A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Compare his targets to that of Tek.
    Both make last second maneuvering, but Tek then keeps his target stationary for as long as possible.

    Salty's target is much too brief, IMO.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Half a season is too much a price to pay. I wouldn't go anywhere near that long.

     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II : Is there actually a facet of his game to like?
    Posted by DasBabe.[/QUOTE]

    Not from what I've seen. He seems to have  good physical skills and may in fact be very good in several elements of his game down the road.


    I can only go by what I'm seeing now.
    This may be a painfully slow process and I don't think Boston is in a position to be this patient.

    It's not like Mo of Paps busting onto the scene. The position of catcher has several dynamics. Even some the great ones had rough rookie seasons in many ways.
    The concern is: Salty is not a rookie.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Let's see what Youkzales can do...
    or...
    Pedroikilis
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    The early positives (there aren't many) are that Ortiz clearly is not going to be awful out the gate this year unlike 09 and 10. The core of the bullpen aside from Bard's absolute meltdown in the opener and Papelbon's load em up strike out the side appearance on Sunday looks strong. And it looks like Francona has found a role for Wakefield in between spot starts

    For first appearances I thought that Buch and Beckett were OK (with run support those guys pitched winnable games), Lester had typical Lester April starts and Lackey.. well he got taken to the woodshed and was beaten like he stole something.

    Concerns are how much everyone not named Ortiz looks like they are pressing. Salty in particular is carrying a huge load on his back and it has showed at the plate.

    Crawford is the toy that nobody knows quite what to do with and he looks like a man trying to prove his salary is his value. Problem here is that he doesn't like to lead-off and it is not ideal to force a player into an uncomfortable role.

    But while his salary screams he is the best hitter on the team, he is not. The 7th spot in the order from Sunday is probably about right. The two spot isn't bad until you consider that because of the two lefties at the top of the order Tito put Pedey in the 3 slot. I find that maddening because at the end of the day no matter what order you put them in the 3-4 hitters are A-Gon and Youk until they produce large sample sets that prove otherwise.

    We went through a similar stretch last year to open the season and saw how quickly the RS were able to erase the deficit in May and early June before the injuries multiplied to the point where the RS had a AAA outfield and catching staffing. So we can't get too alarmed by how much a 4 loss streak is magnified when it is the first 4 games of the season.

    But if a team ever looked like they could use a couple of idiots in the locker room to lighten things up, the RS have looked like that team in the last two games and with the NYY being the home opening series after Cleveland the guys just getting loose can come none too quickly IMO.

    Just my take
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    No team with an 0-4 start have ever won the world series. 

    I take such stats with a grain of salt but it certainly means that some concern is warranted. Especially with the mediocre performances of Lackey and Beckett (Beckett had trouble cracking 90 miles an hour against a so-so Cleveland team). 

    On the bright side Salty got a hit. This Dice K start is gonna be interesting.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]God, FOUR games into the season and people are concerned??  Please!!  Let's give it some time. Jid, if you're around and being an ex-catcher, I have a question for you about Salty.  Harness, I'd like your assessment also.  I noticed that at times, Salty extends his right leg before a pitch(I wish the hell I had that flexibility).  It seems that when he does this, it allows him to set a lower target.  I would think he would set up this way more often.  Any comments?  
    Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE]

    Jid can better answer that one, Amp.
    I'd say it was for balance - feeling comfortable and in a good position to block WP's.

    I do not like Salty's target-setting. He flicks it instead of setting it.
    Many pitchers like to see a constant target as they are starting their delivery.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    With the 0-4 start, I think this is where the speed tandem will come into play.
    The hitters are pressing - i.e. not being patient enough - because they feel they have to score more runs than usual to compensate for the erratic pitching.
    Until the pitching restores team confidence, the team will follow their stumbling out of the gate with a slump.

    What will keep this from becoming a major slump is their ability to manufacture runs. The pen is shaping up. That's a good start. They can take the pressure off the starters having to go deep - or be too fine - to compensate for the weak hitting.

    It's a catch-22, but fortunately, speed doesn't go into slumps.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from M1A2. Show M1A2's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Right now I think Tek has done pretty darn well with him, especially given 50 strikes and 40 balls in the first 90 pitches--horrible control.  The 2 run dinger was on a grooved fastball, which belies the "challenge the hitters with fastballs." 

    5 innings, 3 runs, not too shabby.  A point for Matsuzaka and a point for Tek. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from M1A2. Show M1A2's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Well, good.  Now that we have that point cleared up, I would say that yesterday showed that Saltalamacchia might be OK because Beckett did not have his good fastball and only went 5 innings.  Lester we know starts slow, and Lackey, sad to say, is suspect until proven otherwise. 

    Tonight I don't know who to blame.  I do know that Tek called for a large number of fastballs in those first two innings.  On the other hand, maybe Matsuzaka wasn't ready to throw his changeup (he just threw a good one for a strike). 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Ill start getting concerned come May. I dont like the slow start, but I know theres enough talent on this team and they will turn this around. I still believe in 95+games won this year. I never drank the 100 win kool-aid. Its possible, just not probable IMHO.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Wakefield is live on the radio - Dennis Miller Show.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Harness is always right.  Heed his exact words, they are gospel.
    GO YANKEES.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II : I didn't realize teams spend $140M++ for a #7 hitter.
    Posted by DasBabe[/QUOTE]Well that is part of the quandary with Crawford isn't it? He was signed based on the total package and not simply his batting prowess and is surrounded by a lot of accomplished hitters.

    The same snarky comments could be made about #2 hitters or lead-off I suppose but Crawford assets include his speed and defense and gap power.

    But at 3-4 you have guys like Youk and A-Gon who will flirt with .400 OBP every year and mid .900 OPS. Then you have Ortiz who is still a top 10 power guy. As long as Ellsbury and Pedroia are the 1-2 guys that puts Crawford at 6 at best, versus a LH pitcher the RS are unlike to sandwich Ortiz and Crawford so in that circumstance (like Sunday's game versus the Rangers) that puts Crawford in 7 hole.

    So while you make the point even though I suspect your intention is to taunt. Crawford's salary is creating expectations that are perhaps over riding the realities of where he fits into the line-up on this team. For darn sure he'd never be a 6 or 7 hitter in Tampa or with the Angels by example... 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from M1A2. Show M1A2's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Well, now we are seeing the master at work.  First inning:  25 pitches, 2 runs, 1 dinger, etc.  You'd think Varitek would do better than that. 

    If one time Harness would say, "you know, I believe in CERA but have to recognize that on some days some pitchers are great no matter who is catching and some pitchers are lousy no matter who is catching," then I would support his thesis more than I do. 
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]The early positives (there aren't many) are that Ortiz clearly is not going to be awful out the gate this year unlike 09 and 10. The core of the bullpen aside from Bard's absolute meltdown in the opener and Papelbon's load em up strike out the side appearance on Sunday looks strong. And it looks like Francona has found a role for Wakefield in between spot starts For first appearances I thought that Buch and Beckett were OK (with run support those guys pitched winnable games), Lester had typical Lester April starts and Lackey.. well he got taken to the woodshed and was beaten like he stole something. Concerns are how much everyone not named Ortiz looks like they are pressing. Salty in particular is carrying a huge load on his back and it has showed at the plate. Crawford is the toy that nobody knows quite what to do with and he looks like a man trying to prove his salary is his value. Problem here is that he doesn't like to lead-off and it is not ideal to force a player into an uncomfortable role. But while his salary screams he is the best hitter on the team, he is not. The 7th spot in the order from Sunday is probably about right. The two spot isn't bad until you consider that because of the two lefties at the top of the order Tito put Pedey in the 3 slot. I find that maddening because at the end of the day no matter what order you put them in the 3-4 hitters are A-Gon and Youk until they produce large sample sets that prove otherwise. We went through a similar stretch last yearto open the season and saw how quickly the RS were able to erase the deficitin May and early June before the injuries multiplied to the point where the RS had a AAA outfield and catching staffing. So we can't get too alarmed by how much a 4 loss streak is magnified when it is the first 4 games of the season. But if a team ever looked like they could use a couple of idiots in the locker room to lighten things up, the RS have looked like that team in the last two games and with the NYY being the home opening series after Cleveland the guys just getting loose can come none too quickly IMO. Just my take
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    I like ur analogy to CC as the new toy.

    The team did make up the deficit last year, but it took the easiest part of the schedule (inter-league) to do it. If you look at the 2010 team record beyond that easy stretch, it's rather humbling.

    The easy part of the schedule is where the team should separate themselves from the pack - not play catch-up.

    BTW: Salty's issues aren't just in front of the platr. His handling of the pitching staff is also very much in question. In the 9 games he has started for the RedSox, dating back to last year...the RedSox have lost ALL OF THEM.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from M1A2. Show M1A2's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    I just saw Crawford do something I don't think Ellsbury's done--take 3d on a hardhit grounder to 2B, who threw out the runner at first. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    It's only 4 games.

    I really am not at all concerned.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Geez. The"feds" just nabbed Softy again - right before my eyes!
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    Boom, I never expect the Sox to win. I hope they will win. I do expect 60+ losses each year, and some of them will come at the hands of teams like Cleveland.

    I also think Salty is worth a try, but not at the expense of the season. He should have been groomed for at least a year with far less playing time. That way the risk is minimized.

    I know the argument is: "How can he develop with less playing time?".
    That's why Boston and NY often use other teams of lesser expenditure to serve as their training ground.

    Yeah, it's expensive to go the FA route or acquisition via trades, but it can be far more expensive to  jeopardize a season by putting a player in a key position when he's simply not ready yet.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]God, FOUR games into the season and people are concerned??  Please!!  Let's give it some time. Jid, if you're around and being an ex-catcher, I have a question for you about Salty.  Harness, I'd like your assessment also.  I noticed that at times, Salty extends his right leg before a pitch(I wish the hell I had that flexibility).  It seems that when he does this, it allows him to set a lower target.  I would think he would set up this way more often.  Any comments?  
    Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE]

    That's the only way a tall guy like him can get the target that low isn't it. I've seen that with tall catchers before. It must make it harder to get into a good defensive position but the bigger catchers need to do that sometimes.

    The overall numbers with Salty just are flat out not good. It's still a small sample size but it may be that the Sox are going to be extremely patient with him for half a season and get nothing. It could go either way and right now we all know which way it looks like ending up.

    God I hate being negative but look at his numbers from last fall also. It doesn't look good overall so far. And Texas did let him go for next to nothing.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Well, good.  Now that we have that point cleared up, I would say that yesterday showed that Saltalamacchia might be OK because Beckett did not have his good fastball and only went 5 innings.  Lester we know starts slow, and Lackey, sad to say, is suspect until proven otherwise.  Tonight I don't know who to blame.  I do know that Tek called for a large number of fastballs in those first two innings.  On the other hand, maybe Matsuzaka wasn't ready to throw his changeup (he just threw a good one for a strike). 
    Posted by M1A2[/QUOTE]

    The Sox coaching staff has been after Dice to pound the zone with heat - and challenge hitters. They want to instill confidence in him that his fastball is good enough to build off of, rather than setting up the hitters with junk and then using the gas as an out pitch. For 4 years they've been after him to adopt this ML approach to pitching.

    He was successful in the latter part of ST using this method. Obviously, the Indians were expecting nothing else.

    Understand, my stance is not anti-Salty. It's questioning the organization for putting him in this position.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Well, now we are seeing the master at work.  First inning:  25 pitches, 2 runs, 1 dinger, etc.  You'd think Varitek would do better than that.  If one time Harness would say, "you know, I believe in CERA but have to recognize that on some days some pitchers are great no matter who is catching and some pitchers are lousy no matter who is catching," then I would support his thesis more than I do. 
    Posted by M1A2[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately, you weren't here during the CATCHER'S RELEVANCE thread.

    I said that several times. Don't make one-game judgements and use them as a sole basis for ur determination.

    Catchers have little relevance when pitchers are off-form or spot-on.
    They have a definite effect otherwise.

    BTW: I wish folks would stop using CERA and apply other factors. CERA is but one lone indicator, and only useful when measured appropriately, which is to compare receivers on the same team, subject to the same criteria. There's plenty of other indicators, like BABIP, WHIP, Win-loss records, etc. Using these stats together allows for greater vision.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DasBabe. Show DasBabe's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II:
    [QUOTE]The early positives (there aren't many) are that Ortiz clearly is not going to be awful out the gate this year unlike 09 and 10. The core of the bullpen aside from Bard's absolute meltdown in the opener and Papelbon's load em up strike out the side appearance on Sunday looks strong. And it looks like Francona has found a role for Wakefield in between spot starts For first appearances I thought that Buch and Beckett were OK (with run support those guys pitched winnable games), Lester had typical Lester April starts and Lackey.. well he got taken to the woodshed and was beaten like he stole something. Concerns are how much everyone not named Ortiz looks like they are pressing. Salty in particular is carrying a huge load on his back and it has showed at the plate. Crawford is the toy that nobody knows quite what to do with and he looks like a man trying to prove his salary is his value. Problem here is that he doesn't like to lead-off and it is not ideal to force a player into an uncomfortable role. But while his salary screams he is the best hitter on the team, he is not. The 7th spot in the order from Sunday is probably about right. The two spot isn't bad until you consider that because of the two lefties at the top of the order Tito put Pedey in the 3 slot. I find that maddening because at the end of the day no matter what order you put them in the 3-4 hitters are A-Gon and Youk until they produce large sample sets that prove otherwise. We went through a similar stretch last year to open the season and saw how quickly the RS were able to erase the deficit in May and early June before the injuries multiplied to the point where the RS had a AAA outfield and catching staffing. So we can't get too alarmed by how much a 4 loss streak is magnified when it is the first 4 games of the season. But if a team ever looked like they could use a couple of idiots in the locker room to lighten things up, the RS have looked like that team in the last two games and with the NYY being the home opening series after Cleveland the guys just getting loose can come none too quickly IMO. Just my take

    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    I didn't realize teams spend $140M++ for a #7 hitter.

     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part II

    bump thread back
     
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