A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    p.s.  Please save the Saber Metrics!  As good as they might be, they don't mean squat for a SS playing for Boston!  It would absolutely ruin any shot this kid might have in the bigs!




    i think the boston media has actully helped more than hindered him. i generally hear them talking about his amazing glove moreso than his nonexistent bat.. which is good for a fielding SS. now, if he continues to hit.118 at the big league level then that can change pretty fast but actually the media has been pretty well tempered with him.

    your right though, at the very least he needs another half season in AAA to season more before you throw him to the wolves. i would say another full season but depending on how our SS situation pans out (if they hit poorly) then you can bring him in without fear of losing much offensively but still gain the advantage of his glove. As it stands right now though, he has no business being a starter come 2013

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I seriously doubt a half a season in AAA is going to change much.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I seriously doubt a half a season in AAA is going to change much.



    which is why i said "at least a half season in AAA" if i had to bet on it i would say a full year in AAA without any injuries and continual production/progression before he was ready. If he comes into ST swinging well and continues that in AAA i could make a case for half a season (especially in regard to trade bait) but as i said earlier, its unlikely.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I seriously doubt a half a season in AAA is going to change much.



    which is why i said "at least a half season in AAA" if i had to bet on it i would say a full year in AAA without any injuries and continual production/progression before he was ready. If he comes into ST swinging well and continues that in AAA i could make a case for half a season (especially in regard to trade bait) but as i said earlier, its unlikely.

     



    My guess is he will be the opening day SS, even if he doesn't hit that well in ST.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I seriously doubt a half a season in AAA is going to change much.



    which is why i said "at least a half season in AAA" if i had to bet on it i would say a full year in AAA without any injuries and continual production/progression before he was ready. If he comes into ST swinging well and continues that in AAA i could make a case for half a season (especially in regard to trade bait) but as i said earlier, its unlikely.

     



    My guess is he will be the opening day SS, even if he doesn't hit that well in ST.




    my reaction to that will depend on how potent our offense seems when all is said and done. but even if our offense looked top notch i still wouldn't like the idea of having an outo-out at the back end of the lineup. i would be more confident with a pitcher at the plate than i would with iggy at the plate with how he looks now

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I seriously doubt a half a season in AAA is going to change much.



    which is why i said "at least a half season in AAA" if i had to bet on it i would say a full year in AAA without any injuries and continual production/progression before he was ready. If he comes into ST swinging well and continues that in AAA i could make a case for half a season (especially in regard to trade bait) but as i said earlier, its unlikely.

     



    My guess is he will be the opening day SS, even if he doesn't hit that well in ST.




    Now that's a peachy thought!  Ciriaco made a clear and convincing case for the job last year, but many would like to continue the perseverant thinking / day dreaming about the mirage SS known as Iggy.  Dispite the FACT that he can't hit the broad side of a barn!!!  Hitting doesn't matter for a SS in Boston???  SERIOUSLY!   If you've been a fan of the Red Sox for longer than 5 years, you know very well just how important hitting is in this market.  Sure!  We all appreciate his overhyped defensive game, which is quite good, but if the kid can't hit, on a struggling team it's all over.  He will be pummled in this media market.  Boston will chew him up & spit him out!!!

    My hope is that Ben C. knows this very well, & won't make that foolish mistake.  FOOLISH it surely would be.  SAVE THE STATS PLEASE!  To argue the case for the prospect of Iggy hitting his way out of a paper bag is fools play.  Just stop while you're behind!  Your stats mean nothing!  Boston fans know what they can see with their own eyes, & won't be swayed with obsture stats!  SAVE IT! 

    Ciriaco will be our starting SS unless we make a big move, which isn't likely!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    My guess is he will be the opening day SS, even if he doesn't hit that well in ST.

    [/QUOTE]


    Now that's a peachy thought!  Ciriaco made a clear and convincing case for the job last year, but many would like to continue the perseverant thinking / day dreaming about the mirage SS known as Iggy. 

     

    Clear and convincing? Did you bother to watch his play in September or notice his 3000+ PA minor league OBP was .299?

     

    Dispite the FACT that he can't hit the broad side of a barn!!!  Hitting doesn't matter for a SS in Boston??? 

     

    I guess you don't care about his sub .300 OBP in over 3,000 PAs, instead, you fell for the mirage of a few dozen PAs earlier this year.

    SERIOUSLY!  

     

    Yes, seriously!  Thinking Ciriaco has clearly earned the FT SS job is a bigger joke than those of us who feel a fantastic fielding SS is the best option for a bridge season. Besides, Ciriaco will be the utility guy and have plenty of opportunity to oust Iggy from the job.

     

    If you've been a fan of the Red Sox for longer than 5 years, you know very well just how important hitting is in this market.  Sure!  We all appreciate his overhyped defensive game, which is quite good, but if the kid can't hit, on a struggling team it's all over.  He will be pummled in this media market.  Boston will chew him up & spit him out!!!

    Yes, SF just proved how important hitting is to winning a ring.

     

    My hope is that Ben C. knows this very well, & won't make that foolish mistake.  FOOLISH it surely would be.  SAVE THE STATS PLEASE!  To argue the case for the prospect of Iggy hitting his way out of a paper bag is fools play.  Just stop while you're behind!  Your stats mean nothing!  Boston fans know what they can see with their own eyes, & won't be swayed with obsture stats!  SAVE IT! 

    Iggy hitting .220 is better than most ML SSs hitting .250--.275.

    Ciriaco will be our starting SS unless we make a big move, which isn't likely!

    Wanna bet? I'll give 2:1 odds Ciriaco does not start most of our games at SS unless Iggy gets hurt. (If we trade for a SS, all bets are off.)

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Bump to leapfrog the softy front page invasion.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    p.s.  Please save the Saber Metrics!  As good as they might be, they don't mean squat for a SS playing for Boston!  It would absolutely ruin any shot this kid might have in the bigs!




    i think the boston media has actully helped more than hindered him. i generally hear them talking about his amazing glove moreso than his nonexistent bat.. which is good for a fielding SS. now, if he continues to hit.118 at the big league level then that can change pretty fast but actually the media has been pretty well tempered with him.

    your right though, at the very least he needs another half season in AAA to season more before you throw him to the wolves. i would say another full season but depending on how our SS situation pans out (if they hit poorly) then you can bring him in without fear of losing much offensively but still gain the advantage of his glove. As it stands right now though, he has no business being a starter come 2013




    Have to disagree with you. Iggy was hitting AAA pitching in August at over a .300 avg. He has adjusted and has hit well at every level, just look at the stats. To base your opinion on a few AB's in September for a 22yr old is hardly fair. Iggy should get a good amount of rope to see if he can adjust to MLB pitching in 2013. With Bogaerts and Marrero waiting in the wings, we need to see what Iggy can do this year...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Have to disagree with you. Iggy was hitting AAA pitching in August at over a .300 avg. He has adjusted and has hit well at every level, just look at the stats. To base your opinion on a few AB's in September for a 22yr old is hardly fair. Iggy should get a good amount of rope to see if he can adjust to MLB pitching in 2013. With Bogaerts and Marrero waiting in the wings, we need to see what Iggy can do this year...

    I agree, and so does Ben...finally.

    Iggy will be the FT SS on opening day.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Have to disagree with you. Iggy was hitting AAA pitching in August at over a .300 avg. He has adjusted and has hit well at every level, just look at the stats. To base your opinion on a few AB's in September for a 22yr old is hardly fair. Iggy should get a good amount of rope to see if he can adjust to MLB pitching in 2013. With Bogaerts and Marrero waiting in the wings, we need to see what Iggy can do this year...

    I agree, and so does Ben...finally.

    Iggy will be the FT SS on opening day.




    I dont agree with some here that think Ciriaco is a FT starting SS...Hes a 27yr old who has never been able to stay on an MLB roster for a reason. Just like Nick Green did well in short stints starting, but once he plays for an extended period of time we realize why he was always a back up, or as some would say, an AAAA player.

    Ciriaco should be used sparingly to fill in for injuries at multiple positions, late inning pinch running, and play against some pitchers he kills...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Some players develop late, but Ciriaco had over 3,000 minor league PAs with an OBP of .299. It's hard to think he will ever sustain better than that in MLB as a FT SS. I love this kid, don't get me wrong; I just think counting on him or saying he has "earned" the SS job. as some have claimed here, is ludicrous.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Iggy simply doesn't deserve to be the everyday SS because he hasn't learned to hit MLB pitching yet. Does he have to be a stud hitter to make the big club? Naw. But he damn well better hit over .225, and at this point that's beyond his capability. He's been told all along his defense will bring him to majors, and that narrative needs to stop. MLB players are expected to perform in all phases of the game at a minimum level, and to excel at their core strengths. He needs to work on his hitting, or consider a career outside of baseball. Period.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to Teakus' comment:

    Iggy simply doesn't deserve to be the everyday SS because he hasn't learned to hit MLB pitching yet. Does he have to be a stud hitter to make the big club? Naw. But he damn well better hit over .225, and at this point that's beyond his capability. He's been told all along his defense will bring him to majors, and that narrative needs to stop. MLB players are expected to perform in all phases of the game at a minimum level, and to excel at their core strengths. He needs to work on his hitting, or consider a career outside of baseball. Period.




    Like I have stated, Iggy has hit at every level after adjusting. He needs that time here to adjust and see if he can at least maintain a 230-40AVG and an OBP north of .300. Theres no way we will know this unless hes given the chance. he was hitting over .300 for the month of Aug. in AAA, so the next obvious step is Boston.

    Marrero and Bogaerts will not be ready anytime before 2014 so we NEED to find out if Iggy can indeed adjust to MLB pitching THIS YEAR. His very small sample size in Sept. is hardly something to base your final judgement on.

    With that said, maybe BC will aquire another SS if a good deal presents itself. I dont think he will, but its a possibility. Ciriaco is NOT the answer.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Teakus' comment:

    Iggy simply doesn't deserve to be the everyday SS because he hasn't learned to hit MLB pitching yet. Does he have to be a stud hitter to make the big club? Naw. But he damn well better hit over .225, and at this point that's beyond his capability. He's been told all along his defense will bring him to majors, and that narrative needs to stop. MLB players are expected to perform in all phases of the game at a minimum level, and to excel at their core strengths. He needs to work on his hitting, or consider a career outside of baseball. Period.




    Like I have stated, Iggy has hit at every level after adjusting. He needs that time here to adjust and see if he can at least maintain a 230-40AVG and an OBP north of .300. Theres no way we will know this unless hes given the chance. he was hitting over .300 for the month of Aug. in AAA, so the next obvious step is Boston.

    Marrero and Bogaerts will not be ready anytime before 2014 so we NEED to find out if Iggy can indeed adjust to MLB pitching THIS YEAR. His very small sample size in Sept. is hardly something to base your final judgement on.

    With that said, maybe BC will aquire another SS if a good deal presents itself. I dont think he will, but its a possibility. Ciriaco is NOT the answer.




    To me, the hiting isn't as important at the SS position to begin with, but for people to totally write off Igg's offense over just 77 PAs is pretty lame.

    "Beyond his capabiltiy" at this point?

    Perhaps, but it is not a certainty.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Teakus' comment:

    Iggy simply doesn't deserve to be the everyday SS because he hasn't learned to hit MLB pitching yet. Does he have to be a stud hitter to make the big club? Naw. But he damn well better hit over .225, and at this point that's beyond his capability. He's been told all along his defense will bring him to majors, and that narrative needs to stop. MLB players are expected to perform in all phases of the game at a minimum level, and to excel at their core strengths. He needs to work on his hitting, or consider a career outside of baseball. Period.




    Like I have stated, Iggy has hit at every level after adjusting. He needs that time here to adjust and see if he can at least maintain a 230-40AVG and an OBP north of .300. Theres no way we will know this unless hes given the chance. he was hitting over .300 for the month of Aug. in AAA, so the next obvious step is Boston.

    Marrero and Bogaerts will not be ready anytime before 2014 so we NEED to find out if Iggy can indeed adjust to MLB pitching THIS YEAR. His very small sample size in Sept. is hardly something to base your final judgement on.

    With that said, maybe BC will aquire another SS if a good deal presents itself. I dont think he will, but its a possibility. Ciriaco is NOT the answer.




    just like you don't think a should base my opinion on 1 poor month in the majors (which is not the case with me. i base my opinion on his poor hitting in the minors & the majors) you should not say because he had 1 good month in august that he comes into ST with the starting job. im looking at who gives us the best chance to win. period. including ALL phases of the game. ciriaco has proved he can hit, plays great defense, speedy on the bases. iggy just has defense on his side. I'm in no way saying ciriaco IS THE ANSWER. but he is the better ballplayer than iggy no doubt and its asanine-ten-eleven to think otherwise.


    at the very least the job should be open in ST. iggy should not be gifted the startng job because of 1 month in the minors where everything clicked.. did he play only 1 month of good baseball in AA before they promoted him to AAA?? no. he showed a consistent and sustained improvment before he was pushed on. so lets do the same before we have him in a position to affect the club. clearly he was overmatched in the majors. small sample size or not that is the truth. and aside from that month of august has he given any other indication that he can hit AAA pitching? no. so he should start the year at AAA. if throughout the first 3 months he hits at an acceptable level then bring him in. If we're going to contend this year we need to come out of the gate strong and carrying a AAA player who is still trying to adjust to AAA let alone MLB pitching is the last thing we need/want.

    i reserve the right to rescind these comments pending 2013 becomes a bridge year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    ...I reserve the right to rescind these comments pending 2013 becomes a bridge year.

     

    Consider them rescinded.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    It should be understood that nobody wants Iggy or anyone else to fail, especially just to win an argument on a message board. I want very much for him to be a stud. But wishful thinking is for children, and talent must be reviewed under the cold light of reason. Not everyone can make it to the MLB level, and this is especially true on a top 7 franchise. There is a solid steel curtain separating the men from the boys, and it's his job to find a way around it. He may well learn to hit MLB pitching, but there's certainly grave reason for doubt at this point. Some people can handle AAA but never MLB...because it's a HUGE jump. Kalish may well be such a man....and he's considered by many to be a lock. I have my doubts but time will tell. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to Teakus' comment:

    It should be understood that nobody wants Iggy or anyone else to fail, especially just to win an argument on a message board. I want very much for him to be a stud. But wishful thinking is for children, and talent must be reviewed under the cold light of reason. Not everyone can make it to the MLB level, and this is especially true on a top 7 franchise. There is a solid steel curtain separating the men from the boys, and it's his job to find a way around it. He may well learn to hit MLB pitching, but there's certainly grave reason for doubt at this point. Some people can handle AAA but never MLB...because it's a HUGE jump. Kalish may well be such a man....and he's considered by many to be a lock. I have my doubts but time will tell. 




    Fair enough. There's still a lot of uncertainty with both Iggy and Kalish. Their ML sample sizes are rather small to really know much at all for sure.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Great defensive player but can the sox afford such a weak bat? Their lineup doesn't exactly scare anyone.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to sporter81's comment:

    Great defensive player but can the sox afford such a weak bat? Their lineup doesn't exactly scare anyone.



    Do you have a crystal ball or are you able to time travel?  I'd love to know who will be in the Sox starting line-up in 2013, but I'd settle for the final score of the Chiefs/Chargers game tomorrow night...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Teakus' comment:

    Iggy simply doesn't deserve to be the everyday SS because he hasn't learned to hit MLB pitching yet. Does he have to be a stud hitter to make the big club? Naw. But he damn well better hit over .225, and at this point that's beyond his capability. He's been told all along his defense will bring him to majors, and that narrative needs to stop. MLB players are expected to perform in all phases of the game at a minimum level, and to excel at their core strengths. He needs to work on his hitting, or consider a career outside of baseball. Period.




    Like I have stated, Iggy has hit at every level after adjusting. He needs that time here to adjust and see if he can at least maintain a 230-40AVG and an OBP north of .300. Theres no way we will know this unless hes given the chance. he was hitting over .300 for the month of Aug. in AAA, so the next obvious step is Boston.

    Marrero and Bogaerts will not be ready anytime before 2014 so we NEED to find out if Iggy can indeed adjust to MLB pitching THIS YEAR. His very small sample size in Sept. is hardly something to base your final judgement on.

    With that said, maybe BC will aquire another SS if a good deal presents itself. I dont think he will, but its a possibility. Ciriaco is NOT the answer.




    just like you don't think a should base my opinion on 1 poor month in the majors (which is not the case with me. i base my opinion on his poor hitting in the minors & the majors) you should not say because he had 1 good month in august that he comes into ST with the starting job. im looking at who gives us the best chance to win. period. including ALL phases of the game. ciriaco has proved he can hit, plays great defense, speedy on the bases. iggy just has defense on his side. I'm in no way saying ciriaco IS THE ANSWER. but he is the better ballplayer than iggy no doubt and its asanine-ten-eleven to think otherwise.

    I said he has done well at every level after the adjustments. I pointed out his august numbers in AAA to suggest that maybe he has adjusted there and its time for the final step...Boston. Id rather see if my 22yr old prospect can cut it rather than a guy (Ciriaco) who has has many chances to already and has failed. 


    at the very least the job should be open in ST. iggy should not be gifted the startng job because of 1 month in the minors where everything clicked.. did he play only 1 month of good baseball in AA before they promoted him to AAA?? no. he showed a consistent and sustained improvment before he was pushed on. so lets do the same before we have him in a position to affect the club. clearly he was overmatched in the majors. small sample size or not that is the truth. and aside from that month of august has he given any other indication that he can hit AAA pitching? no. so he should start the year at AAA. if throughout the first 3 months he hits at an acceptable level then bring him in. If we're going to contend this year we need to come out of the gate strong and carrying a AAA player who is still trying to adjust to AAA let alone MLB pitching is the last thing we need/want.

    The difference being is we had plenty of SS help with Scutaro, Aviles etc... We have Ciriaco now. Thats it! Its to the point to where we need to see if the 8mm investment on this kid can pay off. Bogaerts and Marrero could both be ready by 2014, with Bogaerts having the better chance of the 2. We need to see what Iggy can do this year so we know how to handle Bogy, ie; positions change or remain at SS. If Iggy can start hitting at a respectable rate, then we will need to give Bogaerts time to adjust to a new position. Most likely a corner OF spot with WMB at 3b. probably LF.

    i reserve the right to rescind these comments pending 2013 becomes a bridge year.

    haha...I believe we all have that right mef :)




     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Great defensive player but can the sox afford such a weak bat? Their lineup doesn't exactly scare anyone.

    Does our defense scare anybody?

    Is a .270 SS instead of a .220 SS going to lead our offense to the top or even improve it much?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    bump

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Read a couple good articles on Xander Bogaerts today...Seems a few other teams scouts who have watched him play more than a couple times all have pretty much the same opinion.

    Thry, like me, say he should remain at SS for the time being. Xander should start the year in AA and get more then 23 games under his belt, work more on his defense and learn to hit the off speed stuff a little better. 21/1 K/BB in those 23 games tells me he still needs some more time to adjust to the advanced pitching.

    I think he could get a cup of coffee this year if the ball rolls a certain way, but 2014 is more realistic and probably better for his development.

     
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