A Big "What If" Concerning Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Drew; What Would You Do?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To me..those talking trade for Middlebrooks reveal themselves as fair weather fans.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think it's a question of being a fair weather fan.  I just happen to like Drew at SS and Bogey at 3B, like on that team that, you know, won the World Series.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, but it's hardly like Bogaerts was the key bat that led them to the Series. He hit just .238 in the Series. It was the Middlebrooks-Drew combination at 3B-SS the last two months that played a big role in the Sox pulling away from the pack.

    I like Drew and if Bogaerts or Middlebrooks weren't around, I'd like him back. But I really think a Middlebrooks-Bogaerts left side of the infield could be a great tandom for many years.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To me..those talking trade for Middlebrooks reveal themselves as fair weather fans.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think it's a question of being a fair weather fan.  I just happen to like Drew at SS and Bogey at 3B, like on that team that, you know, won the World Series.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, but it's hardly like Bogaerts was the key bat that led them to the Series. He hit just .238 in the Series. It was the Middlebrooks-Drew combination at 3B-SS the last two months that played a big role in the Sox pulling away from the pack.

    I like Drew and if Bogaerts or Middlebrooks weren't around, I'd like him back. But I really think a Middlebrooks-Bogaerts left side of the infield could be a great tandom for many years.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am of the impression that is not the plan however. At some point in the next 18-24 months the starting SS most likely is Marerro with either Boegardts at 3B or a corner OF spot 

    IMO Drew is being looked at as a 1 year plug in while the 3 young guys get their feet under them. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: A Big

     

    I am of the impression that is not the plan however. At some point in the next 18-24 months the starting SS most likely is Marerro with either Boegardts at 3B or a corner OF spot 

    IMO Drew is being looked at as a 1 year plug in while the 3 young guys get their feet under them. 

    [/QUOTE]

    karp,

    Not so sure I completely agree...I do think that moving Bogaerts is part of the long term contingency, if he proves to be a liability at SS...in the near term his bat plays as a huge competitive advantage at a position typically not maned by an elite offensive player...Bogaerts doesn't need to be a gold glover, merely able to make the routine plays look routine.

    Marrero, not unlike Iglesias is an above average defensive SS, who has yet to prove he can be productive enough with the bat to be an everyday SS in the big leagues...though he still has time to develop. His bio suggest that he projects as a bottom of the order type...

    http://www.soxprospects.com/players/marrero-deven.htm

    Question, regarding Drew, I could be wrong, but is there a single article or news story that states the Red Sox have infact made Drew an offer of any real substance....the only thing I've read is Cherington eluding to the Sox having interest in resigning him, something he also stated about Ellsbury too. 

    That said, given Bogaerts age, along with having Middlebrooks, signing Drew to a 1 or 2 year deal won't IMHO impede eithers development..It's as easy as Boggy starts the year in AAA, and Middlebrooks then gets a couple of months to prove he is indeed worthy of being an everyday major league 3B...If Middlebrooks is tearing the cover off the ball and shows improving plate disipline...they can always then trade Drew in June or July...It's a good problem to have...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't understand the eagerness to trade Middlebrooks. The guy has great power but is coming off a wrist injury. Isn't this the same guy everyone was falling all over themselves for in 2012 when he was doing great. Injuries are part of the game and sometimes when a player comes off an injury ( especially wrist/arm/shoulder) it takes time to get everything back.  Middy has great power. To me that is reason enough to keep him at least for another season.

    To me..those talking trade for Middlebrooks reveal themselves as fair weather fans.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think someone said he doesn't have a quick first step.  Someone else doesn't like the way he looks on tv.  17 homers in 90 something games isn't bad.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I am of the impression that is not the plan however. At some point in the next 18-24 months the starting SS most likely is Marerro with either Boegardts at 3B or a corner OF spot 

    [/QUOTE]


    You might be right, but you never know. Fans and pundits were trying to move Ripken off SS for years, but he ended up staying at SS the most of his career. That could be the same with Bogaerts.

    But he's versatile, so he could be like Pete Rose. Start at SS (instead of 2B) move to OF then to 3B then end up at 1B. 

    Miiddlebrooks could start at 3B, move to 1B in a couple of years when Napoli is done, opening 3B for Bogaerts and SS for Mavarro or keep Bogaerts at SS and Cecchini at 3B.

    And it's easier to find a power-hitting 1B than power at SS and 3B, so if Bogaerts and Middlebrooks are doing their job, they could stay there and find someone else to play 1B in a couple of years.

    There probably is a plan in place, but it's unlikley that it's etched in stone. Good organizations have plans, but also flexibility when players exceed expectations or underachieve.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: A Big

    Well, I wouldnt worry that part yet.  Ben C. have alot of way to improve the team as the season move on this year.  He got alot of talents in the farm system.  They may not make into the playoff, but they could continue to go to the right direction in the future and save big time $$$$$$.

    As long the Yankees do not make into the playoff either.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from vic5014. Show vic5014's posts

    Re: A Big

    Give Middlebrooks another chance at the MLB level and maybe sign Drew to a 2-year contract. I know the Sox clearly think Bogaerts is ready, but I don't think he's had much time at AAA and he's still very young. A little more seasoning wouldn't hurt. The only thing I'd consider is how much he has left to prove with the PawSox. I just don't think they should bring him up just to be the backup guy and ride the bench.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Big

    You might be right, but you never know. Fans and pundits were trying to move Ripken off SS for years, but he ended up staying at SS the most of his career. That could be the same with Bogaerts.

    Rip should have been moved, at least towards the end of his career.

     

    But he's versatile, so he could be like Pete Rose. Start at SS (instead of 2B) move to OF then to 3B then end up at 1B. 

    Miiddlebrooks could start at 3B, move to 1B in a couple of years when Napoli is done, opening 3B for Bogaerts and SS for Mavarro or keep Bogaerts at SS and Cecchini at 3B.

    And it's easier to find a power-hitting 1B than power at SS and 3B, so if Bogaerts and Middlebrooks are doing their job, they could stay there and find someone else to play 1B in a couple of years.

    There probably is a plan in place, but it's unlikley that it's etched in stone. Good organizations have plans, but also flexibility when players exceed expectations or underachieve.

     

    I think Middy is a better fielding 3Bman than Cecchini, so maybe Cecchini moves to 1B not Middy.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You might be right, but you never know. Fans and pundits were trying to move Ripken off SS for years, but he ended up staying at SS the most of his career. That could be the same with Bogaerts.

    Rip should have been moved, at least towards the end of his career.

     

    But he's versatile, so he could be like Pete Rose. Start at SS (instead of 2B) move to OF then to 3B then end up at 1B. 

    Miiddlebrooks could start at 3B, move to 1B in a couple of years when Napoli is done, opening 3B for Bogaerts and SS for Mavarro or keep Bogaerts at SS and Cecchini at 3B.

    And it's easier to find a power-hitting 1B than power at SS and 3B, so if Bogaerts and Middlebrooks are doing their job, they could stay there and find someone else to play 1B in a couple of years.

    There probably is a plan in place, but it's unlikley that it's etched in stone. Good organizations have plans, but also flexibility when players exceed expectations or underachieve.

     

    I think Middy is a better fielding 3Bman than Cecchini, so maybe Cecchini moves to 1B not Middy.

    [/QUOTE]

    If Middlebrooks and Cecchini are on the same team then Cecchini likely won't be at 3rd with WMB at first, I agree.  It seems the baseball scouting world has really come around to Bogaerts defense, while no one is saying he is a plus defender, they all think he will be average.  An average SS is a plus defender at every other position not behind the plate.  The kid is athletic, although I think the assumption is (and I agree) that he is going to lose a step when he fills out and 3B would be a better position for him where he could round out to be a plus defender.

    I think everything comes down to what WMB does.  If his level of play justifies a starting role, then Bogaerts will man SS for at least several years and Cecchini will have to find his way in at 1B or LF.  It's WMB job to lose at this point.  And I doubt the Sox are going to make any drastic decisions in spring training.....and let us all pray to the baseball gods that the Sox hand isn't forced to make some kinda drastic decision (injury) 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Big

    If Middlebrooks and Cecchini are on the same team then Cecchini likely won't be at 3rd with WMB at first, I agree.  It seems the baseball scouting world has really come around to Bogaerts defense, while no one is saying he is a plus defender, they all think he will be average.  An average SS is a plus defender at every other position not behind the plate.  The kid is athletic, although I think the assumption is (and I agree) that he is going to lose a step when he fills out and 3B would be a better position for him where he could round out to be a plus defender.

    I think everything comes down to what WMB does.  If his level of play justifies a starting role, then Bogaerts will man SS for at least several years and Cecchini will have to find his way in at 1B or LF.  It's WMB job to lose at this point.  And I doubt the Sox are going to make any drastic decisions in spring training.....and let us all pray to the baseball gods that the Sox hand isn't forced to make some kinda drastic decision (injury) 

     

    Well said, and I suppose if Marrero improves on the farm, there may be a future decision about Marrero vs Middy (Bogey to 3B) assuming Cecchini is at 1B or OF by then.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Middlebrooks and Cecchini are on the same team then Cecchini likely won't be at 3rd with WMB at first, I agree.  It seems the baseball scouting world has really come around to Bogaerts defense, while no one is saying he is a plus defender, they all think he will be average.  An average SS is a plus defender at every other position not behind the plate.  The kid is athletic, although I think the assumption is (and I agree) that he is going to lose a step when he fills out and 3B would be a better position for him where he could round out to be a plus defender.

    I think everything comes down to what WMB does.  If his level of play justifies a starting role, then Bogaerts will man SS for at least several years and Cecchini will have to find his way in at 1B or LF.  It's WMB job to lose at this point.  And I doubt the Sox are going to make any drastic decisions in spring training.....and let us all pray to the baseball gods that the Sox hand isn't forced to make some kinda drastic decision (injury) 

     

    Well said, and I suppose if Marrero improves on the farm, there may be a future decision about Marrero vs Middy (Bogey to 3B) assuming Cecchini is at 1B or OF by then.

    [/QUOTE]

    When evaluating a prospects accension to the big leagues...aside from the obvious statistical measures and which of the 5 tools they posses. There's two very inmortant factors that come into play...where they play and their age...Most position players will prove themselves worthy by league age 22...The top prospects make the jump to AAA in thier league age 21 or 22 seasons and the big's in thier league aged 23 or 24 seasons.

    Players like Bogaerts are the exception to the rule...

    Marreo turns 24 this August in terms of league age the time is now for him. To date Marreo has shown he posses 3 of the 5 tools, defense, arm stregnth and has decent speed...He lacks the two most important of the five tools, which is the ability to hit for average and power. As such, he might well end up playing SS for the Sox, but they're not going to move Bogaerts to make room for a bottom of the order hitter....more likely he ends up as a utility IF or is traded..

    Cecchini turns 23 this spring and is on track to get his cup of coffee this year...end of the day, the kid can flat out hit and has shown that he embodies all of the attributes the Sox look for in a hitter but to date has not blossomed into a power bat many scouts think he has the potential to be...His defense still needs work but in fairness he still learning to play 3B. I would not be surprised to see him in Fenway before September. 

    So I see both having value....Cecchini is the guy that has the best chance to make an impact...If Middlebrooks struggles for an extended period, it wouldn't surprise me to see Cecchini maning third...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: A Big

    There could be some big time talent at the 33rd spot in this years Draft. A lot depends on how committed the Draft Prospects are to College.

     From the Mocks I'm reading, Forbes, Zimmer, and Medeiros all could be there. I'd love to Draft Forbes, then move him to 1st base.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: A Big

    This just in: from the Herald -- don't expect to see Drew

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2014/01/red_sox_not_sold_on_stephen_drew

     

    Red Sox not sold on Stephen Drew Appear ready to roll without veteran SS 072913soxmw004.jpg Photo by:  Matt West Stephen Drew 1 Wednesday, January 22, 2014 Print Email 207 Comments By: Scott Lauber    

    Perhaps it’s merely posturing, what with only 25 days left before pitchers and catchers must report to Fort Myers, but the Red Sox sound like they’re ready to move on without Stephen Drew.

    Before appearing last night at the annual Hot Stove Cool Music roundtable charity event at Fenway Park, general manager Ben Cherington said the Sox “feel good about where we are right now” without Drew on the roster. He declined to offer specifics on discussions with agent Scott Boras except to say, “I think the time that’s being spent on it talking about it publicly is not necessarily consistent with the time we’re spending on it.”

    In other words, the Sox are no closer to re-signing Drew than they were in November, when the shortstop declined their one-year, $14.1 million qualifying offer.

    “We feel like we’re in good shape to start the season tomorrow if we had to,” Cherington said. “There’s a circumstance for the Red Sox in that we have players that we believe in and bigger-picture things that we want to do, and some of that has nothing to do with Stephen Drew.

    “Stephen did a great job for us last year. We respect him, and because of that, we’ve kept a dialogue going. But there’s nothing to be gleaned from that other than we’ve kept a dialogue going. We’re comfortable where we are. I don’t ever want to rule anything out because it doesn’t make any sense to do that, but we like the roster we have now.”

    If the Red Sox don’t re-sign Drew, they’re prepared to go forward with touted rookie Xander Bogaerts at shortstop and Will Middlebrooks at third base. Any other team that signs Drew will have to forfeit a draft pick as compensation, which appears to have minimized his market.

    The New York Mets have been linked to Drew, although they reportedly are reluctant to offer more than a one- or two-year deal. Boras might be hoping the Yankees get involved if they determine Derek Jeter is unable to play shortstop full-time after missing most of last season while recovering from a broken ankle.

    For most of the offseason, Red Sox manager John Farrell has been candid about his desire to re-sign Drew. His tone seemed to change slightly last night.

    “I deal with the players we have. That’s kind of where my focus is limited to,” Farrell said. “If there’s a late addition, if there’s a scenario where Stephen comes back to us as we get closer to camp, we’re well aware of what Stephen’s capable of.”

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to Ergoetal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This just in: from the Herald -- don't expect to see Drew

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2014/01/red_sox_not_sold_on_stephen_drew

     

    Red Sox not sold on Stephen Drew Appear ready to roll without veteran SS 072913soxmw004.jpg Photo by:  Matt West Stephen Drew 1 Wednesday, January 22, 2014 Print Email 207 Comments By: Scott Lauber   

    Perhaps it’s merely posturing, what with only 25 days left before pitchers and catchers must report to Fort Myers, but the Red Sox sound like they’re ready to move on without Stephen Drew.

    Before appearing last night at the annual Hot Stove Cool Music roundtable charity event at Fenway Park, general manager Ben Cherington said the Sox “feel good about where we are right now” without Drew on the roster. He declined to offer specifics on discussions with agent Scott Boras except to say, “I think the time that’s being spent on it talking about it publicly is not necessarily consistent with the time we’re spending on it.”

    In other words, the Sox are no closer to re-signing Drew than they were in November, when the shortstop declined their one-year, $14.1 million qualifying offer.

    “We feel like we’re in good shape to start the season tomorrow if we had to,” Cherington said. “There’s a circumstance for the Red Sox in that we have players that we believe in and bigger-picture things that we want to do, and some of that has nothing to do with Stephen Drew.

    “Stephen did a great job for us last year. We respect him, and because of that, we’ve kept a dialogue going. But there’s nothing to be gleaned from that other than we’ve kept a dialogue going. We’re comfortable where we are. I don’t ever want to rule anything out because it doesn’t make any sense to do that, but we like the roster we have now.”

    If the Red Sox don’t re-sign Drew, they’re prepared to go forward with touted rookie Xander Bogaerts at shortstop and Will Middlebrooks at third base. Any other team that signs Drew will have to forfeit a draft pick as compensation, which appears to have minimized his market.

    The New York Mets have been linked to Drew, although they reportedly are reluctant to offer more than a one- or two-year deal. Boras might be hoping the Yankees get involved if they determine Derek Jeter is unable to play shortstop full-time after missing most of last season while recovering from a broken ankle.

    For most of the offseason, Red Sox manager John Farrell has been candid about his desire to re-sign Drew. His tone seemed to change slightly last night.

    “I deal with the players we have. That’s kind of where my focus is limited to,” Farrell said. “If there’s a late addition, if there’s a scenario where Stephen comes back to us as we get closer to camp, we’re well aware of what Stephen’s capable of.”

    [/QUOTE]

    I hope this is true. I like Stephen Drew -- a more than J.D. -- but because Bogaerts appears ready and I'm big on Middlebrooks, there's not a place for him in Boston.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: A Big

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Middlebrooks and Cecchini are on the same team then Cecchini likely won't be at 3rd with WMB at first, I agree.  It seems the baseball scouting world has really come around to Bogaerts defense, while no one is saying he is a plus defender, they all think he will be average.  An average SS is a plus defender at every other position not behind the plate.  The kid is athletic, although I think the assumption is (and I agree) that he is going to lose a step when he fills out and 3B would be a better position for him where he could round out to be a plus defender.

    I think everything comes down to what WMB does.  If his level of play justifies a starting role, then Bogaerts will man SS for at least several years and Cecchini will have to find his way in at 1B or LF.  It's WMB job to lose at this point.  And I doubt the Sox are going to make any drastic decisions in spring training.....and let us all pray to the baseball gods that the Sox hand isn't forced to make some kinda drastic decision (injury) 

     

    Well said, and I suppose if Marrero improves on the farm, there may be a future decision about Marrero vs Middy (Bogey to 3B) assuming Cecchini is at 1B or OF by then.

    [/QUOTE]

    When evaluating a prospects accension to the big leagues...aside from the obvious statistical measures and which of the 5 tools they posses. There's two very inmortant factors that come into play...where they play and their age...Most position players will prove themselves worthy by league age 22...The top prospects make the jump to AAA in thier league age 21 or 22 seasons and the big's in thier league aged 23 or 24 seasons.

    Players like Bogaerts are the exception to the rule...

    Marreo turns 24 this August in terms of league age the time is now for him. To date Marreo has shown he posses 3 of the 5 tools, defense, arm stregnth and has decent speed...He lacks the two most important of the five tools, which is the ability to hit for average and power. As such, he might well end up playing SS for the Sox, but they're not going to move Bogaerts to make room for a bottom of the order hitter....more likely he ends up as a utility IF or is traded..

    Cecchini turns 23 this spring and is on track to get his cup of coffee this year...end of the day, the kid can flat out hit and has shown that he embodies all of the attributes the Sox look for in a hitter but to date has not blossomed into a power bat many scouts think he has the potential to be...His defense still needs work but in fairness he still learning to play 3B. I would not be surprised to see him in Fenway before September. 

    So I see both having value....Cecchini is the guy that has the best chance to make an impact...If Middlebrooks struggles for an extended period, it wouldn't surprise me to see Cecchini maning third...

    [/QUOTE]

    Good assessment of Marrero.  He has a high floor because with his defense and speed he should have a very good chance of at least being a utility infielder.  If one of his power or hit tool developed he would be a MLB starter.  From what I gathered from reports over the past year Marrero has good bat speed, but his approach is what needs work. 

    I always try to differentiate between tools and skills among prospects.  Marrero has not done a great job at developing all his skills, but he has good tools.  He has good bat speed, good hand to eye coordination and quick hands.  He has the tools to develop the skills.  With Bogaerts and Pedroia presumably manning up the middle at Fenway there is no need to rush Marrero.

    But if Bogaerts fills out, and Marrero relaxes at the plate and develops a decent enough approach to put up an OPS north of .730 then he's a starter somewhere.  It's time to close the book on him yet, but he has done very little raise his prospect status. 

     
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