5 tool?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    What about Pedey?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    Current - CarGo, Hamilton, Tulowitski, L. McCutcheon, Kemp

    Current 4.5 - Pedey (foot speed), Ells (arm), Cano (foot speed)


    Past - Mays (thru '66), Mantle (thru '62), Aaron, Bobby Bonds, Dawson, Lynn, Yaz, Clemente, Cobb, DiMaggio, Morgan, Yount (in '82), Griffey, Snider, Hornsby, Henderson, Kaline, Brett, Al Simmons, Wagner, Puckett, Winfield, Cool Papa Bell; I'm sure I left a few out

    Greatest & Complete 5 Toolers - Mays, then Clemente; both had incredible arms and defensive prowess, and Clemente played in a near impossible park for dingers
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    I know the 30-30 club only measures 2 tools, but it is a list to look at to fins others who could be 4-5 tool players:


    My childhood baseball hero was Tommy Harper. He became just the secon American leaguer to reach the 30-30 club. He certainly wasn't even a 3 tool player, but I wanted to mention him.

    Some names on the list to remember:
    Eric Davis
    Dale Murphy
    Larry Walker
    Ellis Burks
    Vladimir Guerrero
    Jimmy Rollins
    Hanley Ramirez
    Ryan Braun
    Matt Kemp
    Joe Carter
    Jose Canseco
    Alfonso Soriano
    Grady Sizemore



     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    six tool - josh beckett

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    The "five tool" thng gets thrown around at any player who can hit a home run and steal a base.  I't very overused and rarely used properly.

    For some reason, being a five tool player is viewed as the ultimate compliment, the "perfect player."  There are plenty of good players who are not 5-tool, and plenty of 5-tool players who were not all that great.

    JD Drew for example, was a five tool player.  Albert Pujols has never been.  Which one will walk into Cooperstown?  Shaun Green was a five tool player. but hardly an all time great, too.

    As for Crawford, I'd agree with anyone who says he is a 3-tool player...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    In Response to Re: 5 tool?:
    Current - CarGo, Hamilton, Tulowitski, L. McCutcheon, Kemp Current 4.5 - Pedey (foot speed), Ells (arm), Cano (foot speed) Past - Mays (thru '66), Mantle (thru '62), Aaron, Bobby Bonds, Dawson, Lynn, Yaz, Clemente, Cobb, DiMaggio, Morgan, Yount (in '82), Griffey, Snider, Hornsby, Henderson, Kaline, Brett, Al Simmons, Wagner, Puckett, Winfield, Cool Papa Bell; I'm sure I left a few out Greatest & Complete 5 Toolers - Mays, then Clemente; both had incredible arms and defensive prowess, and Clemente played in a near impossible park for dingers
    Posted by nhsteven


    Also, David Wright and Ian Kinsler would meet fan criteria as 5-tool players.

    However, the 5-tool label is really only supposed to be appiled at the minor league level, and is nothing more than scouting jargon. The most a propos name to apply it to should be Mike Trout.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    Just one tool...unfortunately it's a monkey wrench.  Seriously though fans have to get over the CC signing.  He will be with the Sox for a long time to come and the posts are getting old and they are all the same.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    In Response to Re: 5 tool?:
    Just one tool...unfortunately it's a monkey wrench.  Seriously though fans have to get over the CC signing.  He will be with the Sox for a long time to come and the posts are getting old and they are all the same.
    Posted by traven


    Amen.

    And if it means we "only" have $150mill to make a contender, I think we'll manage.

    Believe it or not, it is possible...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    Ellsbury does not "consistently hit for power", has a weak arm, and has never seen a ball he wanted to dive for or hit the wall to catch. He misplays routine balls and then makes them appear to be "web gems". Ellsbury is an "on the shelf" tool who has speed and hits for average. He's a 2 tool tool who is worthy of carrying Ortiz's luggage.

    Crawford is a 1 tool player, which was why I said to "avoid market contract offers for Carl Crawford, like the plague".
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    For my take I generally think of outfielders when I think of "5 Tools."

    However today I would say Hanley is close  ARod and  Hamilton are in the same category.

    I think "In the Day" outfielders that had arms like Dewey's and Clemente's were the stuff that coaches never allowed runners to advance on. But 5 tools is a God Given talent few are blessed with.
     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    In Response to Re: 5 tool?:
    six tool - josh beckett
    Posted by georom4

     LMAO!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    How about set standards for each tool?  Well rounded is nice but to be just "average" at each is not really.

    How about

    AVG = 333, OBP = 400 (maybe < 100 K's?)
    HR = 40, SLG = 600%
    SB = /> 30, SB % /> 75%
    Defenise = Eye Test

    And then for what time period?  How many years?  Perhaps average out their prime 5 years?

    Maybe just look at Willie Mays for the standard across all categories and try and find guys who have exceeded this. 

    So, who do yo guys think is the biggest beast today in all categories and who is of all time?  Off the top of my head I'd have to say Mays & Hamilton....By the way, should we ingore "corner players" ?  It's hard for a SS, 2B, and CF consistently bash 40 HR's........


     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulLaCourse. Show PaulLaCourse's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    In Response to 5 tool?:
    i don't think you can have enough posts about a 140+ million dollar ballplayer; so here's one more. watching the MLB network the other night, one of the commentators mentioned that the SOX would be in much better shape when their 5 tool player carl crawford returned. now my definition of the 5 tools is: 1) can hit for high average 2) can hit consistently with power 3) has speed on the bases 4) can play excellent defense 5) possesses a strong throwing arm. ignoring that commentator who lives in fantasyland, how many tools do you think crawford possesses? ps. before some of my fellow posters say it. yes, i'm a tool.
    Posted by mryazz


    Well I am sure he has a hammer and a screwdriver; every household has one. Other than that I am not sure if he has any tools at all.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    Ellsbury is the best 5 tools of knowledge players from this past and current generation:

    1. Knows how to take as much sick leave as possilbe with full pay
    2. Knows how to avoid walls
    3. Knows how to take the bloopers/end of the bat on one high hop
    4. Knows how to make the control clock run without any risk to his health
    5. Knows how to read from his agent's notes on questions related to his commitement to winning for and with the team

    Any GM that fails to study Ellsbury's numbers with weak hitters around him will regret market contract offers, more than the offers on Crawford.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    In Response to Re: 5 tool?:
    I know the 30-30 club only measures 2 tools, but it is a list to look at to fins others who could be 4-5 tool players: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hi3030c.shtml My childhood baseball hero was Tommy Harper. He became just the secon American leaguer to reach the 30-30 club. He certainly wasn't even a 3 tool player, but I wanted to mention him. Some names on the list to remember: Eric Davis Dale Murphy Larry Walker Ellis Burks Vladimir Guerrero Jimmy Rollins Hanley Ramirez Ryan Braun Matt Kemp Joe Carter Jose Canseco Alfonso Soriano Grady Sizemore
    Posted by moonslav59


    Canseco, Guerrero, Soriano, Carter, Ramirez, (and to some degree Braun) were never superior fielders.

    Rollins was arguably never a superior hitter, either for average or power

    Sizemore was good for a year or two, then was b-nged up

    Eric Davis had big holes in his swing, and injuries made his talents fade quickly
     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    Hank, when did Ellsbury have weak hitters around him?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    In Response to Re: 5 tool?:
    The "five tool" thng gets thrown around at any player who can hit a home run and steal a base.  I't very overused and rarely used properly. For some reason, being a five tool player is viewed as the ultimate compliment, the "perfect player."  There are plenty of good players who are not 5-tool, and plenty of 5-tool players who were not all that great. JD Drew for example, was a five tool player.  Albert Pujols has never been.  Which one will walk into Cooperstown?  Shaun Green was a five tool player. but hardly an all time great, too. As for Crawford, I'd agree with anyone who says he is a 3-tool player...
    Posted by notin


    Completely agree, which is why I first listed all those truly great players--Williams, Ruth, Cobb, etc--who were not at all five tool players.  If I had to pick one guy as the all time best, it would probably be Ruth because he hit a lot of dingers, still batted over .340 for his career, and was a heckuva pitcher (in Boston, anyway).  Second place I would probably give to Mays because I actually saw him play, if only on TV.  At his HOF induction, he said something like, "I gotta say I never saw anybody play the game better."  Now that's chutzpah, but pretty close to the mark.

    Drew was sort of a five tool player except maybe for the baserunning.  I used to rail about how little he contributed, but in fact he was a heckuva defensive rightfielder who could sometimes hit the ball pretty well. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: 5 tool?

    In Response to Re: 5 tool?:
    Ellsbury is the best 5 tools of knowledge players from this past and current generation: 1. Knows how to take as much sick leave as possilbe with full pay 2. Knows how to avoid walls 3. Knows how to take the bloopers/end of the bat on one high hop 4. Knows how to make the control clock run without any risk to his health 5. Knows how to read from his agent's notes on questions related to his commitement to winning for and with the team Any GM that fails to study Ellsbury's numbers with weak hitters around him will regret market contract offers, more than the offers on Crawford.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    The funniest thing about your painting of Ellsbury as a work-shirking, soft, arby-clock-milker is that both of the injuries he has sustained to keep him out of action for prolonged periods were from bang-bang, all-out-hustle, no-fear plays.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share