.  This year, with Middlebrooks no-show, JBJ's rookie struggles, and Xander taking a bit to round into form and then struggling to adjust to the league's adjustments, the bottom of this line-up was a veritable black hole for the first half.


    3. JBJ's rookie offensive struggles - see above


    4. Xander having to move to third because of WMB's no-show (see above) and having no one else ready to play third.


    5. AJP's bad vibes and poor replacement for Salty's production (again, like Ellsbury, I am glad Salty wasn't signed - Vasquez has already stepped in and is ready for prime time).


    6. Last year, the mojo was insane.  They won seemingly every 1 run affair and had so many dramatic comebacks and walk-offs.  I think psycho-spiritually this club was expecting/hoping that the same magic would just assert itself. But didn't apply the same fight, the same prove-em-wrong Boston Strong grit.   And they never woke up, or took too long to wake up.


     


     


        

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    They were not BUILT to win........ 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Team cannot hit a good pitcher. Anytime they face an ace, it's bad news. Maybe not every time, but mostly they get shut down for 5 to 6 innings without a hit or a run.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    The first thing that went wrong is that Pedroia and Napoli, the No. 3 and No. 5 hitters in the batting order, batted .200 and .180 respectively in the first half w/RISP. Had they been at least at .250, the Sox would at least at .500, and it might have helped take the pressure off the younger guys.

    But even if the younger guys and everyone else did the same, the Sox would at least be at .500 and just 4.5 games out and certainly within striking distance.

    A lot of posters like to rip the decision about going with young prospects, but no matter what the Sox did, when the No. 3 and No. 5 hitters are so pathetic in the clutch, they still would have had issues.

    And let's look at the rest of the team:

    Nava and Gomes combined to be one of the top productive left fields, if not the top, last year. So that's not something that a GM is going to blow up. Gomes had a typical year and basically has been the same. Had Nava started the season like he's been hitting now, LF wouldn't have been a problem. I've never been a huge Nava backer, but even if you expected him to drop off, it was a stretch to think he'd be as bad as he was to start the season.

    Now look at Bradley. It's easy to say the Sox should have re-signed Ellsbury, but look at Bradley. He's been perhaps the top defensive CF, and unless he goes o-fer for the rest of the month, he's going to finish with a solid July. He was solid in April -- .244 1 HR, 12 RBIs -- so right now, the Sox have gotten two good months offensively from him and two bad months. There's nothing wrong with going with young players, but there are going to be growing pains.

    Victorino had a solid year last year but it wasn't a career year. It's easy to say the Sox should have expected him to be hurt, but you can never predict injuries. Guys are injury prone until they're not, and guys are workhorses until they're not.

    And there hardly has been a lot of options. Many posters were clamoring for Beltran and he has scked this year. He wouldn't have been anywhere near an upgrade.

    Nelson Cruz -- coming off a PED suspension? There wasn't a lot of clamoring for him. In retrospect, he would have helped a lot, but you can't really blame the Sox for not going after him, especially after how effective the LF platoon was last year.

    The infield. I don't know anyone who didn't want Bogaerts, so again, with a rookie, there's going to be growing pains. Middlebrooks was a disappointment, but when you look at the way he finished the last two months last year and the RH power potential, the Sox certainly had to give him a chance even if it was a longshot. (And he still might pan out).

    And if the Sox decided not to go with Middlebrooks at 3B, what were the options?

    And sure, the Sox could have gone after Abreu stronger, but he still was a huge unknown, and the Sox had a 1B coming off a very strong year. It was hardly a need.

    Catching? A.J. obviously didn't work out, although he had some key game-winning hits early. But Salty hasn't been much better and McCann, whom some wanted, hasn't been great either. So the short-run, catching was an issue, but Vazquez has been strong and perhaps in the long run, not signing Salty and signing A.J. isn't going to matter.

    Pitching and bullpen has been solid overall despite hiccups here and there.

    So to me, it goes back to Pedroia and Napoli being so horrible in the clutch this year. Had they been at their career averages, the Sox would be at .500 and Sox fans could be a bit more patient for the young guys to come around, which despite the lasted couple of games, it looks like Bogaerts and Bradley are coming around.

    Had at least Bogaerts been stronger or at least hit well in the clutch when he his batting average was higher to start the year, the Sox would over .500.

    Or if Nava wasn't so horrible to start the year, LF wouldn't have been as much of an issue.

    Holt has make up for some of the struggles at 3B, LF (before Nava started hitting) and RF, so that has helped some, which goes back to the clutch-hitting struggles of the Sox's No. 3 and No. 5 hitters.

    And

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    First off, this is about this season, not the recent past seasons.  We are in last place, 9 1/2 games out with a 47 - 55 record. It has been a struggle all year to just try and get to .500  .  The injuries have not been a major problem. We have probably been healthier than most teams.  What went wrong?  Just about anything that myself or a few others have pointed to as a problem , has been aggressively rebutted by many posters on here. These same posters have defended , complimented and extolled ownership, the front office, the manager and just about every single player. Folks, any impartial observer would tell you that somewhere along the line, someone or several someones are not doing a very good job. I have given my view on this many ( probably too many ) times. Anyone have an idea about what , if anything , went wrong ? And what , if anything , can and should be done to fix it ?

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    Victorino,JBJ,Middlebrook,Boggy,Nava,Gomes,Carp,Buch,AJ,Drew,Sizemore, On and on and on . Want me to keep going? See that was very simple....................

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    First off, this is about this season, not the recent past seasons.  We are in last place, 9 1/2 games out with a 47 - 55 record. It has been a struggle all year to just try and get to .500  .  The injuries have not been a major problem. We have probably been healthier than most teams.  What went wrong?  Just about anything that myself or a few others have pointed to as a problem , has been aggressively rebutted by many posters on here. These same posters have defended , complimented and extolled ownership, the front office, the manager and just about every single player. Folks, any impartial observer would tell you that somewhere along the line, someone or several someones are not doing a very good job. I have given my view on this many ( probably too many ) times. Anyone have an idea about what , if anything , went wrong ? And what , if anything , can and should be done to fix it ?

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    Victorino,JBJ,Middlebrook,Boggy,Nava,Gomes,Carp,Buch,AJ,Drew,Sizemore, On and on and on . Want me to keep going? See that was very simple....................

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  Okay. I got you down for putting the blame on the majority of the players. Any word on the guy who assembled the team?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Then players on our team aren't as good as the players on most other teams.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to billge's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Then players on our team aren't as good as the players on most other teams.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  Would that reflect on whoever assembled the team , and his ability to judge talent? 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Basically, it's most of the offense underperforming.  I think the team looked like a contender on paper.   You expect some slumps and underperformances, but no one could have anticipated the offense to be as bad as they have been.  I really don't think the FO can be blamed.  The injuries haven't been overwhelming, but they certainly haven't helped.

    Sure, they took some risks with having Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, and JBJ in the same lineup, but IMO, they were risks worth taking.   And even with those risks, this team really should be right in the thick of the division race. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Again and less wordy:

    PEDROIA'S AND NAPOLI'S POOR CLUTCH HITTING (.200 and .180 w/RISP respectively in the first half).

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to billge's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Then players on our team aren't as good as the players on most other teams.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  Would that reflect on whoever assembled the team , and his ability to judge talent? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, that would definitely reflect on Larry Lucchino. I give Ben a pass because he's too busy brewing coffee.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Agree .  The only way to truly evaluate Larry's performance, would b for him to leave, and then we could check the difference.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to billge's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Agree .  The only way to truly evaluate Larry's performance, would b for him to leave, and then we could check the difference.

    [/QUOTE]

    He should take Farkell with him.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    The OP disingenuously announces that we can only talk about this year.  Last year didn't happen, nor did 2007 or 2004. 


    This is of course baloney because those years did happen, which means the FO isn't quite the disaster the OP says it is.  Do they get some of the blame for this year?  Sure they do. 


    So I would ask the OP this question.  Do you seriously believe that a GM, whose team just won 97 games, led MLB in OPS and runs scored, and then won the World Series, should have completely disassembled that team because they couldn't hit or pitch?   To me Ben C's bias should have been to bring back as many of those guys as possible:  Nava/Gomes in LF, Victorino in RF, Napoli at 1b, Pedroia at 2B, etc. 


    I think most of us wanted Ellsbury back too, but very few of us wanted Ben C to get in a bidding war with the Yankees, whose starting bid, $152M for 7 years, was insane.  Is he missed?  Sure he is, but right now he sure ain't living up to the $22M/year the Yankees are paying him.  His WAR is 2.2, and Bradley's is 2.0, which tells me Ben C made the right decision.  Salty left because he bombed in the WS and wanted (and got) a multiyear contract, which Ben C didn't want to do because he knew Vazquez and Swihart were getting close to MLB ready.  Again, it looks to me as though Ben C was mostly right even though Pierzynski was definitely a bad choice.  He was perfect in terms of being a one year model, but terrible as a teammate, as a catcher, and as a hitter.


    And let's not forget the Sox offered Drew $14M, which he turned down, so the Sox went with Bogaerts at SS.  He definitely struggled in the field with both errors and lack of range, but early on he hit well.  Now not so much, plus he is back at 3B (where he was last year), and Drew is back at SS.


     


     


     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Again and less wordy:

    PEDROIA'S AND NAPOLI'S POOR CLUTCH HITTING (.200 and .180 w/RISP respectively in the first half).

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And it will be your mantra for 2014...duly noted.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The OP disingenuously announces that we can only talk about this year.  Last year didn't happen, nor did 2007 or 2004. 

    This is of course baloney because those years did happen, which means the FO isn't quite the disaster the OP says it is.  Do they get some of the blame for this year?  Sure they do. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  It is not the least bit disingenuous. It is simply about the 2014 season and what went wrong. Nothing more, nothing less. Bringing up past seasons is changing the narrative. I am asking for opinions on what went wrong this year, and ideas on what can be done to get back to our previous success. That is all. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    First off, this is about this season, not the recent past seasons.  We are in last place, 9 1/2 games out with a 47 - 55 record. It has been a struggle all year to just try and get to .500  .  The injuries have not been a major problem. We have probably been healthier than most teams.  What went wrong?  Just about anything that myself or a few others have pointed to as a problem , has been aggressively rebutted by many posters on here. These same posters have defended , complimented and extolled ownership, the front office, the manager and just about every single player. Folks, any impartial observer would tell you that somewhere along the line, someone or several someones are not doing a very good job. I have given my view on this many ( probably too many ) times. Anyone have an idea about what , if anything , went wrong ? And what , if anything , can and should be done to fix it ?

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    Victorino,JBJ,Middlebrook,Boggy,Nava,Gomes,Carp,Buch,AJ,Drew,Sizemore, On and on and on . Want me to keep going? See that was very simple....................

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  Okay. I got you down for putting the blame on the majority of the players. Any word on the guy who assembled the team?

    [/QUOTE]

    ok then you found your answer.... Was that easy ?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Yeah, it was easy, Pal. Great answer. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    First off, this is about this season, not the recent past seasons.  We are in last place, 9 1/2 games out with a 47 - 55 record. It has been a struggle all year to just try and get to .500  .  The injuries have not been a major problem. We have probably been healthier than most teams.  What went wrong?  Just about anything that myself or a few others have pointed to as a problem , has been aggressively rebutted by many posters on here. These same posters have defended , complimented and extolled ownership, the front office, the manager and just about every single player. Folks, any impartial observer would tell you that somewhere along the line, someone or several someones are not doing a very good job. I have given my view on this many ( probably too many ) times. Anyone have an idea about what , if anything , went wrong ? And what , if anything , can and should be done to fix it ?

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's not worth discussing it again many of us have answered this question since ST.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    Actually, nothing went wrong this year. They are a last place team. It was last year when everything went wrong. Instead of clinching last place last year, everything went wrong and they won the whole enchilada. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    First off, this is about this season, not the recent past seasons.  We are in last place, 9 1/2 games out with a 47 - 55 record. It has been a struggle all year to just try and get to .500  .  The injuries have not been a major problem. We have probably been healthier than most teams.  What went wrong?  Just about anything that myself or a few others have pointed to as a problem , has been aggressively rebutted by many posters on here. These same posters have defended , complimented and extolled ownership, the front office, the manager and just about every single player. Folks, any impartial observer would tell you that somewhere along the line, someone or several someones are not doing a very good job. I have given my view on this many ( probably too many ) times. Anyone have an idea about what , if anything , went wrong ? And what , if anything , can and should be done to fix it ?

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    gale, this is kind of a weird approach.  You're asking for people's opinion on what went wrong, but you're also saying that you've already had your fill of explanations from people who think the FO did the right things, and you find them to be nothing more than lame apologies.

    So basically what you're saying is, can people please just say what I want to hear, which is that the FO messed up big time like I've been saying from the start?

      

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Again and less wordy:

    PEDROIA'S AND NAPOLI'S POOR CLUTCH HITTING (.200 and .180 w/RISP respectively in the first half).

     

    [/QUOTE]

    And it will be your mantra for 2014...duly noted.

    [/QUOTE]

    I know I've been harping on this for awhile, but it's so glaring. The Sox as a team, with the exception of Ortiz, have been horrible in the clutch. Regardless of what the Sox did, they had the reasonable expectation that their No. 3 hitter and the No. 5 hitter would at least equal their career averages.

    I don't know how anyone can simply ignore how bad they've been when it comes to hitting with runners on base. The Sox have lost 20 games by one run. You don't think that had Pedroia hit like he normally does w/RISP that it might be worth at least two or three more wins? And if Napoli hit like he should have, that worth another two or three wins in those one-run games.

    So instead of 47 wins, the Sox might be 53-47. Even it everyone did the same, the Sox would be just 2.5 games out. Maybe that takes pressure off Bogaerts and Bradley, not to mention what it does to the opposing pitchers.

    Then if Middlebrooks hit like hit did the last two months last year, that might be worth another two wins and the Sox are right there. So then, if everyone else did the same as they've done now, the Sox would be right there battling for first place.

    I really don't understand how any reasonable analysis of this season doesn't begin with how bad two key veterans in the heart of the order have been at driving in runs. How is it Larry's fault, or Ben's fault or Farrell's fault that Pedroia and Napoli have been so horrible this year at driving in runs?

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: 2014 Boston Red Sox : What went wrong?

    I posted at the beginning of the season (maybe it was still spring training) that the team had "apathetic" all spring. Watching Spring Training was like watching grass grow. It was a hang-over, plain and simple, and nobody showed up with the alka selzer until Holt was finally given his chance. By then it was too late. Peavy has been a 4 innings pitcher all year, and everyone was hoping he'd lengthen out. Well, that was one case. Too many to mention.

     
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