Re: A case for David Ortiz to the HOF
posted at 12/29/2013 1:42 PM EST
In response to mef429's comment:
In response to Bill-806's comment:
In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
Not speaking for Chuck..... But I will give you my read on the D H & the HOF....... The only one we are talking about to date is our own "BIG PAPI".... That said, his #'s are good(pretty/very good) and he has been a force on 3 RED SOX W S champs (been a Sox since 2003-2013+) and that is what our hearts & minds will remember..... Add to it, his longevity in a SOX unie and we are all counting the 5 years after he retires to "walk thru the door" of the HALL
What I find amazing is that I've asked Chuck for an explanation of his point of view twice now and have yet to receive a reply. So either Chuck has no basis for his argument or he doesn't care to reply. Either way here it goes for a third time to Chuck if he cares to reply.
If you define a pitcher, starter as well as reliever as a part time player and it seems you believe they can make the HOF, why cannot a DH, a definitive position as of I believe 1970, which again by your definition is also a part time player why cannot a DH make the HOF. I'd love to hear a clear and concise explanation, please.
..... Fast forward to today, and I think that we are hard pressed to throw any other names into this conversation. Add again, the movement by management away from a 1 full time player (@big $$$$) for that position...... John Farrell, if the truth be told, would use 2 to 3 players at that spot if & when Papi retires........ Thats how I see it, & I stand by it !!!
there is no way of knowing this as it is a product of availability. teams that currently use multiple DHs are doing so because they either don't have a big bopper without a position to play or one in the minors being blocked. The sox on the other hand are in a different situation entirely. if papi retired today, we have a couple full time DH options available to us and even more (middlebrooks) if we signed Drew. Although none who would be as productive as papi (goes without saying)
as for your assertation that paying "BIG $$$$$$$$" to a single full time DH is bad business refer to the last post on the previous page. the DH GOAT is only making 15M per year. That is a steal for one of the best hitters in the league over the past 3+ seasons. If he was a 1Bman (which is entirely in the realm of possibility) he would be making anywhere from 20-25M per year.
yeah, when papi retires they might platoon @DH but that doesn't mean FT DHs are dead. lots of positions are platooned but that doesn't mean full time players at that position no longer exist. the sox currently platoon LF but that doesn't mean they will never have another FT LF'er again.... it's just a product of availability.
To add to your point. It's laughable when someone claims that managers would rather use two or three players as DH to give them "flexibility" in the lineup rather than a bat like Ortiz's. You're right -- it's about availability.
If Ortiz was 30 after the end of last season and hit the free agent market, there would be plenty of teams lining up to sign him. Managers aren't idiots. They'd rather have a guy with a .950-plus OPS hitting 30-plus home runs -- a middle of the order bat -- rather than a bunch of scrubs.
Let's say Ortiz was gone. Bill can't be that stupid and think that the Farrell would rather platoon Carp-Nava-Gomes in at DH and LF, rather than sticking with Ortiz at DH and platooning the other guys in LF.
That there aren't more full-time DHs is because there aren't a lot of guys out there like Ortiz. If managers would rather platoon a bunch of guys at that position, why has Kansas City's Bobby Butler played so many games at DH the last three years.
After playing mostly 1B (145 and 127 games) his first two full seasons in the majors, his last three years have been:
Age 25: DH-142 G, 1B-11 G.
Age 26: DH-138 G, 1B-20 G.
Age 27: DH-150 G, 1B-7 G.
So he seems to becoming a career DH.
That the DH is used by multiple players on many teams has more to do with simply not having enough good players or having to move guys around because of injury, rather than simply not wanting a big bat like Ortiz (or Butler or Martinez in Detroit) from holding the job full time.