A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I think Bogaerts may be close to ML ready with the bat, but the SS position is tough to break into the majors, if you are not ready in the field.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Another year to adjust to advanced pitching is needed IMO. Sure he blasted a few HR, but he was getting fooled a lot as well. Still a little stiff defensively, but improving. I would hate to rush this kid when we dont need to, and take the chance of him not living up to the hype.

    At least a minimum of another year in the minors is needed for his development.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I still think he ends up at 3B or 1B, or maybe even OF by the time all is said and done.

    With Middlebrooks and Cecchini in the system, someone will end up traded or at 1B.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I still think he ends up at 3B or 1B, or maybe even OF by the time all is said and done.

    With Middlebrooks and Cecchini in the system, someone will end up traded or at 1B.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think if Iggy sticks at SS he goes to LF. Not a ton of ground to cover, just needs to learn the wall. What an OF 2014 could be if we had Bogaerts in LF, JBJ in CF, and Brentz in RF...The killah B's...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I still think he ends up at 3B or 1B, or maybe even OF by the time all is said and done.

    With Middlebrooks and Cecchini in the system, someone will end up traded or at 1B.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think if Iggy sticks at SS he goes to LF. Not a ton of ground to cover, just needs to learn the wall. What an OF 2014 could be if we had Bogaerts in LF, JBJ in CF, and Brentz in RF...The killah B's...

    [/QUOTE]

    He's tall enough to play 1B, but might not fit that typical mold. I think 3B is his likely best spot, but that may be blocked if Middlebrooks continues his trend.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I still think he ends up at 3B or 1B, or maybe even OF by the time all is said and done.

    With Middlebrooks and Cecchini in the system, someone will end up traded or at 1B.

    [/QUOTE]
    I was not that impressed with Middlebrooks defense at 3rd. If one of the other 2 prospects are better fielders then the spot for Middlebrooks might be to firstbase and let the youngster battle for the 3rd base position.  

    I think if Iggy sticks at SS he goes to LF. Not a ton of ground to cover, just needs to learn the wall. What an OF 2014 could be if we had Bogaerts in LF, JBJ in CF, and Brentz in RF...The killah B's...

    [/QUOTE]

    He's tall enough to play 1B, but might not fit that typical mold. I think 3B is his likely best spot, but that may be blocked if Middlebrooks continues his trend.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Bogaerts defense is still a work in progress. WMB had a few hiccups last year, I think due to being a little nervous. Hes better than what we saw last year and I think everyone will see it this year. Not sure with Bogaerts' defense a move to 3rd would be an improvement. OF seems a better fit IMO.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bogaerts defense is still a work in progress. WMB had a few hiccups last year, I think due to being a little nervous. Hes better than what we saw last year and I think everyone will see it this year. Not sure with Bogaerts' defense a move to 3rd would be an improvement. OF seems a better fit IMO.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure, also, who projects to the best fielding 3Bman: Middlebrooks, Cecchini or Bogaerts, but the Sox management probably has a good sense of that answer. Soon, they may need to act on that "sense" and move one to another position (1B).

    I hope that if Bogaerts never becomes a good fielding SS, they don't accept it and keep him there in hopes that his bat overcomes the weakness.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bogaerts defense is still a work in progress. WMB had a few hiccups last year, I think due to being a little nervous. Hes better than what we saw last year and I think everyone will see it this year. Not sure with Bogaerts' defense a move to 3rd would be an improvement. OF seems a better fit IMO.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure, also, who projects to the best fielding 3Bman: Middlebrooks, Cecchini or Bogaerts, but the Sox management probably has a good sense of that answer. Soon, they may need to act on that "sense" and move one to another position (1B).

    I hope that if Bogaerts never becomes a good fielding SS, they don't accept it and keep him there in hopes that his bat overcomes the weakness.

    [/QUOTE]


    I dont think its Bogaerts seeing he still has some issues with throwing the ball from SS. Hes getting better, but thats one part of his defense that is "still a work in progress". Cecchini, from what I hear/read, is a solid defender at the hot corner.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bogaerts defense is still a work in progress. WMB had a few hiccups last year, I think due to being a little nervous. Hes better than what we saw last year and I think everyone will see it this year. Not sure with Bogaerts' defense a move to 3rd would be an improvement. OF seems a better fit IMO.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure, also, who projects to the best fielding 3Bman: Middlebrooks, Cecchini or Bogaerts, but the Sox management probably has a good sense of that answer. Soon, they may need to act on that "sense" and move one to another position (1B).

    I hope that if Bogaerts never becomes a good fielding SS, they don't accept it and keep him there in hopes that his bat overcomes the weakness.

    [/QUOTE]


    I dont think its Bogaerts seeing he still has some issues with throwing the ball from SS. Hes getting better, but thats one part of his defense that is "still a work in progress". Cecchini, from what I hear/read, is a solid defender at the hot corner.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cecchini is still a long way from MLB, so the decision on who to move is not an urgent one there. The Bogaerts' decision may need to be made after this year.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bogaerts defense is still a work in progress. WMB had a few hiccups last year, I think due to being a little nervous. Hes better than what we saw last year and I think everyone will see it this year. Not sure with Bogaerts' defense a move to 3rd would be an improvement. OF seems a better fit IMO.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure, also, who projects to the best fielding 3Bman: Middlebrooks, Cecchini or Bogaerts, but the Sox management probably has a good sense of that answer. Soon, they may need to act on that "sense" and move one to another position (1B).

    I hope that if Bogaerts never becomes a good fielding SS, they don't accept it and keep him there in hopes that his bat overcomes the weakness.

    [/QUOTE]


    I dont think its Bogaerts seeing he still has some issues with throwing the ball from SS. Hes getting better, but thats one part of his defense that is "still a work in progress". Cecchini, from what I hear/read, is a solid defender at the hot corner.

    [/QUOTE]

    Cecchini is still a long way from MLB, so the decision on who to move is not an urgent one there. The Bogaerts' decision may need to be made after this year.

    [/QUOTE]


    Agreed on both counts. Although Cecchini may only be a couple years out (late 2015?) Once we are sure what we have with Iggy, then we can move forward. But not until then.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bill, I'm not so sure that upper management understands the true value of a great fielding SS.

    [/QUOTE]


    That's probably due to us winning the 2007 WS with Lugo...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Ciriaco is the odd man out in all these conversations. Gets to balls, decent arm, good speed and not a bad bat.

    Move Iggy back to the PawSox for next season or trade him to the Mariners for Figgins and his 2013 salary--Figgins becomes the super sub.

    2013 infield---Middle, Ciriaco, Pedroia and Gomez.

    outfield ----wishful thinking-----Bogaerts, JBJ and Brentz

    Catcher--Lavarnway and Salty

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bill, I'm not so sure that upper management understands the true value of a great fielding SS.

    [/QUOTE]


    That's probably due to us winning the 2007 WS with Lugo...

    [/QUOTE]

    Lugo made more than his share of errors, but had very good range up to and including 2007. I think he was a plus fielder that year or close by UZR. His range was certainly a plus as I remember on the UZR calculations.

    We may be splitting hairs here, but I think the defining moment in upper management's determination to have a fine offensive SS more so than a great defensive one was when we did not win in 2006 with Alex Gonzalez. Alex had one of the greatest fielding seasons I have seen at SS for the Sox since Luis Aparicio, but his OBP was .299. A no-no for the Sox sabermaniacs.

    Earlier, when Orlando Cabrera helped us win a ring with his defense in 2004, upper management, to some extent, might have been fooled a bit by his decent hitting to not fully value the huge upgrade his defense was over the 2007 version of Nomar. I remember the day we traded Nomar, I told my fellow Sox fans, "we just won the World Series... we finally got a great fielding SS!" I am still convinced that was a deciding factor (among many). I'm not sure Theo & gang valued it as much as I did.

    I still long for great fielding at the SS position. Perhaps my philosophy is a bit extreme in this area, but I have played baseball long enough to experience the tremendous value a superb fielding SS adds to any team from little league to MLB. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    Talk of Stephen Drew is interesting. There was a time I really liked him, but I don't see him as a fit now.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Talk of Stephen Drew is interesting. There was a time I really liked him, but I don't see him as a fit now.

    [/QUOTE]


    i feel the same way. while he is a much better option than anyone we currently have in the organization his injury problems are a concern.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I look at it this way, we will rely on some kids to fill at least one of these slots, and my bet is Iggy & Ciriaco at SS:

    1B: Gomez, Sands

    SS: Iggy, Ciriaco (Bogaerts)

    LF: Nava, Kalish, Linares (not Rule 5 yet, so may remain off the 40 man roster)

    RF: Sweeney (not a kid), Kalish, Linares

     

    In short, we will likely get a 1Bman, LF'er, and RF'er, but not a SS.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No one will deny that his defense will save runs. But the difference is all those SS can hit. Hopefully Jose will learn to also.

    [/QUOTE]


    You do realize that 14 teams had a SS BA of .250 or lower, right?

    10 under .240.

    4 under .228.

    Oakland .213.

    Seattle .195.

    5 of the bottom 10 teams in SS BA made the playoffs this year:

    Oak, Atl, Cincy, Bal, and Detroit

     

    [/QUOTE]


    hitting .250 and hitting >200 are 2 completely different things

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No one will deny that his defense will save runs. But the difference is all those SS can hit. Hopefully Jose will learn to also.

    [/QUOTE]


    You do realize that 14 teams had a SS BA of .250 or lower, right?

    10 under .240.

    4 under .228.

    Oakland .213.

    Seattle .195.

    5 of the bottom 10 teams in SS BA made the playoffs this year:

    Oak, Atl, Cincy, Bal, and Detroit

     

    [/QUOTE]


    hitting .250 and hitting >200 are 2 completely different things

    [/QUOTE]

    True, but saving more 100 hits over a season and saving 0-25 hits over a season are 2 completely different things as well.

    By the way...

    Team BA of some pretty good teams in 2012:

    SF: .257

    TB: .245

    Det: .239

    Bal: .238

    Cin: .237

    Atl: .230

    Pitt: .227

    Oak: .213

    Sea: .195

    All I'm saying is that you don't need great hitting from your SS position to do well. If Iggy hits .200, he's not that far away from some of these team's 2012 numbers, and I'm thinking his fielding should make up for some of this drop off against some of these teams, and a lot vs some others.

    Iggy could also hit .220 or .240, or even surprise us with .250+.

    Compared to how Gomez/Sands projects vs the average ML 1Bman and Kalish vs ML LF'ers/RF'ers, Iggy is the likely kid that gets the chance this year.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No one will deny that his defense will save runs. But the difference is all those SS can hit. Hopefully Jose will learn to also.

    [/QUOTE]


    You do realize that 14 teams had a SS BA of .250 or lower, right?

    10 under .240.

    4 under .228.

    Oakland .213.

    Seattle .195.

    5 of the bottom 10 teams in SS BA made the playoffs this year:

    Oak, Atl, Cincy, Bal, and Detroit

     

    [/QUOTE]


    hitting .250 and hitting >200 are 2 completely different things

    [/QUOTE]

    True, but saving more 100 hits over a season and saving 0-25 hits over a season are 2 completely different things as well.

    By the way...

    Team BA of some pretty good teams in 2012:

    SF: .257

    TB: .245

    Det: .239

    Bal: .238

    Cin: .237

    Atl: .230

    Pitt: .227

    Oak: .213

    Sea: .195

    All I'm saying is that you don't need great hitting from your SS position to do well. If Iggy hits .200, he's not that far away from some of these team's 2012 numbers, and I'm thinking his fielding should make up for some of this drop off against some of these teams, and a lot vs some others.

    Iggy could also hit .220 or .240, or even surprise us with .250+.

    Compared to how Gomez/Sands projects vs the average ML 1Bman and Kalish vs ML LF'ers/RF'ers, Iggy is the likely kid that gets the chance this year.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    well i agree that he will get a shot. its time to fish or cut bait with the kid, i just don't think he will hack it. i hope i'm wrong. i'm beginning to buy in on the affect of a fantastic fielding SS (especially on a rundown pitching staff) but there is a line for offensive production you have to meet and it doesn't look as if iggy can do so. if he hits .220 then give him the job. even if he was around .210 or skirting around .200 i would be OK with him (with pain on my face) pending his glove is as advertised.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ciriaco is the odd man out in all these conversations. Gets to balls, decent arm, good speed and not a bad bat.

    Move Iggy back to the PawSox for next season or trade him to the Mariners for Figgins and his 2013 salary--Figgins becomes the super sub.

    2013 infield---Middle, Ciriaco, Pedroia and Gomez.

    outfield ----wishful thinking-----Bogaerts, JBJ and Brentz

    Catcher--Lavarnway and Salty

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, sorry. Im not starting 2 career AAA players that are nothing more than utility guys if Im GM/Manager.

    I would say the Sox are giving up on the year if these 2 are our starting 1b and SS...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    For arguments sake if Iggy does save 100 hits in 150 games next year, how much higher than .200 does he have to hit to call it even?

    To oversimplify things, if you add 100 hits to a .200 hitter (100 H/ 500 AB), he's now hitting .400 (200 for 500). Would you accept that on offense from a below average fielding SS?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ciriaco is the odd man out in all these conversations. Gets to balls, decent arm, good speed and not a bad bat.

    Move Iggy back to the PawSox for next season or trade him to the Mariners for Figgins and his 2013 salary--Figgins becomes the super sub.

    2013 infield---Middle, Ciriaco, Pedroia and Gomez.

    outfield ----wishful thinking-----Bogaerts, JBJ and Brentz

    Catcher--Lavarnway and Salty

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, sorry. Im not starting 2 career AAA players that are nothing more than utility guys if Im GM/Manager.

    I would say the Sox are giving up on the year if these 2 are our starting 1b and SS...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think we get a 1Bman and corner OF'er this winter, and a top of rotation starter in July or next winter.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ciriaco is the odd man out in all these conversations. Gets to balls, decent arm, good speed and not a bad bat.

    Move Iggy back to the PawSox for next season or trade him to the Mariners for Figgins and his 2013 salary--Figgins becomes the super sub.

    2013 infield---Middle, Ciriaco, Pedroia and Gomez.

    outfield ----wishful thinking-----Bogaerts, JBJ and Brentz

    Catcher--Lavarnway and Salty

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, sorry. Im not starting 2 career AAA players that are nothing more than utility guys if Im GM/Manager.

    I would say the Sox are giving up on the year if these 2 are our starting 1b and SS...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think we get a 1Bman and corner OF'er this winter, and a top of rotation starter in July or next winter.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think its a good possibility they sign Hunter and Ross once Ross sees theres no 3/25 market for him. maybe 3 years, but not at 8.33M per. I think the Sox are only offering 2, so he could go elsewhere.

    Im stumped at 1b...I dont mind Gomez as a BU option, but no way an everyday starter.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A closer Look at Iggy's 2012 MLB Season

    I think we go after K Morales or Morneau. VMart is an outside bet, but I seriously doubt we go there. Carlos Pena could be a 1 year bridge player. The big question is LaRoche. He will get paid a lot, but not like AGon.

    He has a .788 OPS from 2010-2012 (11th best out of 1Bmen with 1400+ PAs).

    His .788 OPS from 2011-2012 is 18th best out of 1Bmen with 800+ PAs.

    He has 36 HRs & 40 2B/3B in his last 722 PAs.

    He just turned 33, so a decline is expected, but not definite.

    He's a slow starter (.768 1st half season over his career), but he is a bull down the stretch with an .886 2nd half OPS, including .911 in August.

    I'm not sure what the market will be on this guy, but not many big spending teams need a 1Bman next year.

     
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