a plus for Big Papi??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    MLB made it a "position" and some of the people who vote NEED to recognize it. Just because some dont like the DH doesnt discount the fact that MLB created it and it should be recognized.

    [/QUOTE]


    SP, Again right on the $. If your going to create a position in baseball, then why should these players that played DH not be worthy. Its a position in the lineup and if you were the best one to do it since it was created than why should you not be considered for the HOF. Frank Thomas and Papi both deserve to be in and a very good case could be made for Edgar Martinez.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    it is a no brainer that Ortiz will go in.  The only question is how soon it will be after he officially retires.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    it is a no brainer that Ortiz will go in.  The only question is how soon it will be after he officially retires.

    [/QUOTE]


    I knew you'd come around Wink

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to notin's comment:



    The voters certainly do value post-season heroics, where Papi has excelled.  There is no other explanation as to why average-to-below average pitcher Don Larsen was even able to get on the ballot 15 times...




    I am glad you put it as "post season heroics". In that area, Papi might be number 1.

     

    However somebody recently here said that Papi was the greatest hitter in playoff history. When it comes to overall post season hitting, Papi hasn't been great, just excellent. His .962 career OPS in the playoffs is just slightly better then his regular season career OPS. Ruth, Gehrig and Carlos Beltran laugh at his paltry .962 OPS. And for career playoff totals, Papi ranks in the top 3 in ZERO stats. Manny Ramirez has 29 career homers compared to Papi's 17. I would add Bernie Williams and Albert Pujols as better in the playoffs. Maybe more.

    Would like to see what the percentages were for Larson, if he hung on in the 5-10% area, I guess it would show that there were 5-10% of voters who were idiots.

    On a side note, I was looking at the 1947-1964 Yankees teams trying to figure out how they actually went to the World Series 15-18 years. From a WAR stand point, they were not a dominant team what so ever. Especially in pitching. During that entire period, they had only 1 starter{Whitey Ford} with a WAR over 26. Their second best pitcher was Vic Raschi who had a 3.47 ERA. How in the world did they win 10 championships? It seems more like they were in the heads of the other teams, especially the Dodgers, who on paper were a better team then the Yankees.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly.  I get so SICK ot the 'numbers...numbers....numbers....annnnnnnd.....numbers' argument.  You can take Pujols, Beltran etc etc........I'll take the 3 time champ that has done something NO OTHER Sox player has done in forever, and did it in HUGE fashion.  I prefer to remember Champions.....not stats.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]Jim Rice was a better player & it took him 15 years !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Can you explain and SHOW all of us how Rice was a better player than Ortiz Bill?  Jim Rice was my favorite Sox player of all time by the way....so I would not diss on him.....I'm VERY curious how you come up with your thoughts.  Other than saying he played left field and Ortiz is a DH (way to easy and weak an out), show us how Rice was the superior player.

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]Jim Rice was a better player & it took him 15 years !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Can you explain and SHOW all of us how Rice was a better player than Ortiz Bill?  Jim Rice was my favorite Sox player of all time by the way....so I would not diss on him.....I'm VERY curious how you come up with your thoughts.  Other than saying he played left field and Ortiz is a DH (way to easy and weak an out), show us how Rice was the superior player.

    [/QUOTE]

    No way is Bill able to handle that job.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]Jim Rice was a better player & it took him 15 years !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Can you explain and SHOW all of us how Rice was a better player than Ortiz Bill?  Jim Rice was my favorite Sox player of all time by the way....so I would not diss on him.....I'm VERY curious how you come up with your thoughts.  Other than saying he played left field and Ortiz is a DH (way to easy and weak an out), show us how Rice was the superior player.

    [/QUOTE]Two reasons......   1/ He was a better player ..... 2/ He is in the HOF  !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Bill......I'll give you one more chance to save some face.  Can you EXPLAIN how he's a better player by not saying something lame.  For real.  This is a discussion forum.  Give it a shot....

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    Thomas started 968 games at 1st base.
    Ortiz 250

    Didn't injuries have a impact on him going to DH? He should have won a Gold Glove in 92.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]Jim Rice was a better player & it took him 15 years !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Can you explain and SHOW all of us how Rice was a better player than Ortiz Bill?  Jim Rice was my favorite Sox player of all time by the way....so I would not diss on him.....I'm VERY curious how you come up with your thoughts.  Other than saying he played left field and Ortiz is a DH (way to easy and weak an out), show us how Rice was the superior player.

    [/QUOTE]Two reasons......   1/ He was a better player ..... 2/ He is in the HOF  !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Bill......I'll give you one more chance to save some face.  Can you EXPLAIN how he's a better player by not saying something lame.  For real.  This is a discussion forum.  Give it a shot....

    [/QUOTE]You need to ask ???  Did you ever see Jim Rice play ????   Read my print RICE WAS A MUCH BETTER HITTER, RUNNER,POWER, and not a bad left fielder !!! 


    [/QUOTE]


    Well.....I'll go against what I just said in a prior post and show you that Ortiz has better number overall than Rice other than lifetime batting average.  Ortiz has more HR's, about the same RBI's, higher OPS, OBP, SLG and more doubles.  Sorry... Rice is not the better hitter.

    Also....you talk speed and how Ortiz gets into double plays....  Rice has 315 double plays.....Ortiz has 180.  Soooooooo.....does that mean that Rice is not as good a runner??  Or does it mean that Ortiz was better in the clutch??  Interesting.


    Sorry Bill......you're wrong.  And yes....I did see Rice play as he was my favorite Sox player.  I also saw Yaz play a huge part of his career to give you an idea of my age.....  I'm not a spring chicken.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]Jim Rice was a better player & it took him 15 years !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Can you explain and SHOW all of us how Rice was a better player than Ortiz Bill?  Jim Rice was my favorite Sox player of all time by the way....so I would not diss on him.....I'm VERY curious how you come up with your thoughts.  Other than saying he played left field and Ortiz is a DH (way to easy and weak an out), show us how Rice was the superior player.

    [/QUOTE]Two reasons......   1/ He was a better player ..... 2/ He is in the HOF  !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Bill......I'll give you one more chance to save some face.  Can you EXPLAIN how he's a better player by not saying something lame.  For real.  This is a discussion forum.  Give it a shot....

    [/QUOTE]You need to ask ???  Did you ever see Jim Rice play ????   Read my print RICE WAS A MUCH BETTER HITTER, RUNNER,POWER, and not a bad left fielder !!! 


    [/QUOTE]


    Well.....I'll go against what I just said in a prior post and show you that Ortiz has better number overall than Rice other than lifetime batting average.  Ortiz has more HR's, about the same RBI's, higher OPS, OBP, SLG and more doubles.  Sorry... Rice is not the better hitter.

    Also....you talk speed and how Ortiz gets into double plays....  Rice has 315 double plays.....Ortiz has 180.  Soooooooo.....does that mean that Rice is not as good a runner??  Or does it mean that Ortiz was better in the clutch??  Interesting.


    Sorry Bill......you're wrong.  And yes....I did see Rice play as he was my favorite Sox player.  I also saw Yaz play a huge part of his career to give you an idea of my age.....  I'm not a spring chicken.

    [/QUOTE]

    that's what we call a "getting PWN'D" in my generation

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]Jim Rice was a better player & it took him 15 years !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Can you explain and SHOW all of us how Rice was a better player than Ortiz Bill?  Jim Rice was my favorite Sox player of all time by the way....so I would not diss on him.....I'm VERY curious how you come up with your thoughts.  Other than saying he played left field and Ortiz is a DH (way to easy and weak an out), show us how Rice was the superior player.

    [/QUOTE]Two reasons......   1/ He was a better player ..... 2/ He is in the HOF  !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Bill......I'll give you one more chance to save some face.  Can you EXPLAIN how he's a better player by not saying something lame.  For real.  This is a discussion forum.  Give it a shot....

    [/QUOTE]You need to ask ???  Did you ever see Jim Rice play ????   Read my print RICE WAS A MUCH BETTER HITTER, RUNNER,POWER, and not a bad left fielder !!! 


    [/QUOTE]


    Well.....I'll go against what I just said in a prior post and show you that Ortiz has better number overall than Rice other than lifetime batting average.  Ortiz has more HR's, about the same RBI's, higher OPS, OBP, SLG and more doubles.  Sorry... Rice is not the better hitter.

    Also....you talk speed and how Ortiz gets into double plays....  Rice has 315 double plays.....Ortiz has 180.  Soooooooo.....does that mean that Rice is not as good a runner??  Or does it mean that Ortiz was better in the clutch??  Interesting.


    Sorry Bill......you're wrong.  And yes....I did see Rice play as he was my favorite Sox player.  I also saw Yaz play a huge part of his career to give you an idea of my age.....  I'm not a spring chicken.

    [/QUOTE]


    Rice was a really good left fielder.  He also played in an era when there wasn't time for diva's in the sport.  I have heard jim say that in a double header he often wore the same spikes, and sometimes they would be wet from the first game.

    Rice also played before the steroid era and also played for the sox when they did not have a billionare owner.  It isn't always about numbers.  Rice would have been elected to the hall earlier if not for some idiott writers and reporters. 

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Rice was a really good left fielder.  He also played in an era when there wasn't time for diva's in the sport.  I have heard jim say that in a double header he often wore the same spikes, and sometimes they would be wet from the first game.

    Rice also played before the steroid era and also played for the sox when they did not have a billionare owner.  It isn't always about numbers.  Rice would have been elected to the hall earlier if not for some idiot writers and reporters. 

     

    [/QUOTE] and that guy to his left wasn't too shabby Wink


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: a plus for Big Papi??

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Ortiz has a much better career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, walked much less, struke out much more often, has less 100 RBI seasons and scores far less runs per season.  Ortiz also has better overall numbers in the post season as well in all areas that count.  Jackson has two silver sluggers, Ortiz six.

     

    who else in baseball has been more famous than Big Papi besides those guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    Its unfair to compare different players from different era's in raw stats. If so, how bout the fact Edgar Renteria hit more homers then anybody in the first 50 years of baseball. Does that make him a good home run hitter. Or better then Honus Wagner?

    Its better to compare players from the same era. Reggie Jackson in his 12 season prime lead all of baseball in offensive WAR and wRC+. Number 1. Papi's best 12 seasons have him ranked 6th in offensive WAR and 8th in wRC+. Jackson was a better offensive player then Papi.

    Your fame point is a much better one.

    [/QUOTE]

    He is famous because he is arguably the best post-season hitter of all-time, statistically and anecdotally.  That is indeed what puts him in the Hall.  His numbers are borderline by the measure of any era.  But his October exploits are unparalled.  It is difficult to even find comparables.  A unique standard for sure.  But Papi goes in with no problem because there might be a sniveling voter or two that say "oh, but look at his career WAR.  Sorrt, numbers are numbers".  But, the vast majority check yes on the grounds that he is BIG PAPI.

     

    [/QUOTE]Jim Rice was a better player & it took him 15 years !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Can you explain and SHOW all of us how Rice was a better player than Ortiz Bill?  Jim Rice was my favorite Sox player of all time by the way....so I would not diss on him.....I'm VERY curious how you come up with your thoughts.  Other than saying he played left field and Ortiz is a DH (way to easy and weak an out), show us how Rice was the superior player.

    [/QUOTE]Two reasons......   1/ He was a better player ..... 2/ He is in the HOF  !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    Bill......I'll give you one more chance to save some face.  Can you EXPLAIN how he's a better player by not saying something lame.  For real.  This is a discussion forum.  Give it a shot....

    [/QUOTE]You need to ask ???  Did you ever see Jim Rice play ????   Read my print RICE WAS A MUCH BETTER HITTER, RUNNER,POWER, and not a bad left fielder !!! 


    [/QUOTE]


    Well.....I'll go against what I just said in a prior post and show you that Ortiz has better number overall than Rice other than lifetime batting average.  Ortiz has more HR's, about the same RBI's, higher OPS, OBP, SLG and more doubles.  Sorry... Rice is not the better hitter.

    Also....you talk speed and how Ortiz gets into double plays....  Rice has 315 double plays.....Ortiz has 180.  Soooooooo.....does that mean that Rice is not as good a runner??  Or does it mean that Ortiz was better in the clutch??  Interesting.


    Sorry Bill......you're wrong.  And yes....I did see Rice play as he was my favorite Sox player.  I also saw Yaz play a huge part of his career to give you an idea of my age.....  I'm not a spring chicken.

    [/QUOTE]


    Rice was a really good left fielder.  He also played in an era when there wasn't time for diva's in the sport.  I have heard jim say that in a double header he often wore the same spikes, and sometimes they would be wet from the first game.

    Rice also played before the steroid era and also played for the sox when they did not have a billionare owner.  It isn't always about numbers.  Rice would have been elected to the hall earlier if not for some idiott writers and reporters. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree on Rice.  But other than he notion that it isnt always about the numbers, comparing Rice to Ortiz is apples and oranges.  Again, Papi isnt going in because of his career numbers.  He isn't going in because he is an unbelievable hitter (I personally think Rice was a much better hitter overall).  Ortiz is going in because he is Roy Hobbs when the big lights are shining.  The closest comp is Reggie of course.  But Jackson was not the post-season beast that Ortiz is.  He just had some huge moments/games.  There has never been a Mr. October like Big Papi.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share