A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    ya im not overly thrilled about how this offseason has gone either. mujica was a good signing, aj was ok (though letting salty walk is putting alot of faith in vasquez and swihart) napoli i dont mind since it was only a 2 yr deal, though i agree with you on hart, would have been a good pick up (could even have played him in LF).  Drew i couldnt agree more, makes no sense at all to bring him back. we have bogaerts and middlebrooks to cover ss and 3rd. spend the money on replacing ellsbury, not mediocre drew. which brings me to perhaps the biggest issue I have with this offseason so far, the lack of urgency to replace ellsbury. we lost one of our top 3 hitters in ellsbury and are left with an outfield of victorino (who is good but always injured), nava and gomes who are below average defensively and bradley who is yet to show he can hit at the major league level but is solid defensively. simply replacing ellsbury with the guys above wont cut it. we need to deal for an outfielder. so far the only one mentioned is matt kemp. I for one would be all for getting kemp depending on the price. he is a risk, but the reward could be massive. middle of the order right handed power bats are not easy to come by and he offers us a direct replacement for ellsbury and is a better fit. Stanton would be another one but there are no indications that he is available and would cost alot more. Now reports are saying the sox wont pony up for kemp, and i dont really see any other legit options. right now we have no 3/4 hitters on this team. kemp is a gamble, but the reality is that if we wait till the end of spring training and kemp has shown he is healthy, then the price goes way up. as the saying goes, no risk, no reward.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    Draft pick and Middlebrooks and Bogaerts and virtual zero cost vs. Drew and 10M a year and 20 to 30M?\

     

    I agree that Drew should not be signed, but if he was theactual equation would be this:

    Draft pick, Middy and Bogey vs Drew, $8-9M more a year and whatever we get by trading Middy. 

    (The $8-9M could be wiped clean by dumping Dempster and paying $3-5M of his deal.)

     

    Nice to see a thoughtful post softy. Keep it up.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........


    Well, they did say that the Sox aren't finished yet, so lets see what else they are going to do.   But I agree 100% that they need to do something with the OF, which they probably will.

    I think they need to make a decisions on who is their 3b for the future is.  Assuming it is Cecchini, I would use Middlebrooks (packaged with others as needed) to get a quality OF'er.  This is also where Drew IS important, so the left side of the infield will be intact until Cecchini is ready.

    It is no secret their OF needs attention and I am sure they will address that before the season starts.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    I would have signed Drew before Napoli. I'm worried about his hip problems that are not going away any time soon, and only getting worse. But, I think Boras wants Bogaerts at SS.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........


    lack of urgency with replacing Ells also my concern...JBJ may be it....but what is backup plan?

    I also will commend Softy on this post....he critiqued it well and offered solutions. Softy you didn't get insulting about player move....nice change of pace.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    What's been on the Table:

    Ellsbury - did the Red Sox really make a written offer of 100 million plus? I don't believe it for a n-second, but I'm glad the Yankees took care of this guaranteed disaster that so many Red Sox fans wanted to sign up for the 7 year's in assisted living plan that isn't covered on the "exchange"  

    Salty - Defensive problems put the no confidence status on him when everything was on the line. This was known to a few and ignored by many. 3 Years and 21 million guranteed was taken off the table when AJ and 7 million was...............

    AJ - ........... (been) on the table     There was no real choice to be made, here, with AJ and Ross moving another year closer to a solid farm talent of catchers. Spending 14 million in 2015 and 2016 on Salty is more than a Hollywood Squares to block, it's plain stupidity

    Napoli - This second to Koji solid 2013 1 year low cost contract move has given way to the emotion of what was, and is now a 32 million and 16 million a year deal for a 32 year old guy who has only played more than 114 games twice in the last 5 seasons. His highest slugging  percentage in the last 2 years is .482 and he's averaged 24 homers and 74 RBI's in the last 2 years.  

    Somehow, from 2013 to 2014 and 2015, the import of the same medical records that nixed a 3 year deal into a 1 year deal have somehow changed now because medication and one year of holding up well means it's now prudent to go 2 years and 32 million? Really? This was the best move out there? 

    Is 16 million a year for 2 years really the best buy out there?  

    Anyone going to be suprised when the "great clubhouse guy" becomes the PR drumbeat after this deal moves near year 2? Did all those good but not great teams that didn't win it all in a given season, was missing "great clubhouse guy(s)" the missing link;)

    What's never even been seriously considered as the altnerative to what's been on the table or is now on the table, as an alternative to:

    Napoli ..............................

    Hart-  6 million for 1 year plus incentives. Doesn't this sound familiar? Think Beltre and Napoli 2013. Hart missed the entire 2013 season after January surgery to his left knee, but had a:

    133 and 120 OPS+ in his prior 2 seasons

    Napoli's last 2 years 113 and 129 OPS+

    So, why wasn't 6 million and Hart and a draft pick on the table over Napoli and 32 million and no draft pick? 

    Hart is a year younger and both have injury issues.

    Ellsbury..........................................

    Rajai Davis2 years and 10 million total for a better hitter for LP than Ellsbury and a perfect bridge to and compliment to Bradley. With Nava and Bradley and Gomes and Victorino, what's the point in having Carp as opposed to promoting Bradley and signing Davis? Davis completely replaces Ellsbury's cumalative steals, which is about the only thing that his supporters could talk about as this "we can't repace that". 

    Davis was so cheap that with his age 33 and speed he's about as easy a veteran to trade at anytime, as possible. I venture to say that he's one of the few vetreran FA cases where he appreciated in trade value the moment the Tigers signed him, not that anything but getting another team to pay the rest of his small contract is all that should have mattered. 

     

    Now, let's look at the only thing left on the table, which makes no sense whatsoever.

    Drew-

    Bogaerts has an .893 OPS in the post season, and we don't need to even mention Drew in the post season. During the season, Drew's .777 OPS may look impressive, but does anyone think that Bogaerts won't be near or above that next season? 

    Middlebrooks has one partial season with an .835 OPS and 2 partial seasons and 32 homers. At age 25 and virtually zero cost, what's the point in paying 10 million a year or guaranteeing the 31 year old Drew 20 to 30 million or more? So that Bogaerts can move to 3rd and Middlebrooks traded after one big season and one down season where he still hit for the same pop? The Red Sox don't have a DH signed for 2015 and Napoli is on a 2 year contract and the Red Sox have Cecchini (lefty high OPB low pop) on the farm.

    Draft pick and Middlebrooks and Bogaerts and virtual zero cost vs. Drew and 10M a year and 20 to 30M?

    Why on earth is this even a decision!

    Since Ellsbury and Salty packed their bags for more money, why on earth is "the clubhouse" magic have anything to do with telling Drew to unpack his bags to get the Red Sox to match more money from some other team?

    And this defense that is being throw out about Drew. His UZR in this last 2 years is a negative 1.7, and his 2013 UZR was 11th out of 21 SS. Hardly a basis to fork out 10 million a year and lose a draft pick. Bogaerts UZR is 1.8, which is better than Drew's 2 year UZR.

    Middlebrooks has a HR for every 19 AB's, and costs virtual zero for years to come.

    Why on earth make it a competition between Bogaerts and Middlebrooks, in a blocking contest?

     

    Choosing Napoli over Hart is one thing. Doing nothing on Davis and making Nava sit some for Carp, but still considering Drew? You can't be serious!




    I dont mind the nap deal, but I was campaigning for har on a similar deal like naps had this year. Either one I would have been fine with.

    I wanted Justin Ruggiano to be a nice RH compliment for JBJ and someone who can play every OF position with solid defense. he also has some "pop"in his bat and would have cost us someone like Castellanos who was just DFA'd. sigh. He makes like 1.8M and is under control for a couple more seasons.

    Although I liked the Drew idea last year, this year is much different. I want Xander to jump in with both feet and be our starting SS. No moving from SS to 3b. I want Middy to play FT at 3b also. I have a good feeling about him in 2014. Not AS numbers, but something along the lines of 270 .320. 480 and 25HR I think would be realistic numbers to attain for Middy.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    I would like to see someone to replace Ellsbury, but don't think Hart or Davis is the solution.  I'm not sure that Davis gives you much more than Bradley.  Hart would worry me for 2 reasons.  1 is how well he comes back from the injury.  The 2nd is his home/away splits.  Check them out.  Over his career his OPS is .130 higher home vs away, last two years it's more like .250-.300.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    I would have signed Drew before Napoli. I'm worried about his hip problems that are not going away any time soon, and only getting worse. But, I think Boras wants Bogaerts at SS.



    Kim, what do you know about Napoli's hip that I don't? By all reports the treatment over the past year has stooped the deterioration, and he hasn't had any issues.  My guess is getting out from behind the plate has a lot to do with it too.  And don't you think the Sox did as much medical due dilligence as possible before offering him 2 years?

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

     By all reports the treatment over the past year has stooped the deterioration,


    Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

    Please provide reference to "by all reports". My understanding is that Napoli has a disease which can't be cured. While medication may control it's progression, that and the coming affects reaming to be seen. The issue isn't "can Napoli provide two years similar to 2013". The question is what it the more prudent decision when weighing "the comparitive health risk and costs of Napoli vs. Hart + draft pick if Hart is signed instead of Napoli". For you, it's either Napoli or you think it's coin flip. For me, it's an easy call to go with a 1 year make good contract for Hart and take the draft pick and know that the 1st base market is a buyer's market. 



    No, I do not think it is a coin flip.  Yes, there is a risk that Napoli's hip could crumble into dust over the next two years.  But, by all reports (do I really need to dig this stuff up, you heard the same news I did ... ok here is one: http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/08/07/mri-reveals-no-change-in-mike-napolis-hip-condition/)

    it is not showing signs of deterioration.  He felt no problems with it in 2013.  I am positive the Sox did any post-season follow-up on the condition before offering him $16 million.

    The risk that it could suddenly go south is WAAAYY less of a risk in my mind than signing a guy who missed all of last year after MULTIPLE knee surgeries.

    Hart may well be in make-good mode, but if his body is latter-day Buckner, that might be a relative make-good.

    We know what we get with a healthy Napoli.  And, for now, he is healthy.  I can;t be sure Hart is fit for baseball until he shows he can play at the same level.  Seems to me like an easy call on the comparative health risk too.  In favor of Napoli though.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    Hart, Davis, or any other player we don't get has no bearring. As for re-signing Drew, if they do they might as well start grooming Middlebrooks for 1B, because that'll mean the sox have decided on Bogaerts as a 3b man, this will create a problem when Cecchini is ready next year. They are hoping that Marerro is the next SS, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them sign either of the two Cubans Diaz or Arrenbunna ( I might have spelled his name wrong). They did just picked up  Jonathan Roof in the rule 5 AAA draft. They still need a CF who can b/u Bradley, as it appears they prefer to leave Victorino in RF, and the closest one in the system is Wilkerson who bats RH, from what I remember of him he has decent speed and he is a bit of a streaky hitter, this is going to be his first year in AAA. All things being considerded equal if I'm the Sox I drive the cost of signing Tanaka through the roof... If I get lucky I get a true #1.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    Hart, Davis, or any other player we don't get has no bearring. As for re-signing Drew, if they do they might as well start grooming Middlebrooks for 1B, because that'll mean the sox have decided on Bogaerts as a 3b man, this will create a problem when Cecchini is ready next year. They are hoping that Marerro is the next SS, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them sign either of the two Cubans Diaz or Arrenbunna ( I might have spelled his name wrong). They did just AAA rule 5 draft a SS in Jonathan Roof. They still need a CF and the closest one in the system is Wilkerson who bats RH, from what I remember of him he has decent speed and he is a bit of a streaky hitter. All things being considerded equal if I'm the Sox I drive the cost of signing Tanaka through the roof... If I get lucky I get a true #1.



    Thats what we said about Matsuzaka.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    That the Sox did not pursue Davis lr Ruggiano might mean they simply have more faith in Bradley.

     

    Hart was a bad idea from day one, especially on a one year deal.  He missed all of last season, yet people think he will simply step right back in and pick up where he left off?  Better hitters like V-Mart and Kendrys missed full seasons and struggled for half a season or more...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    If the draft pick gained by not signing Drew is so valuable, should those who said the signing was terrible (myself included) now realize the great gain we got from the signing?

    (Although we are a bit lucky Drew said no to the QO.)

    1) We won a ring.

    2) We stayed under the cap.

    3) He fielded very well.

    4) We gained a sandwich pick.

     

    All for $9.5M.

    The pick alone might end up being worth more than $10M someday.

     

    Great job Ben. You "jobbed" BorA$$.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    Hart, Davis, or any other player we don't get has no bearring. As for re-signing Drew, if they do they might as well start grooming Middlebrooks for 1B, because that'll mean the sox have decided on Bogaerts as a 3b man, this will create a problem when Cecchini is ready next year. They are hoping that Marerro is the next SS, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them sign either of the two Cubans Diaz or Arrenbunna ( I might have spelled his name wrong). They did just picked up  Jonathan Roof in the rule 5 AAA draft. They still need a CF who can b/u Bradley, as it appears they prefer to leave Victorino in RF, and the closest one in the system is Wilkerson who bats RH, from what I remember of him he has decent speed and he is a bit of a streaky hitter, this is going to be his first year in AAA. All things being considerded equal if I'm the Sox I drive the cost of signing Tanaka through the roof... If I get lucky I get a true #1.




     

    Shannon Wilkerson is unlikely to see MLB ever in his life.  And if he does, the ceiling of backup OF and PR is probably about all he gets.

     

    I hope he does make MLB, but the guy is a non-prospect....

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    10/20/13

    That condition is avascular necrosis (or AVN) -- a degenerative hip condition discovered during the routine physicals that accompanied Napoli's contract negotiations last winter. With AVN, a lack of blood supply causes the death of bone tissue. In Napoli's case, the blood flow into his hip sockets is restricted. Left untreated, it can cause persistent pain and stiffness and reduced range of motion. If the hip bone becomes necrotic, the condition can cause pain to radiate from the hip into the groin and down the leg. In the worst-case scenario, the femoral head can become so brittle it collapses. NFL star Brett Favre played nearly two decades with AVN, but it was also the condition that ultimately ended Bo Jackson's dual-sports careers.

    Napoli, though, has been completely asymptomatic. He's managing his hip issues with osteoporosis medication, which slows the rate of bone degeneration and maximizes healthy bone production. He's had MRIs every three months since January, and they have shown no increase in bone loss.

    "You're in a quandary when you find AVN, because it's unpredictable," said Dr. Bryan Kelly of the Hospital for Special Surgery, who performed hip surgery on the Yankees' Alex Rodriguez. "You don't know if the bone tissue is going to be stable or if it will collapse and leave the player unable to play at all.

    "If a large part of the femoral head has avascular necrosis, the team doctor would be concerned, and for Napoli, it became a scarlet letter on his medical chart. But if he's had repeated good MRIs, I wouldn't worry about it. He's proven it's stable and he can play with it."

    Prior to signing with the Red Sox, Napoli did have pain from a labrum tear in his left hip that he's had since his time with the Angels, and it was the investigation of that issue which led to his diagnosis of AVN.

    When Napoli was catching, the labrum was an issue, and the pinch he felt while moving quickly in and out of a squat was a constant reminder.

    "When I caught, it would rub and it'd be pinching so bad that the whole side of my leg would be hurting," he said.

    That pain was managed with cortisone shots throughout his time in Texas, but once Napoli stopped catching, the pain went away.

    Still, labrum tears can be scary for baseball players -- and baseball doctors -- because they limit the ability to get proper hip rotation. Remember how, for a while before his surgery, Rodriguez was late on his swings? But many people can also have labrum tears and be pain-free, as Napoli has been -- despite his AVN -- since moving primarily to first base.

    "We're happy for Mike," Farrell said. "He has physically responded to the treatment he began last offseason and has had follow up imaging just to monitor [the situation]. The treatment is working. It has not allowed any further deterioration, and the way he's performed is everything that we anticipated. [He] has been a main contributor to our entire year."

    11/1/13

    Red Sox first baseman Mike Napoli has seen some improvement in his hip, according to CSN. During his exit physical, Napoli's hip reportedly looked better than it did last offseason...

    12/13/13 

    "It's a two year guaranteed deal, I won't get into the specific language and details but there's no special coverage or anything like that related to the hip.  Mike is healthy and we're thrilled that he's going to be a big part of our club for the next couple of years and beyond," said Cherington.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    Need to get left side of the infield settled.  Then by the time we find out if Jackie Bradley can play a little bit, if we are unhappy with that situation, perhaps Kemp will be healthy or Stanton might be sick of losing and want a new home. Of course maybe he doesn't care  With him I would be happy with a Manny attitude at the least., but only if he produces, and if he doesn't we could always trade him to the Dodgers.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: A look at the 2013 Red Sox Table: What was On or Off and what is still On.........

    In response to solareclipse's comment:

    Hart was a bad idea from day one, especially on a one year deal.  


    Remains to be seen. I think Hart is a good idea on a one year 6M worst case basis. 

    He missed all of last season, yet people think he will simply step right back in and pick up where he left off?  Better hitters like V-Mart and Kendrys missed full seasons and struggled for half a season or more...


    Baseball isn't a "half a season". VMart finished the season so strong he wasn't far from his normal numbers. But, Hart doesn't have to do as well as before to make him and the draft pck and 6 million be greater than 32 million for Napoli and his high miles from 2013 and older than Hart and with Napoli's degenerative hip disease. 



    Martinez had the lowest OPS and OPS+ of his career with the exception of his injury-plagued 2008. Kendrys Morales has also not been the same since missing a year.  Hart is the worst overall hitter of the three, and chances are very very good he has a poor season closer to his worst if not his outright worst.  He is far and away the biggest gamble in the entjre 1b market, as reflected by his price.

     

     

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share