A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Laughable at best.

     

    The days of .220 hitting mark belanger type SS are long gone no matter what moon would like you to believe.

    1) I'd love to have a great fielding SS who could hit. Find us one and you're my hero.

    2) BAs of some playoff teams SS position this year:

    Oakland .213

    Atlanta   .230

    Cincy     .237

    Balt       .238

    Det        .239

     

    Long gone my A%^!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Laughable at best.

     

    The days of .220 hitting mark belanger type SS are long gone no matter what moon would like you to believe.

    1) I'd love to have a great fielding SS who could hit. Find us one and you're my hero.

    2) BAs of some playoff teams SS position this year:

    Oakland .213

    Atlanta   .230

    Cincy     .237

    Balt       .238

    Det        .239

     

    Long gone my A%^!

    [/QUOTE]

    You keep bringing up Oakland. This why Oakland got Drew, because they were not happy with their ss play, Drew hit 250 for oakland and is a .265 career hitter.

    It doesn't make sense to bring that up constantly to show how Offense isn't important for a SS, when Oakland obviously made the trade because they were not happy with the production from that position.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to BaronVonSteingrabber's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    1) I'd love to have a great fielding SS who could hit. Find us one and you're my hero.

    2) BAs of some playoff teams SS position this year:

    Oakland .213

    Atlanta   .230

    Cincy     .237

    Balt       .238

    Det        .239

     

    Long gone my A%^!




    And how many rings do they have?

    Not to mention iggy has not given any indication of even being able to hit .220 at the major league level.

    [/QUOTE]


    This thread is getting as tedious and boring as the ridiculous one about the 2012 Red Sox not being that bad.  Iglesias cannot hit PERIOD!!!!!  You can't carry a dud who can't even come close to reaching the Mendoza Line at the plate, and those of you who follow the game carefully, ever notice that it always seems a real weak hitter is at the plate late in the game with the contest on the line.   Then you either have to pinch hit for the guy and take a good glove out of the lineup or let him bad and most likely kill the rally.  Keep Boegarts at short, hope he has a banner 2013 in Triple A and  then put him at shortstop and keep him there.  We can get a SS for one year to hold down the fort so long as it isn't someone who is as inept as Iggy is with a piece of wood in his hand.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    The following is from http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8484915/jose-iglesias-test-how-boston-red-sox-value-defense Yes It is a small sample size but apparently it is the worst small sample size in 81 years.

    Iglesias hit .118, striking out in 24 percent of his at-bats.

     

    That's the second-lowest batting average by a nonpitcher in franchise history (minimum 75 plate appearances). You have to go back 81 years to Ed Connolly's .075 average to find the only offensive display that was feebler.

     

    Iglesias hit .031 (1-for-32) with men on base, the lowest average for any nonpitcher over the past 30 years (minimum 30 PA).

     

    Statistically, the most similar hitter to Iglesias last season was Diamondbacks pitcher Trevor Cahill. In fact, if Iglesias were a pitcher, he would have ranked 25th in batting average out of the 49 with at least 50 plate appearances.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to Yonkersman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Lots of posters here who don't like this kid.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't dislike him.  That wasn't an editorial.  But when someone has the lowest BA over 75 plus at bats in 81 years that might be a tad telling.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

     

    Is 75 PAs really a sample size worthy of making definitive judgements?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Is 75 PAs really a sample size worthy of making definitive judgements?

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't infer that I was making any sort of definitive judgement.   But if you feel that way why did you put up this post showing his stats on D?

    It's the exact same sample size that you are now denouncing.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Is 75 PAs really a sample size worthy of making definitive judgements?

    [/QUOTE]

    I didn't infer that I was making any sort of definitive judgement. But if you feel that way why did you put up this post showing his stats on D?

    It's the exact same sample size that you are now denouncing

    I qualified my statement about his 2012 defensive numbers with this:

    "(Warning: UZR/150 is a metric that is supposed to be viewed in 2-3 season sample sizes, so 193 innings is a tiny sample size.)"

     

    I never said I thought Iggy's defense is this overpoweringly good. In fact, after Aviles played better than I expected defensively this season, I admitted that my preseason projections that Iggy could make about a 100 more plays than the average SS and that since I felt Aviles was at best average, Iggy should have been our starting SS, I was wrong.

    I do think Iggy is a fantastic fielding SS with exceptional range that allows him to make many more plays than the average SS.  I don't know if he can hit .220 or .250. He may never reach the point where his great fielding makes up for his poor fielding. I get that. My position is that we will not be contenders in 2013. By the end of 2013 we'll have paid Iggy over $8M to be in our system for 4 years. I feel he needs a longer look than 75 or so PAs. He needs a longer look on defense to see if his exceptional start is for real or a blip.

    I've never made any point about me thinking Iggy will eventually become a decent or "decent enough" hitter. I don't know what he can do on offense going forward. My position has been that if, big emphasis on "if", he is the great fielder he appears to be, we can absord him being somewhat of a poor hitter he appears to be thus far. How much is the issue of contention for most of us. A few here seem to want nothing to do with even an average offensive hitter no matter how good he is defensively. I have mentioned that I think a .220 Iggy could be acceptable (no net loss or gain) if he is indeed a fantastic fielder. Of course offense involves much more than BA, and fielding involves much more than exceptional range, but my point remains the same: I'd give Iggy a shot to show that he can save enough runs on defense to make up for whatever he does on offense. What do we have to lose? Bogaerts may be ready by 2014, and we should know enough by then to evaluate Iggy on a large enough sample size.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I think Iggy should be handed the job next year.  At this point what do they have to lose?  I wasn't in favor of it last year, as he is still quite young and they had what was considered a contending team.

    With that said whatever the size of the sample, if it has been 81 years since another hitter performed as badly that is worth taking note of.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Iggy should be handed the job next year.  At this point what do they have to lose?  I wasn't in favor of it last year, as he is still quite young and they had what was considered a contending team.

    With that said whatever the size of the sample, if it has been 81 years since another hitter performed as badly that is worth taking note of.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well said. He'll get a long enough look in 2013 to get a better idea of his O and D.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Iggy was starting to hit well in August before his call up. He has also ended up hitting pretty good at every level after the adjustments. Hes only 22 and I believe he can be a decent enough hitter given more time.

    I agree with Moon in that he should be given the starting SS job to give him a full year to see if he can indeed hit good enough. This year, although the numbers dont show it, Iggy hit a bunch of hard shots that went right at guys. He alsostarted to show more patience at the plate as well  taking more pitches and being more selective. 2013 should be his make or break year.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    With Aviles headed to Toronto it looks like Jose is our starting SS for next year, so we'll know relatively soon what he's likely to do at the ML level. The good news is that Bogaerts isn't that far away from Boston should the 2012 season be indicative of who Jose really is.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Conventional wisdom is that iglesias will never hit well. Overall, for his career, they are probably right but he is still young and coming up through the minors probably faster than his hitting warrants due to being signed to a mlb contract and his fielding is ready. Ergo, this kid is going to have to learn to hit in the majors.

    It may take a while but I think his hitting fundementals are fine. Nice short stroke and he probably can learn to take the ball to RF much better over time. He could well put up decent offensive numbers some years, as many SS have been streaky offensively.

    I'm observing from afar but this kid seems to have a joy for the game and tremendous intangibles. I think he is a winner long term if we hang in there with him. No doubt that Bogaerts will be a factor also so who knows how this ends up but I think the kid is a winner long term.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Look at Anthony Rizzo's numbers so far. GOD AWFUL his first year. Solid last year. There is still hope for guys like LAvarnway and Iglesias. Not saying they will turn it around like Rizzo in one year but we should not write them off.

    They both might be starters next year.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Lots of posters here who don't like this kid.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yonker, It's not a case of like or dislike. He's probably a great kid but he can't hit his way out of a paper bag. 

    Hetch

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    How many here are pro scouts and talent evaluators who have spent an extensive amount of time physically scouting Iggy????

     

    Right...now with that said it is so easy to write him off because he can't hit now at such a young age and 68 at bats this year.  Thank you for your zero insight or confidence!!!!

    He has shown a developing approach at the plate every year, and even though his stats have become unimpressive at the AAA level he has consistently been age advanced up until even now.

    He will never be an offensive power house but the people in the know, the scouts say he has the tools.  His struggles are very natural for any player his age and enhanced by the fact that he will have no power but he has the mechanics and the bat speed to have a good hit tool with development.  

     

    We will likely not have a chance of competing next year, so it seems feasible to me to play him and see what you Got.  With Aviles gone there is a open spot, and with Xander likely headed for the corner outfield or 3B he still may be he future SS in the eyes of the organization. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I think he will get a long look. I hope so.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    2013 is the ideal year to start someone like iglesias. they can use ciriaco or another vetran IF to take some of the heat off, play late in games, etc., but the kid is special enough in the field and has been groomed long enough to merit a full season look. with aviles gone this seems more likely to occur. this team is likely not going to make the playoffs and there are a bunch of kids coming in the bext few years so now is the time. if he can be outstanding in the field, hit .225, move runners over, bunt, be smart on the basepaths, use the whole field, he'll be okay. not that he has proven he can do these things yet (he obviusly needs improvment in a number of areas), but he had 68 ABs last year and his relative improvment at the AAA level should not be discounted. bottom line, no matter how he plays (even if he hits .150) he is not going to be the difference between success and failure on next years team. the beauty of having the money this team has is that we can always bring in another aviles type in 2014 if the expiriment doesn't work. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I think one thing is certain, this offseason will be a small window into the inning workings of the front office in respect to their confidence at the short stop position going forward. 

    It will be interesting to see because the Sox do have depth at the position going forward.  The man could be Xander going forward although a lot of scouts see him moving off the position.  Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see the sox sell WMB high and trade him and move Xander to third  if Iggy shows improvement at the plate next year; then there is Marrero, Vinicio, Gecchni, that Twanese prospect (sorry I can't remember his name).  

    What is interesting is that the more you dissect this issue the more you begin to see the dividends of a Sox drafting/scouting strategy of going after the best middle infield prospects.  The ones with good Bats who get big can always move to the outfield if they have a good arm or first base if they develop the power.  (although they seem to be going after more High school arms the last two years)

    One way or another I'm more confident now that the next short stop to play for a half a decade + in Boston is in our system. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    it's interesting that they are focusing glesias on conditioning this winter, ostensibly to prepare him for lots of PT next year and hopefully keep him healthier than he has been so far. That is possibly his bigest problem so far...staying healthy. I think there is little doubt he will be the starter next spring.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Iggy's offense has been discussed at great length on this site. He certainly struggled this year in a small sample size (77 PA & .118 BA/.200 OBP), but on defense, he was even better than advertised.

    Among the 59 MLB players with over 190 innings at SS, Iggy placed first in UZR/150. (Warning: UZR/150 is a metric that is supposed to be viewed in 2-3 season sample sizes, so 193 innings is a tiny sample size.)

    UZR/150

    1) Iggy        49.8

    2) Simmons     31.6  (ATL)

    3) Espinosa      24.8  (WASH)

    4) Kozma         18.6  (STL)

    5) Ryan            17.1

    6) Barnes         15.3

    7) Peralta         11.7 (DET)

    8) Ransom        11.3

    9) Hardy           10.1 (BAL)

    10) Pennington 10.1 (OAK)

    11) Crawford     9.7  (SFG)

    13) Andrus         9.1 (TEX)

    14) Cozart         9.0 (CIN)

    15) Janish          6.9 (ATL)

    16) Desmond     6.5 (WASH)

    18) Aviles          6.3

    28) Scutaro        1.3

    30) Lowrie        -0.2

    52) Jeter -16.4 (NYY)

     

    Notice all the playoff teams with top fielding SSs.

    Only the Yanks and STL have a team UZR/150 at SS below average. The other 8 ate top 15. (Overall the Sox ranked 3rd at +12.1)

    Baseball Reference has Iggys worth 9 runs on defense in just 23 games (about 21.5 for 9 innings games). Pro-rated, that would amount to about 62-68 runs over a full season!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Again moon, like in Salty's case we should only carry Iggy's bat if there is enough offense around him.  He and Salty need to improve offensively in my opinion to get into, or stay in our lineup as starters.  We need to improve our OBP as a whole not make it worse.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

     

    Again moon, like in Salty's case we should only carry Iggy's bat if there is enough offense around him.  He and Salty need to improve offensively in my opinion to get into, or stay in our lineup as starters.  We need to improve our OBP as a whole not make it worse.

     

    1) We aren't making the playoffs even if Iggy and Salty bat .350.

    2) Salty is a better offensive catcher than the average MLb catcher, so he is a plus on offense, not a negative.

    3) Yes, we need to and can improve our offense at other positions: LF, RF, and 3B (healthier Middlebrooks).

     

     

     

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