2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    What has Farrell got against running? Tues nite, 1st and 2nd, no outs, Victorino, a good bunter, -----DP.


    What is it, stats crazy again? No sense of the game in progress?


    This was not about exercising an option; this was a plain, dumb, move! AGAIN!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    You should have left out the sac bunts stats, mal.  


    Because in 2013 they were also 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts, in the process of LEADING THE MAJORS IN RUNS SCORED AND WINNING THE WORLD SERIES.


    The Red Sox are almost always near the bottom in sac bunts, and you could look it up. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:


    What has Farrell got against running? Tues nite, 1st and 2nd, no outs, Victorino, a good bunter, -----DP.


     


    What is it, stats crazy again? No sense of the game in progress?


     


    This was not about exercising an option; this was a plain, dumb, move! AGAIN!





    Okay, Victorino bunts successfully.  That leaves that noted speedster Napoli on 3rd and Gomes on 2nd and brings up Drew, who a) can't hit left handed pitching and b) is 0-2 with a foul out and a soft fly to left off of the lefty pitcher.  What are the odds that he puts a ball in play well enough to score a run? 


     


    Dumb move?  I don't think so.  I think Victorino has the better shot to drive in the run at that point.


     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    While both sac bunts and stolen bases have their places in the game, sac bunts are way overused and stolen bases are overrated.   Contrary to popular belief, the Sox are not in the position that they are in because of the lack of stolen bases.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    I wish they were last in sacrifice bunts.  It's as sensible as buying a lottery ticket.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    For all of my fellow stat lovers, here is an interesting stat that I read about on another site - TOOTBLAN, Thrown Out On The Basepaths Like A Nincompoop.

    Contrary to what it feels like (to me anyway), the Sox have not run into an unusual amount of outs.   They are right in the middle of the AL pack with 40.  The Tigers are the worst in the league with 52 and the Rays are the best with 29.

    Interestingly enough, Pedroia leads the team with 7, followed by JBJ, Papi, and AJ, each with 4.

     

     

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm shocked that there's actually a team that has less stolen bases than the SOX.

    [/QUOTE]


    And guess what place that team is in.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    I am not a fan of the sac bunt except in a few situations. Obviously with a pitcher batting it often makes sense. With just three outs to work with, you should think carefully before giving one up. As for stolen bases, if you have guys who can consistently steal with a high rate of success, then by all means do it. If you don't have that , then you have to play it safe and pick your spots to run. The whole thing comes down to playing smart baseball. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    Well, either way, its really working out well for us this year, isn't it ?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    Stolen bases are a situational strategy.  Before the season, the cry was “how do we replace Ellsbury’s stolen bases?”  That’s a silly way of looking at it.  It’s like saying “how do we replace all of Dempster’s pitch outs?”  They have their time and place and are not a cumulative stat anyone needs to worry about the team excelling in overall.  If you need one and think you can pull it off – yes. 

     

    I’m also not a fan of the sacrifice bunt, except in certain instances.  Pitcher batting aside, I do like it when it brings the infield in, which somewhat mitigates the loss of an out by increasing the batter’s chances. 

     

    However, I don’t think it should have been done in that instance.  Victorino is a much better hitter against LHP, and Drew is a much worse one in those same instances.  Why give up an out when it reduces the chances of getting a hit?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You should have left out the sac bunts stats, mal.  

     

    Because in 2013 they were also 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts, in the process of LEADING THE MAJORS IN RUNS SCORED AND WINNING THE WORLD SERIES.

     

    The Red Sox are almost always near the bottom in sac bunts, and you could look it up. 

    [/QUOTE]


    That's because very few KNOW HOW to bunt! Which is important, and why I mentioned the hitter, Victorino has always been a very good bunter! I know how lousy they have been in trying to bunt, but in this case I maintin it was stupid not to. The game is getting along, opportunities are not there very often. BUNT when you get a chance to be successful.

    What has last year got to do with it? Did they change the rules? It was a different team; or haven't you noticed?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Stolen bases are a situational strategy.  Before the season, the cry was “how do we replace Ellsbury’s stolen bases?”  That’s a silly way of looking at it.  It’s like saying “how do we replace all of Dempster’s pitch outs?”  They have their time and place and are not a cumulative stat anyone needs to worry about the team excelling in overall.  If you need one and think you can pull it off – yes. 

     

    I’m also not a fan of the sacrifice bunt, except in certain instances.  Pitcher batting aside, I do like it when it brings the infield in, which somewhat mitigates the loss of an out by increasing the batter’s chances. 

     

    However, I don’t think it should have been done in that instance.  Victorino is a much better hitter against LHP, and Drew is a much worse one in those same instances.  Why give up an out when it reduces the chances of getting a hit?

    [/QUOTE]


    Because they had faced Victorino twice and knew what not to throw him. They kept the ball down, and that was predictable; as was the DP

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm shocked that there's actually a team that has less stolen bases than the SOX.

    [/QUOTE]


    And guess what place that team is in.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    where do they rank in sac bunts..........4th 1 behind 2nd

    just can't understand how anyone who saw ricky or johnny jr play regularity

     can dismiss the SB so easily

    unless it helps them sleep better

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    That's because very few KNOW HOW to bunt! Which is important, and why I mentioned the hitter, Victorino has always been a very good bunter! I know how lousy they have been in trying to bunt, but in this case I maintin it was stupid not to. The game is getting along, opportunities are not there very often. BUNT when you get a chance to be successful.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why would you want to sacrifice Victorino to get to Drew in that situation?  You have to think about who's up next, man.  You are really not thinking it through.

    Besides, it was only the 6th inning.   

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    Another pertinent fact here: Victorino has only grounded into 55 DP's in his career, in 1,222 games - that's once every 22 games.  But crap happens in baseball.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from practial. Show practial's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What has Farrell got against running? Tues nite, 1st and 2nd, no outs, Victorino, a good bunter, -----DP.

     

    What is it, stats crazy again? No sense of the game in progress?

     

    This was not about exercising an option; this was a plain, dumb, move! AGAIN!

    [/QUOTE]


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from practial. Show practial's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What has Farrell got against running? Tues nite, 1st and 2nd, no outs, Victorino, a good bunter, -----DP.

     

    What is it, stats crazy again? No sense of the game in progress?

     

    This was not about exercising an option; this was a plain, dumb, move! AGAIN!

    [/QUOTE]


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Stolen bases are a situational strategy.  Before the season, the cry was “how do we replace Ellsbury’s stolen bases?”  That’s a silly way of looking at it.  It’s like saying “how do we replace all of Dempster’s pitch outs?”  They have their time and place and are not a cumulative stat anyone needs to worry about the team excelling in overall.  If you need one and think you can pull it off – yes. 

     

    I’m also not a fan of the sacrifice bunt, except in certain instances.  Pitcher batting aside, I do like it when it brings the infield in, which somewhat mitigates the loss of an out by increasing the batter’s chances. 

     

    However, I don’t think it should have been done in that instance.  Victorino is a much better hitter against LHP, and Drew is a much worse one in those same instances.  Why give up an out when it reduces the chances of getting a hit?

    Ellsbury stole 52 times last year - thats 52 times he put himself into scoring position for the batter...whats situational about that? the batter simply needs to get a hit and 95% of the time Ells would score...you dont think they miss that? try looking at Pedroias stats w/o Ells in front of him

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    And it helps if you create doubt in the minds of the opposition, especially when the shift is on and one side of the infield is almost vacant

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm shocked that there's actually a team that has less stolen bases than the SOX.

    [/QUOTE]


    And guess what place that team is in.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    where do they rank in sac bunts..........4th 1 behind 2nd

    just can't understand how anyone who saw ricky or johnny jr play regularity

     can dismiss the SB so easily

    unless it helps them sleep better

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i prefer the RS stat for my first 2 hitters in the lineup.  and the leadoff man that has replaced ellsbury easily eclipses Ells RS rate......

    other names i have posted under:  none

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    where do they rank in sac bunts..........4th 1 behind 2nd

    just can't understand how anyone who saw ricky or johnny jr play regularity

     can dismiss the SB so easily

    unless it helps them sleep better

    [/QUOTE]


    There are times when a stolen base is huge, as with Dave Roberts' stolen base in the ALCS.  Ellsbury's stolen base against the Reds on Sunday also turned out to be huge.   No one is saying that they don't have their place in a baseball game.

    I've already posted that Henderson's net effect of his 130 stolen bases and his 76% success rate (which is above the break even point) was 1.6 runs over the season.  

    Stolen bases are exciting, and fans tend to remember when they lead directly to a run, particularly a big run.  What fans don't tend to remember is how detrimental a caught stealing can be to a rally, or the fact that the large majority of the time, a stolen base either did not lead to a run, or was not necessary in order for that run to score.

    I am not dismissing that a stolen base can be a game changer.  However, I am dismissing the notion that having Ellsbury and his stolen bases would make a significant difference to the Sox this year or that the Sox need to steal more bases. 

    BTW, referring to Ellsbury as Johnny Jr. is the ultimate insult to Ellsbury.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    I like the stolen base and the sac bunt. They add excitement to the game and put runners in scoring position, when successful. Maybe some folks haven't noticed but scoring runs is not a particularly is strong suit of the 2014 Sox. And while it is true that the sac bunt usually results in conceding an out, sometimes the bunt results in a base hit or in having the fielder rush the throw and hurl the ball into center field or past the 1st baseman.


    When you have 2 men on and no out moving the runners over to second and third means you can score without a hit on a sac fly or even a ground out. It's certainly not a bad strategy late in a close game, especially when you're at the bottom of the order. If you don't have a lineup with a high-scoring bunch---like the 2013 Sox---a little small ball shouldn't be dismissed so readily.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When you have 2 men on and no out moving the runners over to second and third means you can score without a hit on a sac fly or even a ground out. It's certainly not a bad strategy late in a close game, especially when you're at the bottom of the order. If you don't have a lineup with a high-scoring bunch---like the 2013 Sox---a little small ball shouldn't be dismissed so readily.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that small ball shouldn't be dismissed.  I think the bunt is the right play in certain circumstances, but they're pretty limited.

    Bunting with 2 men on and no out might seem like it's almost guaranteed to produce a run, but it's not a slam dunk at all.  In fact, when you do it, you might be only one pitch from the inning being over.  How?  The opponent walks the next guy to load the bases with one out.  Then the next batter hits a ground ball and boom, DP, inning over. 

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: 2nd from last in SB, 3rd from last in sacrifice bunts

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When you have 2 men on and no out moving the runners over to second and third means you can score without a hit on a sac fly or even a ground out. It's certainly not a bad strategy late in a close game, especially when you're at the bottom of the order. If you don't have a lineup with a high-scoring bunch---like the 2013 Sox---a little small ball shouldn't be dismissed so readily.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that small ball shouldn't be dismissed.  I think the bunt is the right play in certain circumstances, but they're pretty limited.

    Bunting with 2 men on and no out might seem like it's almost guaranteed to produce a run, but it's not a slam dunk at all.  In fact, when you do it, you might be only one pitch from the inning being over.  How?  The opponent walks the next guy to load the bases with one out.  Then the next batter hits a ground ball and boom, DP, inning over. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think I'd rather have the bases loaded with one out, than men on 1st and 2nd with 0 outs. Anytime!

     

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