A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    his biggest obstacle is the PED whispers

     

    [/QUOTE]

    THIS.  because of the 2003 report and it being unknown exactly what he is rumored to have failed for...he will never get in.  i believe the rumorsare enough for the writers to keep him out.

     

    my personal feelings are that Mr. Ortiz is a HOFer.  but i am a Sox fan and have been paying attention for the last oh 10 or 11 seasons......and some of his heroic exploits are the stuff of Hollywood.....

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said they weren't

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to mef429's comment:

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.




     

    Go tell that to Mr Piazza, who's PED rumors were far less tangible.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    his biggest obstacle is the PED whispers

     

    [/QUOTE]

    THIS.  because of the 2003 report and it being unknown exactly what he is rumored to have failed for...he will never get in.  i believe the rumorsare enough for the writers to keep him out.

     

    my personal feelings are that Mr. Ortiz is a HOFer.  but i am a Sox fan and have been paying attention for the last oh 10 or 11 seasons......and some of his heroic exploits are the stuff of Hollywood.....

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said they weren't

    [/QUOTE]


    i'm not sure what you mean.  i never said you did.  i was agreeing with what you posted.  just expanding on it.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to BoSoxChuck's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup. Big Papis character and sportsmanship were on display when he took a bat to a dugout phone and almost injured a player. Its on display every time he sulks at contract time.  He's a great DH for the Sox but he is a one dimensional player and one dimensional players don't make it to the HOF unless they are a pitcher.

    [/QUOTE]

    What a load of ...

    The "almost injured a players" attitude is ... wow, so overblown. Beyond that -- by your analysis, there must be few, if any, athletes who have character because even the  most mild-mannered athlete has lost his temper. Yaz pulled a temper trantrum once -- probably more than once -- because of a bad call. Guess he has no character.

    Attitudes like your have to be among the most ridiculous on this board. An athlete isn't perfect, so you cherry-pick a rare example as a huge brush to paint the player as having no character. Pathetic.

    And sulking because at contract time? Really? If he sulked, he wouldn't produce like he has. If he sulked, he wouldn't talk and he'd be moody and irritable. All that Ortiz does is be honest. It's easy fodder for a story when a star athlete is on the last year of a contract so of course reporters are going to ask him about it. And Ortiz is honest about his feelings and his insecurities are exposed in such situations.

    But according to you and Bill, I guess the fact Ortiz isn't perfect and has human foibles make him a guy with no character and no sportsmanship. All the many other good things he has done in his career mean nothing. You found a flaw or two in the guy so that gives license to ignore everything else.

     

    As for the Hall -- there are no one-dimensional players in the Hall? Really. You might want to go look at the list of players in the Hall. As I stated earlier, right now I don't think Ortiz should be in the Hall. But if he players three more years or so, let's see what his numbers look like then.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    If Otiz can come close to his 2013 production for another two years he has a good chance of getting into the Hall of Fame.   Without another very good couple of years I do not think that he has much of a chance.

    Of course, helping to win another World Series would help him immensely.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BoSoxChuck's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup. Big Papis character and sportsmanship were on display when he took a bat to a dugout phone and almost injured a player. Its on display every time he sulks at contract time.  He's a great DH for the Sox but he is a one dimensional player and one dimensional players don't make it to the HOF unless they are a pitcher.

    [/QUOTE]WOW.......  Do you know that you have just spoken out/up to the "PAPI DOZEN" on this board that thinks that PAPI can do no wrong and is a better ball player than anyone else that have ever graced the diamond !!!!  WOW, I salute your strength under the fact that you will be DEMONIZED for going against (with opinion) the great baseball Gods on this board !!!!


    [/QUOTE]

    You're one to talk about demonizing someone.

    Do you really believe the garbage you right? A person isn't the sum of their worst traits, but you're too bitter to realize this. You've made it your agenda to bash Ortiz for any flimsy reason, real or imagined and most of the time imagined, then paint the guy based on mistakes he made.

    Those of us with brains realize that an athlete is just like the rest of us -- a person with human foibles who make mistakes. So we look at the sum of a person, for how much we can know an athlete by interviews and other news reports, and balance the good with the bad. Ortiz surely isn't perfect. But he surely isn't anything near the way you want to portray him.

    Yes, Ortiz's name was on the 2003 report. We don't know what it was, and it very easily could have been something in an over-the-counter supplement he got in the DR. So anyone who simply dismisses the notion that Ortiz might have done something purposely or accidentally is being incredibly naive, especially from what we've seen with athletes in many sports over the past two decades.

    But playing judge and jury and convicting Ortiz into perpetuity based on that one incomplete report and ignoring all the other tests he passed, including the more extreme World Baseball tests, and ignoring that he has never been linked to anything else is hardly being enlightened. Your head is as deeply in the sand as the other group.

    The fact is we don't know for sure either way. So it's not wrong togive the guy the benefit of the doubt, while keeping an open mind.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    Is Mariano Rivera a Hall of Famer? If he and other great closers, whose job is to record three outs (usually) in something less than half the games their team will play in any given season, warrant HOF consideration, then I can't see why designated hitters shouldn't.  

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    his biggest obstacle is the PED whispers

     



    THIS.  because of the 2003 report and it being unknown exactly what he is rumored to have failed for...he will never get in.  i believe the rumorsare enough for the writers to keep him out.

     

    my personal feelings are that Mr. Ortiz is a HOFer.  but i am a Sox fan and have been paying attention for the last oh 10 or 11 seasons......and some of his heroic exploits are the stuff of Hollywood.....

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said they weren't

    [/QUOTE]


    i'm not sure what you mean.  i never said you did.  i was agreeing with what you posted.  just expanding on it.

    [/QUOTE]


    My earlier post extolled the same virtues you posted; that's all. I guess you could say I ovelooked you expanding on it. No doubt the same page.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Go tell that to Mr Piazza, who's PED rumors were far less tangible.

    [/QUOTE]

    hasn't he only been on the ballot for 1 year though? not sure he is first year induction material -ped rumors aside-

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    How bout a player who has the same amount of top 20 vote MVP seasons[6], more homers in the post season then Papi[22 vs. 17], more titles with 4 and put up a 858 career OPS and 850 playoff OPS playing CF? Careeer steals of 147. Four gold gloves. More then 300 more hits then Papi. Hall of Famer? He failed to even get the votes to stay on the ballot last season even though steroids have never been mentioned with Bernie Williams.

    If its simply about power, Jim Thome has 181 more homers then Papi. Delgado and McGriff have a lot more homers then Papi.  

    If its about single season greatness, Papi has zero MVP's and Dale Murphy has 2. Don Mattingly has an MVP and a 2nd place finish. Murphy failed to get in and Mattingly probably won't either.  

    Its not easy to get into the HOF. Papi doesn't belong quite yet. It isn't that DH makes you disqualified. But it definately should be a major negative. As should a lack of career totals. As should a lack of all round game. As should a lack of seasonal greatness. If not for the post season numbers, he wouldn't even be a reasonable candidate at this stage.  

    If Papi retired tommorow he would not get in and shouldn't.    

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How bout a player who has the same amount of top 20 vote MVP seasons[6], more homers in the post season then Papi[22 vs. 17], more titles with 4 and put up a 858 career OPS and 850 playoff OPS playing CF? Careeer steals of 147. Four gold gloves. More then 300 more hits then Papi. Hall of Famer? He failed to even get the votes to stay on the ballot last season even though steroids have never been mentioned with Bernie Williams.

    If its simply about power, Jim Thome has 181 more homers then Papi. Delgado and McGriff have a lot more homers then Papi.  

    If its about single season greatness, Papi has zero MVP's and Dale Murphy has 2. Don Mattingly has an MVP and a 2nd place finish. Murphy failed to get in and Mattingly probably won't either.  

    Its not easy to get into the HOF. Papi doesn't belong quite yet. It isn't that DH makes you disqualified. But it definately should be a major negative. As should a lack of career totals. As should a lack of all round game. As should a lack of seasonal greatness. If not for the post season numbers, he wouldn't even be a reasonable candidate at this stage.  

    If Papi retired tommorow he would not get in and shouldn't.    

    [/QUOTE]

    Good points. My take on the players you mentioned.

    Williams' defense puts that in play but you still need to look at batting numbers. Postseason numbers are important but only IMHO as the last bit that could push a guy over the top. Williams is just another player whose career numbers aren't enough to make him a no-brainer, even with the postseason. He has the one batting title but never led the league in homers or RBIs, although he was often a middle-of-the-order bat. Although he had a number of very good to elite seasons, he simply falls in line with many similar players -- All-Stars who had some great years but could not quite put together enough career numbers.

    There's not one factor that should be used. Very good to elite individual seasons is key but longevity is also important. And it should. The longevity is what seperates many similar players like the three you mentioned.

    Yes Mattingly has won a batting title and led the league in RBIs once, but he had just five seasons that could be considered elite years and just three more full seasons that could be rated very good. So that's just eight very good to elite seasons of a 14-year career. I don't know how you'd classify a 9 HR, 68 RBI, .288 BA in 152 G year -- an OK year or decent year.

    Had he played six more years with just decent numbers -- 150 hits, 12 HR, 80 RBI, he would have had just over 3,000 hits, nearly 1,600 RBIs and close to 300 HRs. That could have pushed him over the top.

    Murphy had five elite years and another eight good to very good years, and that almost was good enough. The fact that his other eight years were poor -- or just not playing enough in his first two years of big league experience -- drags down his career numbers and make him a borderline candidate.

    Ortiz is right in line with these guys. He has eight very good to elite seasons and five OK to good seasons (small range). So that's in line with many other players. Now the task for him is to have at least three more good to very good or better seasons that will push his career numbers over the top and makes him a stronger candidate, especially when you add postseason.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Go tell that to Mr Piazza, who's PED rumors were far less tangible.

    [/QUOTE]

    hasn't he only been on the ballot for 1 year though? not sure he is first year induction material -ped rumors aside-

    [/QUOTE]

    Correct; but if it wasn't for the speculation, and since Josh Gibson aside he was inarguably the greatest offensive catcher ever, it's likely he was a shoo-in.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Go tell that to Mr Piazza, who's PED rumors were far less tangible.

    [/QUOTE]

    hasn't he only been on the ballot for 1 year though? not sure he is first year induction material -ped rumors aside-

    [/QUOTE]

    Correct; but if it wasn't for the speculation, and since Josh Gibson aside he was inarguably the greatest offensive catcher ever, it's likely he was a shoo-in.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not comparing numbers or even saying they're better, but I'd take Johnnie Bench or Yogi Berra over Piazza.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    He is perhaps the greatest postseason hitter in MLB history. I think the combination of that with regular season is enough to put him in the HOF. Edgar should be in as well. Ortiz to me doesn't have to prove anything anymore. I didn't think he would perform at the level he was doing during the Manny Years post-Manny, and instead he has performed at amazing levels with pressure to perform. Ortiz gets my vote. So does Dwight Evans and Darrell Evans.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Go tell that to Mr Piazza, who's PED rumors were far less tangible.

    [/QUOTE]

    hasn't he only been on the ballot for 1 year though? not sure he is first year induction material -ped rumors aside-

    [/QUOTE]

    Correct; but if it wasn't for the speculation, and since Josh Gibson aside he was inarguably the greatest offensive catcher ever, it's likely he was a shoo-in.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not comparing numbers or even saying they're better, but I'd take Johnnie Bench or Yogi Berra over Piazza.

    [/QUOTE]

    Overall, yes; but I always thought Berra wasa little overrated. Having an unprecedented double digit rings as a player is nothing to sneeze at, however.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to BoSoxChuck's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup. Big Papis character and sportsmanship were on display when he took a bat to a dugout phone and almost injured a player. Its on display every time he sulks at contract time.  He's a great DH for the Sox but he is a one dimensional player and one dimensional players don't make it to the HOF unless they are a pitcher.

    [/QUOTE]

    This has got to be Softy.....however...

    While I'm a big fan of David Ortiz, I don't think he's even close to the HOF.   Is there anyone outside of Boston and/or not a Sox fan that thinks he's got a strong case?  If so, name names. 

    Numbers?:

    Black Ink Batting -  16 (143),  Average HOFer ≈ 27 Gray Ink Batting -  114 (180),  Average HOFer ≈ 144 Hall of Fame Monitor Batting -  132 (104),  Likely HOFer ≈ 100 Hall of Fame Standards Batting -  44 (123),  Average HOFer ≈ 50 JAWS
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course the Billiot is bigot, it's blinding obvious.  While he claims to be "demonised" here, the fact is he gets a fairly free ride re bigotry....because he writes so much nonsense his demonising, ignorant, judgemental BS gets lost in the ether.

    Ho ho ho, his comments about Mexico and Mexicans are just part of his "humour".....his persistent references to David Ortiz' age as "38-43" is obviously an assumption that all DRs are lying hounds.  Ad malum.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

     

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yup. Big Papis character and sportsmanship were on display when he took a bat to a dugout phone and almost injured a player. Its on display every time he sulks at contract time.  He's a great DH for the Sox but he is a one dimensional player and one dimensional players don't make it to the HOF unless they are a pitcher.

    [/QUOTE]WOW.......  Do you know that you have just spoken out/up to the "PAPI DOZEN" on this board that thinks that PAPI can do no wrong and is a better ball player than anyone else that have ever graced the diamond !!!!  WOW, I salute your strength under the fact that you will be DEMONIZED for going against (with opinion) the great baseball Gods on this board !!!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Thank ye kind sir. I speak only the truth as it is. Gotta look at these things like a man not some starry eyed teenager with a crush. I llike Papi much as the next guy but he is what he is and he ain't no HOF'er

    [/QUOTE]

    "I speak only the truth as it is."

    Me too! And Jim Jones!  And the other Jim Jones! And Tony B. Liar!  And the Easter Bunny!  And Madam Blavatsky!  And, wait for it, Eureka!, Archimedes too!  

    Apols if I'm wordsmithing you....but IMO no intelligent person would ever tell you about "the truth as it is".....I'm fine with "the truth as I see it".....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from terminator-x. Show terminator-x's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    Oritz got into the HOF this year, given his performance in the playoffs. He is perceived as having carried his team to titles in 2004 and 2013. His OPS in the playoffs exceeds his regular season OPS, so he is rightfully perceived as performing at his best, against the best, when it matters the most. That's excellence. I'd compare him to other clutch "leader" types like Willie Stargell and Tony Perez.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    bill is a racist. his posts -current and past- are proof enough.

     

    on to the point of the thread.... i am extremely surprised no one has mentioned the actual criteria of getting into the hall aside from numbers on the field. "character, integrity and sportsmanship". three things that David "big papi" Ortiz embodies. He is one of the more beloved players among his peers in all of baseball. no matter where the sox play or who the sox play, there are multiple members of the opposing team coming out to greet papi and recieve a big hug. he gives back to the community of Boston as well as his homeland and the Roberto clemente award he received proves that (to say nothing of the efforts by him and the rest of the team in the aftermath of marathon monday). The weight of this criteria is up for debate but they ARE taken into account. that is an undeniable fact after the last round of voting.

    onto the numbers.... if he retired today, his regular season numbers would be borderline HoF worthy. if you include PS numbers as well as his 3 rings and title of DH GOAT i think he makes it.

    if he plays for another 2-3 years with decent-solid production then that only further solidifies his place in the HoF. i do not think the PED rumors (i hesitate to even call them "rumors" because there was only one whisper of it that was extremely vague. A tweet from "the Onion" has more validity than the claim that papi was on PEDs.) will affect him for the reasons stated above.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Go tell that to Mr Piazza, who's PED rumors were far less tangible.

    [/QUOTE]

    hasn't he only been on the ballot for 1 year though? not sure he is first year induction material -ped rumors aside-

    [/QUOTE]

    Correct; but if it wasn't for the speculation, and since Josh Gibson aside he was inarguably the greatest offensive catcher ever, it's likely he was a shoo-in.

    [/QUOTE]


    Not comparing numbers or even saying they're better, but I'd take Johnnie Bench or Yogi Berra over Piazza.

    [/QUOTE]

    Overall, yes; but I always thought Berra wasa little overrated. Having an unprecedented double digit rings as a player is nothing to sneeze at, however.

    [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps but anyone called Yogi gets extra points. I always thought "Yogi Berra" was the coolest name.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    [/QUOTE]WOW.......  Do you know that you have just spoken out/up to the "PAPI DOZEN" on this board that thinks that PAPI can do no wrong and is a better ball player than anyone else that have ever graced the diamond !!!!  WOW, I salute your strength under the fact that you will be DEMONIZED for going against (with opinion) the great baseball Gods on this board !!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Bill, 

    I've had enough of you. You sound like a total Jackazz anymore. Nobody has said that Ortiz can do no wrong, you're the dope that draws that conclusion. And no one has said that he's a better player than anyone else, etc. Again you take things and draw your own idiotic conclusions. I for one gave you some slack for a bit but your back to your former stupidity so I've no choice but to put you on ignore again, permanantly. I've much better things to do than read your lunacy including the idiocy you write about Jenny.

    Goodbye you fool,

    Hetch 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]WOW.......  Do you know that you have just spoken out/up to the "PAPI DOZEN" on this board that thinks that PAPI can do no wrong and is a better ball player than anyone else that have ever graced the diamond !!!!  WOW, I salute your strength under the fact that you will be DEMONIZED for going against (with opinion) the great baseball Gods on this board !!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Bill, 

    I've had enough of you. You sound like a total Jackazz anymore. Nobody has said that Ortiz can do no wrong, you're the dope that draws that conclusion. And no one has said that he's a better player than anyone else, etc. Again you take things and draw your own idiotic conclusions. I for one gave you some slack for a bit but your back to your former stupidity so I've no choice but to put you on ignore again, permanantly. I've much better things to do than read your lunacy including the idiocy you write about Jenny.

    Goodbye you fool,

    Hetch 

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't blame you.

    Every time I want to try to give him the benefit of the doubt and cut him some slack, he gets worse and worse.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF

    In response to BMav's comment:

     

    How bout a player who has the same amount of top 20 vote MVP seasons[6], more homers in the post season then Papi[22 vs. 17], more titles with 4 and put up a 858 career OPS and 850 playoff OPS playing CF? Careeer steals of 147. Four gold gloves. More then 300 more hits then Papi. Hall of Famer? He failed to even get the votes to stay on the ballot last season even though steroids have never been mentioned with Bernie Williams.

    If its simply about power, Jim Thome has 181 more homers then Papi. Delgado and McGriff have a lot more homers then Papi.  

    If its about single season greatness, Papi has zero MVP's and Dale Murphy has 2. Don Mattingly has an MVP and a 2nd place finish. Murphy failed to get in and Mattingly probably won't either.  

    Its not easy to get into the HOF. Papi doesn't belong quite yet. It isn't that DH makes you disqualified. But it definately should be a major negative. As should a lack of career totals. As should a lack of all round game. As should a lack of seasonal greatness. If not for the post season numbers, he wouldn't even be a reasonable candidate at this stage.  

    If Papi retired tommorow he would not get in and shouldn't.    

     




    I have to quibble a little with that part...his four-year peak from 04-07 was a pretty darned high one (1.057 OPS, an averageof 44 HR and 127 RBI, leading the league in HR once and RBI twice, and of course 2 rings for good measure). I wonder if he would not have won an MVP or two during that time period if he played first base instead of DH, but placing in the top 5 for five straight seasons (03-07) is incredibly impressive; that shows not just excellence but consistent excellence over an extended period, and it's a feat matched by no other player during that time (in which Pujols placed in the top 5 four times, A-Rod and Vlad Guerrero three). I think it's wrong to compare that to Bernie, who had a bunch of top 20 finishes, yes, but never higher than 7th.

     

    But I may be just splitting hairs...on the whole, I agree with you that Papi probably isn't a HOF, at least not yet. Great posts by you, Roy, and others here.

     
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