A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    I hope the Cubs finally realize what kind of executive Theo really is.  In Boston, the foundation to win a championship was already here, now his lack of experience should really begin to show.  Trading AGon, CC and Josh was like throwing a huge dart at Theo's cedibility and there should be more to come like Lackey, Salty, Aviles and especially Dice and Jenks finally leaving town.

    The new era in Boston has begun and although I feel we took another step backwards on the field by losing AGon it should be interesting to see what comes next.  Ben and company pulled off something we have never seen before so give them credit because none of us expected three huge salaries gone all at once.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from juniorfalcon19. Show juniorfalcon19's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    salty shouldnt be part of this equation. Texas wanted to trade him for buccholz plus. Theo stood pat and then got him for nothing down the road and he's been pretty good for us this year. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    Today, Ben settled all family business.

    No Theo, your punishment is your out of the family business.  Here's your plane ticket to Chicago......
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]salty shouldnt be part of this equation. Texas wanted to trade him for buccholz plus. Theo stood pat and then got him for nothing down the road and he's been pretty good for us this year. 
    Posted by juniorfalcon19[/QUOTE]

    A 280 OBP with an average arm and improved defense "from terrible" won't make our team better.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]I hope the Cubs finally realize what kind of executive Theo really is.  In Boston, the foundation to win a championship was already here, now he his lack of experience should really begin to show.  Trading AGon, CC and Josh was like throwing a huge dart at Theo's cedibility and there should be more to come like Lackey, Salty, Aviles and especially Dice and Jenks finally leaving town. The new era in Boston has begun and although I feel we took another step backwards on the field by losing AGon it should be interesting to see what comes next.  Ben and company pulled off something we have never seen before so give them credit because none of us expected three huge salaries gone all at once.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    I don't get why Aviles and Salty are on this list.  They are two guys that work hard for not much money relatively speaking.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to A huge black mark in Theo's reputation : I don't get why Aviles and Salty are on this list.  They are two guys that work hard for not much money relatively speaking.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    They work hard but have back up type talent which once again proves Theo didn't have a clue as to assembling a starting roster. 

    Thats the way to kick him to the curb Ben
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation : They work hard but have back up type talent which once again proves The didn't have a clue as to assembling a starting roster.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    I am with you there.  But there is no need to "get rid" of them.  Both of them would be excellent back ups. They aren't the issue on the team.  The issue is they were made starters.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation : I am with you there.  But there is no need to "get rid" of them.  Both of them would be excellent back ups. They aren't the issue on the team.  The issue is they were made starters.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    I agree snake, guys with horrible OBP's and average talent don't belong in a starting lineup.  They are basically "fill in guys" for starters who need a rest or get hurt.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    I agree with your main point though...Cherington's whole job at this point is fixing the mess that Theo made.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    If you're giving Ben credit for this trade, which I agree is a good one but guarantees nothing but a fresh start, then Theo gets credit for the gutsy Nomar trade that directly led to the 2004 championship. It takes guts to trade an icon and he got the exact right pieces back. 

    Theo did make some bad moves too, and late in his tenure here he made some horrible ones, but that doesn't mean he didn't make some good moves too. His legacy is mixed. Having said that while these bad contracts were Theo's fault I believe he correclty referred to "the monster" - that ownership/management here has applied pressure to please the fans with box office and ratings attractions that have led to some of these decisions. That's on Theo but Theo's bosses don't get a pass either. To this day we know that some opposed signing Crawford and some didn't, and we don't have the straight story as to who. 

    I believe Theo's reputation will be settled by what happens to the Cubs. If he can rebuild that team and get them a championship he's headed to the hall of fame. If he fails there his legacy will be more on the "overrated" side. 

    What matters now is we're about to be free of some of the worst of these contracts- waiting on Selig's approval but it's expected to go through...


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]If you're giving Ben credit for this trade, which I agree is a good one but guarantees nothing but a fresh start, then Theo gets credit for the gutsy Nomar trade that directly led to the 2004 championship. It takes guts to trade an icon and he got the exact right pieces back.  Theo did make some bad moves too, and late in his tenure here he made some horrible ones, but that doesn't mean he didn't make some good moves too. His legacy is mixed. Having said that while these bad contracts were Theo's fault I believe he correclty referred to "the monster" - that ownership/management here has applied pressure to please the fans with box office and ratings attractions that have led to some of these decisions. That's on Theo but Theo's bosses don't get a pass either. To this day we know that some opposed signing Crawford and some didn't, and we don't have the straight story as to who.  I believe Theo's reputation will be settled by what happens to the Cubs. If he can rebuild that team and get them a championship he's headed to the hall of fame. If he fails there his legacy will be more on the "overrated" side.  What matters now is we're about to be free of some of the worst of these contracts- waiting on Selig's approval but it's expected to go through...
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    I think everyone around baseball knows Theo incompetence was being made an example of with this trade.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]If you're giving Ben credit for this trade, which I agree is a good one but guarantees nothing but a fresh start, then Theo gets credit for the gutsy Nomar trade that directly led to the 2004 championship. It takes guts to trade an icon and he got the exact right pieces back.  Theo did make some bad moves too, and late in his tenure here he made some horrible ones, but that doesn't mean he didn't make some good moves too. His legacy is mixed. Having said that while these bad contracts were Theo's fault I believe he correclty referred to "the monster" - that ownership/management here has applied pressure to please the fans with box office and ratings attractions that have led to some of these decisions. That's on Theo but Theo's bosses don't get a pass either. To this day we know that some opposed signing Crawford and some didn't, and we don't have the straight story as to who.  I believe Theo's reputation will be settled by what happens to the Cubs. If he can rebuild that team and get them a championship he's headed to the hall of fame. If he fails there his legacy will be more on the "overrated" side.  What matters now is we're about to be free of some of the worst of these contracts- waiting on Selig's approval but it's expected to go through...
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    Everyone likes to say "Ben" and "Theo," but like all billion dollar corporations, a large number of people have a say in the process of any significant transaction within the Sox organizaion. Larry Lucchino has had the final say on a lot of baseball decisions.   As a matter of fact, this trade with the Dodgers was initiated by a call from the Dodgers to Lucchino. Theo is as respected around the game as anybody. Placing "blame" on Theo for "Crawford," "Lackey" etc. is ridiculous when it could have just as easily been Larry, or another executive who pushed for these guys...I'm pretty sure Theo Epstein isn't sweating his "legacy."
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation : I think everyone around baseball knows Theo incompetence was being made an example of with this trade.  
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Yup

    Jenks - out

    CC - out

    Beckett - out

    AGone - out

    if only we could get Beltre back........
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation : Yup Jenks - out CC - out Beckett - out AGone - out if only we could get Beltre back........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    andrewmitch, I would bet my last dollar Theo will have a couple extra drinks tonight.  It was a perfect way to say SC..W YOU
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation : Yup Jenks - out CC - out Beckett - out AGone - out if only we could get Beltre back........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    And Lackey out. Thats the last of the big Theo mistakes. He was not a horrible GM, just a mediocre one who is still worshipped by some Sox fans.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    I don't know what SC... YO means and Theo will be sitting on about $25 million in a couple more years so I am sure not much bothers him but Big Ben and the FO sent Theo a message - your moves were terrible.........And most importantly, the Sox FO finally admitted to the fans they messed up - something Leaping Larry was SPINING all season long; hopefully this leads to more truthfulness.......
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    time to turn on NESN

    I hope Eck is on tonight!!!!!!!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]time to turn on NESN I hope Eck is on tonight!!!!!!!!
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Eck would probably make a great pitching coach.  Anyone who can have success as a hard throwing starter, then train himself to be a great reliever when he loses a bit of his stuff has my respect.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]I hope the Cubs finally realize what kind of executive Theo really is.  In Boston, the foundation to win a championship was already here, now he his lack of experience should really begin to show.  Trading AGon, CC and Josh was like throwing a huge dart at Theo's cedibility and there should be more to come like Lackey, Salty, Aviles and especially Dice and Jenks finally leaving town. The new era in Boston has begun and although I feel we took another step backwards on the field by losing AGon it should be interesting to see what comes next.  Ben and company pulled off something we have never seen before so give them credit because none of us expected three huge salaries gone all at once.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Can't disagree with that. If the goal was to clean up the finances and free the team to move in another direction, they sure as heck did that. From that regard it was almost unmatched in baseball history. Time alone will tell based on how the free money is spent. If it turns out to be a Herschel Walker type deal, the Sox could be ahead of the game again soon
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    In Response to Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to A huge black mark in Theo's reputation : I don't get why Aviles and Salty are on this list.  They are two guys that work hard for not much money relatively speaking.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Aviles is a dirt dog. Isn't the best, but gives it everything. Salty gives it his best, but is just not improving at the plate the way it looked like he was earlier in the season. He may have plateaued. If so, it's time to move him and look elsewhere. Napoli maybe.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Motown9009. Show Motown9009's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation


    I'd love to blame Theo, but it's so hard to tell who's really in control and how many of the moves he made were his moves, LL's moves, or a combination of both.

    He was just all over the place. One minute he's playing moneyball, then he's developing from within, they'd let players leave 9 times out of 10 rather than pay them, then turn around and throw money at guys like Drew, Dice-K, Lackey, etc...Johnny Damon wasn't worth what he wanted. They wouldn't just exercise Manny's option incase he decline in one year...but Lackey? Give him what he wants?  Given how so many of their moves contradicted their previous moves/mindset I really don't think Theo was calling all the shots.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: A huge black mark in Theo's reputation

    Maybe so but he helped bring two WS trophies here and that means a lot. The last 2 yrs he started straying from his own team building philosophies and it didn't work out. At least Ben had the stones today to make a bold move to start cleaning up the mess Theo left. 
     

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