A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Great come from behind win, in what was a cold and damp and windy ugly played baseball game. Oriole outfield defense was terrible, and Crawford continues to mail it in. Aceves made the difference, and I'd rather see any AAA young profile with options get some innings invested and take a spot start or two until the pen can get Aceves and Atchison some down time. The good news is I don't see management being stupid enough to extend Wakefield, so the Red Sox end is mercifully drawing to a close. Need a rainout or cold wind blowing in with great force.

    While the focus on Lowrie will be the double that was booted and ruled a triple, few will notice that Lowrie did a belly flop on a routine double play ball that cost 2 runs.
     
    While the focus will be on Varitek's two slap singles, few will notice that he had yet another passed ball that was ruled a passed ball. Boog Powell could steal on Varitek.

    Buck used all his bullets and still lost. Very important for the Red Sox to get Britton early enough to get back into the pen early. He has a big pretender team, but has done a good job improving their confidence and performance.

    The Red Sox continue to be terrible up the middle on defense. Varitek better be used sparingly or he'll hit the DL for the last time. Lowrie is a ghost of a SS, playing as if there isn't a SS out there.

    The team has the offense, but both short and long term, urgently needs to improve itself up the middle. Frankly, the catcher and SS and CF'er are like a AAA team that has been depleted with MLB call-ups.

    Was quite simple to start Salty in AAA, resign VMart and a weak hitting but very solid mobile defensive catcher who throws well and blocks and catch pitches well.

    AGon is a true superstar who was acquired at precisely the right time.   

    Long term, the team needs to get a solid young RH slugging corner OF'er.

    The defensive SS is already in-house and has to be the obvious 2012 everyday plan, even for someone as SS dense as Theo.

    Lowrie's splits are getting larger and v. RHP is BA .259 and 6 extra base hits and zero homers. If he was marginal at SS on defense, perhaps the v. LHP stats would provide some factual basis to make him the everday SS. The belly flop on the tailor-made DP is all the reason to return Lowrie to a platoon v. LHP starters UIF role. 

    Remember, Salty hit a Yankee Stadium homer and Tek had two opposite field hits in one game. That doesn't change how weak this team is up the middle. Strong offense, 3 starters going well, a pen with more than enough to get the job done. Why continue to put a weak middle defense out there, everyday, when the rest of the team is primed and strong? Why, indeed.

    Francona blunder in the 7th inning, not pinch running for Varitek. Either Cameron or Mac would have easily gone to 3rd on the Bellsbury single to RF and scored, with one out, on the Pedroia line out to LF. Scott has shoulder issues and threw a wounded duck on the Pedroia score from 1st on the AGon game ending double.  

    Above .500, it's about time.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    You had 4 true sentences out of that whole shebang.
    Most in the first paragraph.

    The rest was biased drivel.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    How many games has he started so far as a catcher Harness? Maybe 10? 
    I'm not going to take the time to look it up because it is relatively meaningless to cite that small a sample size anyway I would think. 

    The guy is hitting .330 with 23 RBIS as compared to our catcher's hitting a collective .200 with like 14 RBIs ( together ). How bad would he have to be defensively to be worse than the worse tandem in the league in throwing out runners? To manage a pitching staff 12th in the league in ERA.

    I like you a lot Harness and respect your opinions immensely. I just think there were some alternative scenarios this winter which made more sense. Ortiz has done very well so far so a case could be made for me being wrong about picking up his option but what if we had just kept the $12.5 mil and the type B pick Ortiz represented, signed Martinez and slotted him as part time catcher / DH for the next 4 years. When Martinez was catching maybe Lowrie or Cameron could slot in at DH ( or played in the field for someone else to be DH ). It would have given us a much better catching solution and if needed we could pick up a solid DH for 6-7 mil at some point down the road.

    I sincerely admire and respect Crawford but signing Crawford for $142 mil caused us to have to live with the worst catching tandem in baseball this year. Victor / Tek would almost definitely be better than Salty / Tek IMO. It's not even close.

    Crawford will eventually get hot and hit but he is not, I repeat NOT, a gold glove left fielder IMO. He just messes up way too often. Would you rather have Fuld in LF, or Gardner in LF defensively? Of course anyone would if they have watched those guys play this year, as compared to Crawford.

    We could have let Ortiz go, traded for Agon and even kept Beltre at 3rd and had Youk be our DH / 3rd base and 1st base sub. Without the Crawford signing we had plenty of money to land Cliff Lee or another top pitcher.

    Redsox management had money burning a hole in their pocket and they blew it. Fortunately we should be good enough to win this year anyway. 
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Oh, there were alternative scenarios this last winter, Boom.
    Several here wanted what you chose. And I agree with you in that the CC contract will be an albatross.

    I felt the team would make a prime run for AGONE (got the timing wrong) and CC or possibly Werth. Too much data against VMART to bring him back, although I loved his attitude and his bat when he got hot. He was a streaky hitter. In fact, he did nothing last year until around mid-May.

    If it were just about his hitting, no way the team let's a perfect bridge to the farm go. Not a .300 hitting catcher with power. No way. As you said, at 32, he could catch for two years and then DH. It would give the team leverage should Papi walk.

    This Henry regime is pretty bright. For them to pass on a gamer like VMART - you know they had damn good reason. It's as obvious as a day is long that they were no longer wanted him catching this pitching staff.

    If other GM's saw it differently, they'd have pounced on such a viable commodity. Especially given the shortage of really good hitting catchers. Look how two outfielders were vastly overpaid.

    Why didn't other GM's sign him as their catcher?
    You have to ask yourself why a catcher with his bat is now a DH who doubles as a back-up catcher. There's a reason for it, Boom. If you won't take my word for his inefficiency with a pitching staff, perhaps you'll take theirs...
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    Oh, there were alternative scenarios this last winter, Boom . Several here wanted what you chose. And I agree with you in that the CC contract will be an albatross. I felt the team would make a prime run for AGONE (got the timing wrong) and CC or possibly Werth. Too much data against VMART to bring him back, although I loved his attitude and his bat when he got hot. He was a streaky hitter. In fact, he did nothing last year until around mid-May. If it were just about his hitting, no way the team let's a perfect bridge to the farm go. Not a .300 hitting catcher with power. No way. As you said, at 32, he could catch for two years and then DH. It would give the team leverage should Papi walk. This Henry regime is pretty bright. For them to pass on a gamer like VMART - you know they had damn good reason. It's as obvious as a day is long that they were no longer wanted him catching this pitching staff. If other GM's saw it differently, they'd have pounced on such a viable commodity. Especially given the shortage of really good hitting catchers. Look how two outfielders were vastly overpaid. Why didn't other GM's sign him as their catcher ? You have to ask yourself why a catcher with his bat is now a DH who doubles as a back-up catcher. There's a reason for it, Boom . If you won't take my word for his inefficiency with a pitching staff, perhaps you'll take theirs...
    Posted by harness


    Just to add to that, in 2009 before the Red Sox acquired him, the Indians were already transitioning Victor to catching only 50% of the time, with the light-hitting Shoppach catching 50%.  So the data and the decision-making by other teams is all there.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Plus, the idea was to use VMart at DH vs LHPs, meaning he'd have to catch 60% or more (not a good idea) and maybe a handful of games at 1B. Papi has done well vs LHPs thus far this year (.913). When a LH'er starts, the numbers are beginning to return to the norm: .871 vs RH/.823 vs LH.

    VMart would not have "solved" the catching position. The jury is still out on VMart's value as a DH on the tail end of his contract, and throwing Papi to the wolves, so VMart could take over his role would have been premature.

    As everyone know, I was strongly against the Crawford signing from the minute it was made, but I do not think a quarter of a season is enough to make any final judgements on. I was not a big VMart fan, but I did think Theo could have offered the few million more to get him instead of Crawford. I do not think Theo would have used the remaining money to sign a top pitcher. It's hard to see where he might have spent it... maybe another pen arm and a second tier OF'er like Ordonez.

    Boom, it's not about the small sample size numbers of VMart as a catcher, it's about the very fact that he has been slotted as a catcher only 10 games...for a reason.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II




    May 16, 2011 - Do not forget how you felt on that day.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    I felt great, but I was never down on this year's team even through the early tough times. It wasn't about homeriosm either, it's about looking at this team on paper and knowing they were better than how they played in early April. 162 games is a long season, and I suspect we will have more droughts and the wagon jumpers will return, but the Sox, barring major injuries, will make the playoffs.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Softy, the "tailor-made" double play ball might have been turned by a handful of the all-time greats, and that's all. A better ranging SS would have gotten to the ball, kept it in the infield and maybe gotten one out. Ours did neither, but he played a key role in two rallies, and that's the trade-off the management team is making for now. Most of us here admittedly view this team through rose colored glasses, while you, the great contrarian, continue to view them through your $hit-colored glasses. Why, I'll never know.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    VMart has left the building, the Tigers saw the value in having him largely be a DH and a back-up catcher who could also back up 1B. It extends his career and they had needs in the three spots. IMO both the Tigers and Indians were looking to extend Victor's shelf life by doing this and perhaps in equal parts of having the spots on the line-up card to do it and not being wowed by his play behind the plate.

    Harness with all due respect Jason Varitek WAS a patient hitter that was a sucker for the high fastball out of zone when he was 36. Most nights this year he has been tragically late on fastballs where ever they are thrown, way in front of anything off speed because he was cheating to to catch up to heat. When a guy is 39 whether his name is Varitek or Posada his career offensive stats are more a representation of the past than an indicator of the near future. I think even Tek would tell you over a beer and off of the record that he is a shadow of the player he was in 2004 and in 2007 he was already a lesser player than he was in 2004. Does every comment about Tek warrant an impassioned response? Personally I think at some point certain folks know it is your soft under belly and if those folks are inclined to play with people, they jump all over it.

    As far as Crawford goes, I don't thnk the money could have gone to a pitcher because after Lee there just wasn't a banner crop and it doesn't take much of a leap to come to the conclusion that if he chose Philly over Ny and Texas he would have chosen Philly over us too. So the RS likely would have had to keep their powder dry.

    Boom, get used to the stealing stat. The team does not hold runners well except for Buch and sometimes you wish he wouldn't becausde he is as likely to bury the ball in the stands as make a pick-off. With Wake pitching more the number will rise not shrink. Salty is erratic and Tek just isn't any good any more at executing the throw.

    As for the offense over the course of 162 games I think the catching tandem is very capable of putting up the type of offense that guys like an off year Alex Gonzalez, Adam Everett or what Jose Inglesias is likely to put up. Not great considering neither guys glove work is electric but it is what it is. I really do think that the RS can carry the weakness at catcher, so long as over 162 the rest of the starters play near to or above their career averages.

    What I don't think we will see is a rotation of "project" or "hunch" of the month catchers in Salty's slot. Patience is in order. Salty and the staff are learning to work with each other and no matter what people think of the literal application of pitcher ERA to a catcher's relevance, I think absent of entrenched debate positioning we'd all agree that familiarity between pitcher and catcher is a plus while a lack of it is not.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    No matter how you cut it, VMart would have helped us this year as compared to the Salty/Tek combo. We are now playing Tek more than he's probably able to withstand. Salty has not given any, I repeat ANY, indication of being a starting level catcher for years now to the point of being let go for a bunch of A level players last year by Texas. Maybe we can carry Salty as our offense is strong. Maybe we should be patient as the alternatives are bleak and a larger sample and regular playing time for an extended period might enable him to show improved value. I grant all of that. It's a prudent choice. I think some of you are missing my point. It is fairly clear from the data, that Salty is not the solution going forward. That is the point. The sooner we recognize that the better.

    Virtually everyone here thought letting go of VMart made sense last winter. They did appear to try to keep him as they made an offer but it wasn't a priority. They rolled the dice with Salty and wanted to buy that shiny new object in the form of Crawford at a ridiculous price. They gambled. VMart was run out of town due in part to catcher CERA. Now we have a guy whose catcher ERA is a run higher than VMArts and he's hitting 130 points lower with virtually no power and lots of you guys appear to think that was an ok decision. How can I even discuss such intransigence? It is OBVIOUS VMart was a better catcher solution than Salty. 

    Katz, familiarity between pitchers and catcher is very important but when Martinez first came over they slotted him in the lineup and the team went on a tear. I agree that it is important but it is an obstacle which can be overcome.

    As Theo has stated several times now, it is very hard to trade in May. We are going to have to wait until near the July deadline probably to make a move. Hopefully by then it will not be necessary but nothing in the past several year's data indicates that this problem will go away. It's like Bill Hall last year. It was 3 years in a row of major downward trending. Expectations were low so when he gave us some positive performance everyone was saying great and that he was a good value. Now he's tanking again, in Houston no less, the easiest place in baseball for a RH hitter to hit a HR. Both Amp and I, two men well over 50, could probably hit it out in Houston at least in batting practice. When there is extensive data and the trends are really bad we need to pay attention and plan ahead. It's been several years now with Salty. It isn't just this year.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    Great come from behind win, in what was a cold and damp and windy ugly played baseball game. Oriole outfield defense was terrible, and Crawford continues to mail it in. Aceves made the difference, and I'd rather see any AAA young profile with options get some innings invested and take a spot start or two until the pen can get Aceves and Atchison some down time. The good news is I don't see management being stupid enough to extend Wakefield, so the Red Sox end is mercifully drawing to a close. Need a rainout or cold wind blowing in with great force. While the focus on Lowrie will be the double that was booted and ruled a triple, few will notice that Lowrie did a belly flop on a routine double play ball that cost 2 runs.   While the focus will be on Varitek's two slap singles, few will notice that he had yet another passed ball that was ruled a passed ball. Boog Powell could steal on Varitek. Buck used all his bullets and still lost. Very important for the Red Sox to get Britton early enough to get back into the pen early. He has a big pretender team, but has done a good job improving their confidence and performance. The Red Sox continue to be terrible up the middle on defense. Varitek better be used sparingly or he'll hit the DL for the last time. Lowrie is a ghost of a SS, playing as if there isn't a SS out there. The team has the offense, but both short and long term, urgently needs to improve itself up the middle. Frankly, the catcher and SS and CF'er are like a AAA team that has been depleted with MLB call-ups. Was quite simple to start Salty in AAA, resign VMart and a weak hitting but very solid mobile defensive catcher who throws well and blocks and catch pitches well. AGon is a true superstar who was acquired at precisely the right time.    Long term, the team needs to get a solid young RH slugging corner OF'er. The defensive SS is already in-house and has to be the obvious 2012 everyday plan, even for someone as SS dense as Theo. Lowrie's splits are getting larger and v. RHP is BA .259 and 6 extra base hits and zero homers. If he was marginal at SS on defense, perhaps the v. LHP stats would provide some factual basis to make him the everday SS. The belly flop on the tailor-made DP is all the reason to return Lowrie to a platoon v. LHP starters UIF role.  Remember, Salty hit a Yankee Stadium homer and Tek had two opposite field hits in one game. That doesn't change how weak this team is up the middle. Strong offense, 3 starters going well, a pen with more than enough to get the job done. Why continue to put a weak middle defense out there, everyday, when the rest of the team is primed and strong? Why, indeed. Francona blunder in the 7th inning, not pinch running for Varitek. Either Cameron or Mac would have easily gone to 3rd on the Bellsbury single to RF and scored, with one out, on the Pedroia line out to LF. Scott has shoulder issues and threw a wounded duck on the Pedroia score from 1st on the AGon game ending double.   Above .500, it's about time.
    Posted by majorleague

    we are very lucky to have two great young players like ellsbury-avg302 and lowrie  avg 320 and they have made some great plays in the field alsoWink
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    No matter how you cut it, VMart would have helped us this year as compared to the Salty/Tek combo. We are now playing Tek more than he's probably able to withstand. Salty has not given any, I repeat ANY, indication of being a starting level catcher for years now to the point of being let go for a bunch of A level players last year by Texas. Maybe we can carry Salty as our offense is strong. Maybe we should be patient as the alternatives are bleak and a larger sample and regular playing time for an extended period might enable him to show improved value. I grant all of that. It's a prudent choice. I think some of you are missing my point. It is fairly clear from the data, that Salty is not the solution going forward. That is the point. The sooner we recognize that the better. Virtually everyone here thought letting go of VMart made sense last winter. They did appear to try to keep him as they made an offer but it wasn't a priority. They rolled the dice with Salty and wanted to buy that shiny new object in the form of Crawford at a ridiculous price. They gambled. VMart was run out of town due in part to catcher CERA. Now we have a guy whose catcher ERA is a run higher than VMArts and he's hitting 130 points lower with virtually no power and lots of you guys appear to think that was an ok decision. How can I even discuss such intransigence? It is OBVIOUS VMart was a better catcher solution than Salty.  Katz, familiarity between pitchers and catcher is very important but when Martinez first came over they slotted him in the lineup and the team went on a tear. I agree that it is important but it is an obstacle which can be overcome. As Theo has stated several times now, it is very hard to trade in May. We are going to have to wait until near the July deadline probably to make a move. Hopefully by then it will not be necessary but nothing in the past several year's data indicates that this problem will go away. It's like Bill Hall last year. It was 3 years in a row of major downward trending. Expectations were low so when he gave us some positive performance everyone was saying great and that he was a good value. Now he's tanking again, in Houston no less, the easiest place in baseball for a RH hitter to hit a HR. Both Amp and I, two men well over 50, could probably hit it out in Houston at least in batting practice. When there is extensive data and the trends are really bad we need to pay attention and plan ahead. It's been several years now with Salty. It isn't just this year.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
    Boom, I would not begin to argue that the Rs would have been better off this year with VMart than not. I don't think that was ever the issue, I'll leave that to others. But it was a question of paying for 4 years for 2 years in RS view IMO. Right decision or not it is what it is. VMart's situation cleared so quickly in the off season that it was apparent that the RS set a value limit on their bidding and Detroit exceed it. Crawford and being able to pull off a trade for A-Gon weren't sure things at all yet so IMO Crawford has more to do with Vmart's departure on talk shows and forums like this than it did in the RS hot stove realities.

    Keep in mind that you are basing your conclusion about Salty based on 88 PA's in a RS uniform. Prior to that Jarrod has been a .700 OPS - .250 hitter in the majors. And that is slightly above league average (8 catchers with 400 PAs in 2010 had a .700 OPS or better). The RS were blessed for many years to have great all around catcher in Tek but that is not the norm in MLB, never has been and the supply certainly hasn't improved.

    One last thought on when VMart arrived. The offense clearly jump started and keep in mind that Victor caught 33 games and played 1st for 23 games for Lowell. And Victor's bat is not what the RS are going to get in a mid-year trade best I can tell.

    After all Victor is an .840 OPS catcher. Last year 3 guys had a OPS over .840 and none of those guys are getting traded to the RS. (Ruiz, Mauer and Possey). Call me crazy but the RS will get more offense from the catching position than they have through mid-May. And if it is slightly below league average so long as the corner OFers produce the amount of offense the RS will generate from the corner IF and support cast will give the RS enough runs scored I think.

    Now you may be right but you certainly are cutting bait quick on Salty, unusual for you so I do take heed when the head cheerleader for kids thinks a kid hasn't got it. I sincerely hope you are wrong because there is not an easy erjector button if the catchers are going to crash. 
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    There isn't anything "great" about Bellsbury and Lowrie. On defense, it's quite poor. Take a look at the Lowrie season splits v. RHP, and the Bellsbury season splits v LHP. Just so you have the full information before calling them "great". 

    The bellyflop play, Jid, was not as you falsely described it. It was a routine DP ball for most MLB SS's. As you admit, take off your red colored glasses. The ball bounces just in front of home plate and then takes a 2nd bounce behind the pitchers mound and Lowrie is there but does a belly fllop in a panic instead of just sliding on the left knee and turning the double play that Pedroia thought would be turned. 

    http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=14862515

    Jid, you need to simply look at both sides of baseball, instead of just one aspect. You also need to look at Lowrie's splits v. RHP, for a perspective on the other side of the ball. He's just now starting the early grind that will peak in dog days. Let's see where he is during dog days, assuming they make the mistake of chaning his role where he should platoon v. LH starting pitching and pinch hit from the bench. Why spend 6 million for Scutaro and then cart Lowrie out as an everyday SS when he does well in the other role of platoon SS/UIF and days off. We agree to disagree. Is that OK;) 
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Take a close look at Lowrie's K v. BB ratio v. RHP.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    Just imagine if Lackey and Dice go on the DL at once, Wake is surely a btter bet than anyone other than Aceves. You are right about Aceves fitting the middle relief role so well.
    Posted by moonslav59
    Sadly it took 12 hours for that to happen.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Keep in mind that you are basing your conclusion about Salty based on 88 PA's in a RS uniform. Prior to that Jarrod has been a .700 OPS - .250 hitter in the majors. And that is slightly above league average (8 catchers with 400 PAs in 2010 had a .700 OPS or better).

    Even more telling is the fact that Salty had pretty decent numbers vs RHPsup until this year, and Tek had been very good vs LHPs. I had hoped it would have been a L/R platoon, but it has become a caddy platoon. (I'm not saying I was right: it appears VTek and Beckett have something going beyond what Tek can do on offense.)
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion%3a9c96abc8-b965-40eb-a1b5-55a2babfd458&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion:9c96abc8-b965-40eb-a1b5-55a2babfd458Post:f0957bea-bef3-42ee-9a83-ee692818922c">Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    Just imagine if Lackey and Dice go on the DL at once, Wake is surely a btter bet than anyone other than Aceves. You are right about Aceves fitting the middle relief role so well.
    Posted by moonslav59
    Sadly it took 12 hours for that to happen.

    The writing was on the wall.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Sending Lackey and Matsuzaka to the DL was clearly warranted though. It was predictable as several of us at least predicted a Lackey move after the last start and that is exactly what happened. And after Matsuzaka's last 7 walk start, he got moved now to the DL as well. The Sox are not playing around this year. And Francona may not be as in control of things as he has been in the past. They are moving quick on issues. Francona's veteran loyalty approach is taking a hit.

    But we don't really have lots of guys stretched out. I think the Bowden move is temporary. They probably go with Doubront or Duckworth in his place soon but they will get some use out of Bowden in the interim. 

    They won't bring him up soon but Chris Hernandez sure looks like a fast mover down in A ball. He was drafted last year, and started at a higher level than Ranaudo and is now blowing past Ranaudo's ERA numbers at least. Maybe he doesn't have mlb level stuff but he probably ends up at least a solid LH reliever. All he does is keep putting up great numbers. We will see how long that lasts. 

    Salty spent almost all of last year in AAA ball and collectively hit around .250 in over 300 AB. In AAA ball. All last year. That's not good. 

    The year before he hit .233 with the Rangers, in over 300 AB again with a walk rate of 7.1%, or dramatically less than he had achieved earlier in his career.

    This year he is hitting .217 in 88 AB with a walk rate of around 5%. That's several years in a row of really bad hitting in over 700 AB, including a lot of those AB in AAA ball. He hasn't hit for a while now.   

     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Looks like Bowden might be here only until Wheeler is back Friday. Hopefully he impresses them this time. I think he can help us as a reliever. We have a lot of depth at reliever this year and he's part of it.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    I'm ready to start the Bengie Molina watch now. What do you give it....1 week or 2? Tongue out
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    VMart has left the building, the Tigers saw the value in having him largely be a DH and a back-up catcher who could also back up 1B. It extends his career and they had needs in the three spots. IMO both the Tigers and Indians were looking to extend Victor's shelf life by doing this and perhaps in equal parts of having the spots on the line-up card to do it and not being wowed by his play behind the plate. Harness with all due respect Jason Varitek WAS a patient hitter that was a sucker for the high fastball out of zone when he was 36. Most nights this year he has been tragically late on fastballs where ever they are thrown, way in front of anything off speed because he was cheating to to catch up to heat. When a guy is 39 whether his name is Varitek or Posada his career offensive stats are more a representation of the past than an indicator of the near future. I think even Tek would tell you over a beer and off of the record that he is a shadow of the player he was in 2004 and in 2007 he was already a lesser player than he was in 2004. Does every comment about Tek warrant an impassioned response? Personally I think at some point certain folks know it is your soft under belly and if those folks are inclined to play with people, they jump all over it. As far as Crawford goes, I don't thnk the money could have gone to a pitcher because after Lee there just wasn't a banner crop and it doesn't take much of a leap to come to the conclusion that if he chose Philly over Ny and Texas he would have chosen Philly over us too. So the RS likely would have had to keep their powder dry. Boom, get used to the stealing stat. The team does not hold runners well except for Buch and sometimes you wish he wouldn't becausde he is as likely to bury the ball in the stands as make a pick-off. With Wake pitching more the number will rise not shrink. Salty is erratic and Tek just isn't any good any more at executing the throw. As for the offense over the course of 162 games I think the catching tandem is very capable of putting up the type of offense that guys like an off year Alex Gonzalez, Adam Everett or what Jose Inglesias is likely to put up. Not great considering neither guys glove work is electric but it is what it is. I really do think that the RS can carry the weakness at catcher, so long as over 162 the rest of the starters play near to or above their career averages. What I don't think we will see is a rotation of "project" or "hunch" of the month catchers in Salty's slot. Patience is in order. Salty and the staff are learning to work with each other and no matter what people think of the literal application of pitcher ERA to a catcher's relevance, I think absent of entrenched debate positioning we'd all agree that familiarity between pitcher and catcher is a plus while a lack of it is not.
    Posted by fivekatz



    Correction Katz: Tek has been a sucker for the high heat throughout his career.
    It didn't start at age 36. Injuries/age have heavily contributed to his lack of hitting. Tek has an undercut swing and a body meant for a power hitter. He's never been a punch-and-Judy hitter.

    As you saw last night, he's still quite capable of shortening his swing to deliver a base hit when the situation dictates. But seeing him revert to a slap-hitter to make more contact and up his BA is senseless. He's a DP in the making. He's never given hitting the time it requires. He prioritizes time spent working other hitters.

    Boom is right when he says VMART would have been an upgrade over Salty...at this point. Of course, how VMART would hit while managing catching duties all year - and how healthy he'd stay given the demands of the position - is another issue.
    And having VMART means we don't have CC. So, would CAM FT (which affects Drew) or another bridge be the answer?

    I do agree with you that any call on Salty right now is quite premature. VMART had a history of short-changing a pitching staff. Salty's history in this regard is still open to question. And while familiarity is nice, it's much more about communication skills and ability to set-up hitters.

    Luv that pic! I have two of my own.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Vtek is 5 for his last 13 and Salty is 3 for his last 8. Let's hope this small sample morphs into an extended upswing.

    In VTek's first year he had 3 of his first 4 months under .237, including under .200 for May and June combined. The next year, he started the season with 2 of the first 3 months under .233.

    The Sox also had a better ERA when Hatteberg caught over VTek (4.10 to 4.29) and the same in 1999 (3.13 to 3.98). VTek was 26-27 back then and we didn't give up on him quickly.

    The sample size is small but getting bigger. Let's give him a little slack and see what happens.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    I believe the bench was calling signs back then. Not Tek.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    harness, I think it is fair to assume that if we didn't get CC, we'd have gotten someone else (probably someone from tyhe right side) and for much cheaper and shorter term. The Ordonez or Willingham options appear to have been dead ends thus far.

    I do think an OF like this would have been fine, as long as the CC money was spent to upgrade elsewhere.

    LF: Ellsbury (Kalsih)
    CF: Cameron/Kalish (Ellsbury)
    RF: Drew/Cameron (Reddick)

    As you know, I think the CC deal was horrible, but he will do better than what we have seen thus far.
     
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