A fresh Look at 2012

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jb12bb. Show jb12bb's posts

    A fresh Look at 2012

    We all know there will be changes, so here is my early guesstimation on what the 2012 RS could look like.

    CF-Ellsbury
    LF-Craword
    RF-Ludwick or Willingham
    3B-Youk
    SS-Scutaro
    2B-Pedroia
    1B-Gonzalez
    C-Salty
    DH- Papi

    Bench
    Reddick, Lavarnway, Avilas, Lowrie,

    Rotation
    Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Lackey, Buerhle or Edwin Jackson

    Pen
    Pap, Bard, Acevas, Jenks, Wheeler, Dubront, Weiland or Miller

    It is easier to get a RF for a decent price this year, but there is only two premium starters (CC and CJ) so they will look to acquire an innings eater or a ground ball pitcher.  Also the closer market is deep but the middle innings and lefty specialist market is thin.  So look for them to maybe make a trade involving Reddick or Lars Anderson to fill a void.

    Money will be tight this year, but that will allow them to spend in 2013 where there are some better options in the both the long and short term.

    And guys its just my opinion, instead of bashing mine, come up with your own. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    Willingham can't play RF. This is the majors, not fantasy baseball. Someone who is slow and has a poor arm is not going rto play RF in Fenway.
    The OF free agents are a pitiful lot, for the most part.
    The RF will likely come through a trade.
    Willingham and Cuddyer will be 33 years old when the season begins. Ludwick will be 34 during the season. Too old for an old team that needs to find young impact position players.
    When Theo tried to get Justin Upton, he was on the right track. When Theo missed in landing  Hunter Pence, he really missed the boat.
    The Sox do not have any right handed hitters close to being ready.
    Anyone who suggests Brentz, had better look at 17 errors made in RF this season.
    How can an outfielder make that many errors? He's got to be a real butcher.
    Even John Henry, today, shows he realized that the Sox are far to lefty heavy.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    In Response to A fresh Look at 2012:
    We all know there will be changes, so here is my early guesstimation on what the 2012 RS could look like. CF-Ellsbury LF-Craword RF-Ludwick or Willingham 3B-Youk SS-Scutaro 2B-Pedroia 1B-Gonzalez C-Salty DH- Papi Bench Reddick, Lavarnway, Avilas, Lowrie, Rotation Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Lackey, Buerhle or Edwin Jackson Pen Pap, Bard, Acevas, Jenks, Wheeler, Dubront, Weiland or Miller It is easier to get a RF for a decent price this year, but there is only two premium starters (CC and CJ) so they will look to acquire an innings eater or a ground ball pitcher.  Also the closer market is deep but the middle innings and lefty specialist market is thin.  So look for them to maybe make a trade involving Reddick or Lars Anderson to fill a void. Money will be tight this year, but that will allow them to spend in 2013 where there are some better options in the both the long and short term. And guys its just my opinion, instead of bashing mine, come up with your own. 
    Posted by jb12bb


    Actually the RF market looks weak.

    Willingham is among the worst defensive OF in the majors.  I like him as a hitter, and if Papi (or Youkilis) is not DH, he is a very good choice.

    Ludwick would be a good call, but he is injured alot.  The Red Sox don't need another player who goes on the DL because he got soap suds in his eyes.

    One guy you did not mention - and thank you for it - is Cuddyer, another horrific outfielder.  Fangraphs ranks him the second worst RF over the alst 3 years, ahead of only Carlos Quentin (who at least has a cannon for an arm).  I know a lot of people like Cuddyer's versatility, especially his ability to field RF, 2B and 3B equally poorly.

    I still like Cody Ross as a platoon partner for Reddick or Kalish.   Although I suppose it is possible the Sox deal Lackey for a bad contract right fielder.  Not sure who I want less - Vernon Wells or Alfonso Soriano...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    In Response to Re: A fresh Look at 2012:
    Willingham can't play RF. This is the majors, not fantasy baseball. Someone who is slow and has a poor arm is not going rto play RF in Fenway. The OF free agents are a pitiful lot, for the most part. The RF will likely come through a trade. Willingham and Cuddyer will be 33 years old when the season begins. Ludwick will be 34 during the season. Too old for an old team that needs to find young impact position players. When Theo tried to get Justin Upton, he was on the right track. When Theo missed in landing  Hunter Pence, he really missed the boat. The Sox do not have any right handed hitters close to being ready. Anyone who suggests Brentz, had better look at 17 errors made in RF this season. How can an outfielder make that many errors? He's got to be a real butcher. Even John Henry, today, shows he realized that the Sox are far to lefty heavy.
    Posted by GhostofTito


    While Brentz is certainly no Robert Clemente, be a little fair.  Those A-ball fields don't get the same sweet love and attention the MLB fields get and can be a little diffiocult to play at times.

    Upton or Pence would have been nice, but we couldn't match what Philly gave up for Pence with anyone in our farm system.

    There are things that can be done to get a respectable RF, though.  Maybe one thought is to stop limiting ourselves to right-handed hitters.  After all, if Ortiz does not come back, it opens up DH for a righty-bat.  Or 3b, if Youkilis gets some time at DH...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    I still like Cody Ross as a platoon partner for Reddick or Kalish.

    Upon further review, you have convinced me this would be a good pick-up. It would also allow us to spend valuable resources on pitching, SS and DH.


    RF: Ross/Reddick or Kalish
    CF: Ellsbury/Kalish
    LF: Crawford/DMac
    3B: Aviles/Lowrie/Youk/Scutaro/Middlebrooks(AAA)
    SS: Iglesias/Scutaro/Aviles
    2B: Pedroia/Lowrie
    1B: AGon/Lowrie
    DH: Youk/Lavarnway/Lowrie (vs LHPs)
    C: Lavarnway/VTek/Salty(AAA with one option left) 

    S1: Beckett (in shape, I hope)
    S2: Lester
    S3: Buchholtz (healthy, I hope)
    S4: Guthrie (via trade)
    S5: E. Jackson or Buehrle
    S6: Lackey (if not traded) /DiceK/Wake, Wang or Webb/ Weiland

    R1: Papelbon
    R2: Bard
    R3: Aceves
    R4: Jenks
    R5: see starter 6
    R6: see starter 6/Doubront/Albers/Morales/Atchison/others



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    Moon likes a RH platoon RF, so his crush, Josh Reddick can stink up the place like he did since the end of July.
    Sorry, I expect more from my corner players.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    My crush?  I was one of the few thatwas warning posters that Reddick's hot streak was just that; "a streak".

    Yeah, I'd rather have Kemp, but the money's not there to build the pitching staff like I prefer and spend big on RF and DH.

    We have to save somewhere and our farm system has some highly rated OF  prospects. 

    Where were you when I was saying we should have outbid StL for Holliday? (We wouldn't have CC if we did.)

    Where were you when we signed a glorified platoon LF'er last winter and I was dead against it?

    Where were you when I said we should have platooned VTek and Salty and not gone with the silly "caddy idea" that prohibits Salty from ever learning how to catch Beckett?
    VTek had 169 PAs vs RHPs with his .710 OPS vs RHPs (Salty .786)
    Salty had 123 PAs vs LHPs with his .635 OPS vs LHPs (VTek .748)
    Of course they'd have had a few PAs vs the wrong hand, but we could have improved upon maybe 150-180 PAs by about .080 to .090 OPS.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    I was screaming for Theo to get Holiday. In retrospect, not getting him looks even worse, as it lead to Lackey and Crawford.
    If you look at the money they spent this winter, why couldn't they have signed Holiday and Lackey?
    I hated the Cameroid signing. Worse yet was moving Ellsbury to LF.
    I also never liked the Crawford signing.
    You think Law is the only one allowed to be reincarnated?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    I asked where were you, not what you say now about what you wanted then.

    My record is here for all to view. Where's yours?

    You wrongly criticized me as having a "crush" on Reddick. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

    I posted I wanted Holliday.
    I posted I did not want CC and thought he was overpaid by $50M.
    I posted that I think pitching is our highest priority for 2012 (like #1, 2 and 3), then maybe SS at #4 and RF/DH coming in tied for 5th.

    Who is your choice for RF and what are you willing to sacrifice elsewhere? Put something in print, so we can look back at your post #16 and hold you accountable. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    CF Ells (MVP type season) 
    2B Pedroia (MVP type Season)
    1B AGon (MVP type Season)
    DH Yuk (MVP type Season)
    RF Kalish (Rookie surprise, think Fred Lynn)
    LF Crawford (unless he comes around, if he does he goes to 3)
    SS Scutaro (repeat of this year)
    3B Aviles (total surprise, he was on track for solid starter at KC until bad break) 
    C   Salty (better than this year)

    Beckett (15 wins)
    Lester (15 wins)
    Buchholtz (15 wins)
    Lackey (10 wins)
    Wake/ Weiland (12 wins)

    Bard (closer)
    Aceves (repeat this year)
    Jenks (improved)
    Three guys out of the Blue (turn over all year)  
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    Am I reading Kalish actually mentioned with Fred Lynn?
    Talk about once more over (way over) valuing Red Sox prospects.
    As for you, Moon, this isn't a court of law. I'm not answerable to you.
    I posted on all I said I did. If you save all your posts, you've got far too much time on your hands.
    I think Carlos Quentin is a player who can provide the Sox what they need and not cost an arm and a leg.
    I don't know if the Rays would trade within the division, but BJ Upton has a lot of untapped potential, and maybe a change of scenery could help bring it out.
    He certainly could cover RF with ease.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    One way to look at it...

    Trade: Youkilis: 12:$12M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
                Salty, Iglesias, and 3 of [Doubront, Bowden, Weiland, or Ranaudo]

    For: Johnny Cueto: 12:$5.4M, 13:$7.4M, 14:$10M, 15:$10M club option ($0.8M buyout)
             Scott Rolen: 12:$6.5M         
             Bill Bray (LH RP: 2 arbs)

    Cincy loses Hernandez (C) to free agency and had a .521 OPS at SS in Janish. 

    Sign: Papelbon, Papi, Scutty (option), Edwin Jackson, Ramon Hernandez, and Cody Ross.

    C: Hernandez/Lavarnway
    1B: AGon
    2B: Pedey
    SS: Scutty/Aviles
    3B: Rolen/(Aviles) Lowrie
    LF: Crawford
    CF: Ellsbury
    RF: Ross/ Kalish or Reddick
    DH: Papi

    S1: Beckett
    S2: Lester
    S3: Buchholtz
    S4: Cueto
    S5: Jackson
    S6: Lackey

    R1: Papelbon
    R2: Bard
    R3: Aceves
    R4: Bray
    R5: Jenks
    R6: Morales/Albers/Atchison
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    In Response to Re: A fresh Look at 2012:
    One way to look at it... Trade: Youkilis:  12 :$12M, 13 :$13M club option ($1M buyout)             Salty, Iglesias, and 3 of [Doubront, Bowden, Weiland, or Ranaudo] For: Johnny Cueto:  12 :$5.4M, 13 :$7.4M, 14 :$10M, 15 :$10M club option ($0.8M buyout)           Scott Rolen:  12 :$6.5M                    Bill Bray (LH RP: 2 arbs) Cincy loses Hernandez (C) to free agency and had a .521 OPS at SS in Janish.  Sign: Papelbon, Papi, Scutty (option), Edwin Jackson, Ramon Hernandez, and Cody Ross. C: Hernandez/Lavarnway 1B: AGon 2B: Pedey SS: Scutty/Aviles 3B: Rolen/(Aviles) Lowrie LF: Crawford CF: Ellsbury RF: Ross/ Kalish or Reddick DH: Papi S1: Beckett S2: Lester S3: Buchholtz S4: Cueto S5: Jackson S6: Lackey R1: Papelbon R2: Bard R3: Aceves R4: Bray R5: Jenks R6: Morales/Albers/Atchison
    Posted by moonslav59


    The Reds have 26yo Zack Cozart, who had a .825 OPS in AAA and a .811 OPS in limited MLB time.  Apparently he has been tagged as the 2011 SS.  Paul Janish is a non-tender candidate, despite his incredible defense.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    Maybe drop a pitcher and Iggy and add Middlebrooks?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: A fresh Look at 2012

    They also have 24yo Juan Francisco for 3B, the guy who ripped the 512 foot home run against the Cubs ths year.  He hit .307 / .334 / .340 in AAA this past year.
     
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