A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
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Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 2:01 AM EDT
- BurritoT
- Posts: 8051
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Hey guys you can see that tampa is not afraid to let there guys go 9.... shame most think that -6 innings and a 6 man staff are the solution to the future. It is not. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 5:01 AM EDT
- S0ftl@w
- Posts: 652
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harnut has been harping about Scutaro's washed up arm all season. You two booohbs were boasting about Jed Lowrie. Scutaro had a career high in 2009 and played 140 plust games. If plenty of rest meant health then Lowrie would be Cal Ripkin.
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Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 5:03 AM EDT
- S0ftl@w
- Posts: 652
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The position you held this year was Lowrie was proving me wrong by showing good health. He broke down about a week after you boasted that my position on fragile Lowire was proven wrong.
Two board bullies posting drivel and patting one another on the back. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 5:58 AM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
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In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:harnut has been harping about Scutaro's washed up arm all season. You two booohbs were boasting about Jed Lowrie. Scutaro had a career high in 2009 and played 140 plust games. If plenty of rest meant health then Lowrie would be Cal Ripkin.
Posted by S0ftl@w
I've been harping on Scut's fielding for two years.
He's erratic. I doubt his "washed-up arm" was ever that great to begin with.
I told you back in May of 2010 Scut will tank come August if they continue to play him into the ground. This year they gave him plenty of rest.
2010: 695 PA's - a career high.
2011: 366 PA's.
When a player is played hurt, it affects not only performance, but future health.
Lowrie when healthy can hit. He didn't "revert back to career norm" when healthy. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 9:02 AM EDT
- BurritoT
- Posts: 8051
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yes he did.... when he's injured or sick that is his career norm. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 9:10 AM EDT
- Myles-Standish
- Posts: 68
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In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:yes he did.... when he's injured or sick that is his career norm.
Posted by BurritoT
I believe that Harness is speaking of hitting stats when saying "career norm". -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 9:15 AM EDT
- BurritoT
- Posts: 8051
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hard to hit when your on the bench with the flu or a sprained pinky -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 9:26 AM EDT
- Myles-Standish
- Posts: 68
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- Last: 9/11/2011
Never mind. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 10:16 AM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34553
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I don't think any one game will be conclusive either way. This concept should never be measured this way.
I agree. Some posters read too much into one or two game sample sizes, however, Salty is dropping everything Wake throws, so VTek might be a good idea as a change for a geame or two here when we need it. I seriously think the #200 win is distracting Wake. Maybe VTek can do a better job keeping him focused.I do think Tito is aware of Tek/Miller and I am willing to bet we see Salty catching Miller's next outing. Between starts, Miller might find a flaw in his delivery.
So, saying it's one catcher or another based on his next outing isn't credibleMIller has at least had a couple good games out of his last 5 or 6. I think he should be in and Lackey out at this point. I have lost all faith in John for the remainder of this season..
In fact, it's tough to find many credible analogies between the two catcher's this year. On Salty's behalf, when Tek initially caught Wake early on in his career, he had real issues with passed balls.VTek has caught Wake more than any other catcher in his career, except Mirabelli. That was mostly long ago, however. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 10:55 AM EDT
- dannycater
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Look, I'm not going to get in an argument about short sample sizes, but the reality is that the "same" and the "predictable" hasn't been working for Wakefield and hasn't been working for Miller. There's simply not a lot of time to work on a large sample size with the catchers. But RECENT success for the two with the other's deemed personal catcher---Tek with Wake--and Salty with Miller---at least tells me that both pitchers can and have the ability to throw gems. Both basically did with the other's catcher. Not a lot of time left to keep getting similar results (Miller imploding with Tek, Wakes not getting a proper defensive catcher in Salty). If either are to really contribute in the short space left in the season, you have to make the difficult change (Tito/Theo obviously are too stubborn on their decisions) or the "radical" change. Me, I think it's just helping both pitchers and all it is in the lineup is switching your No. 1 catcher with your No. 2...It shouldn't be an issue....Short sample sizes are just what we have left in this season. Short sample size on Pedroia in the 4th hole lately tells me no more 4th hole for him. Does that mean I'm basing it solely on his short sample size of 4-for-34 slump or just that he is slumping. So don't take me literally about things when I talk about a singular game. I am thinking longer term on both Miller and Wakefield's future success. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 11:00 AM EDT
- BurritoT
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Pedroia is not a classic 4 hitter, AGon should be pushed down to the 4 spot, CC moved up into 2 or 3.1) Elles2) Pedroia3) Crawford4) AGonI don't care much for the right-left-right stuff either, it is not all that. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 11:23 AM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34553
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CC should bat 9th if at all vs LHPs. He should bat 2nd at best vs RHPs. Right now, Scutty has been doing pretty well from the 2 slot.I might try this for the short term (with no Youk):vs RHPs:1) Ellsb2) Craw3) AGon4) Papi5) Pedey6) Redd7) Salty8) Scutty9) Aviles (3B)vs LHPs:1) Ells2) Scutty3) Pedey4) AGon5) Papi6) Lowrie (3B)7) VTek8) DMac9) Craw or Redd8) -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 1:00 PM EDT
- tjwoods
- Posts: 235
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Said it at start of the season: Pitching is the Achilles' heel of this team: and so it it.I have a new name for Mr. Lackey, whose acquisition I oppoed for the very reasons we're seeing every time he takes the mound.Let's dub him: Give 'em 5 Lackey. Ninety percent of the time you can rely on him to give up 5 runs by the 5th inning.Summatio (fulfilling expectations) he'll give you an occasional solid outing surrounded by two or three bombs. He's at best a #4 pitcher on a mediocre team. In Boston, he doesn't belong. Where's Bronson Arroyo when you need him. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 1:07 PM EDT
- dannycater
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Where's JD Drew when you need him? -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 2:18 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34553
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Where's all those solid pitching prospects we've been told are being held back? -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 3:25 PM EDT
- ampoule
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I hate to sound pessimistic, but I think we're in deep trouble. I just don't think we have enough in our pitching staff to survive. The reason we're so fragile? Who knows? Is it Young's fault? poor conditioning? poor training schedule? Whatever, they're deteriorating before our eyes.
I'm scared to death that Bard and Aceves will burn out.
Youkilis is hurting, Pedroia is slumping...not even taking into consideration the pin he has in his foot which has to be bothering him. Lowrie is chronically hurting, Scutaro is doing his best, yet has arm problems.
I'll always be a Sox fan, but I've seen this before and it makes me nervous. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 5:59 PM EDT
- S0ftl@w
- Posts: 652
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Lowrie when healthy can hit. He didn't "revert back to career norm" when healthy.
Lowrie can not hit Rhp, and career nor proves it. As lp, his career averages arent good enough for a butcher. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 6:13 PM EDT
- redsoxdirtdog
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In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:Lowrie when healthy can hit. He didn't "revert back to career norm" when healthy. Lowrie can not hit Rhp, and career nor proves it. As lp, his career averages arent good enough for a butcher.
Posted by S0ftl@w
How 'bout your pathetic analysis of a 3rd full year player?????? ELLS!
I'm sure you can still pick apart his OUT OF THIS WORLD NUMBERS!!!! -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 6:15 PM EDT
- redsoxdirtdog
- Posts: 4511
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In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:Lowrie when healthy can hit. He didn't "revert back to career norm" when healthy. Lowrie can not hit Rhp, and career nor proves it. As lp, his career averages arent good enough for a butcher.
Posted by S0ftl@w
I'll give you Lowrie. I'll even give you Wake (reluctantly)......
BUT your thesis on Ells. is frankly LAME!
YOU just can't admit when you're WRONG! PROVEN WRONG! as I just did.....
It's a sign of a very weak mind, & pathetic character! -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 6:43 PM EDT
- S0ftl@w
- Posts: 652
- First: 8/23/2011
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OUT OF THIS WORLD NUMBERS!!!!
Not against LP, and inferior to a number of players v RP. Red Sox need elite v LP slugger in OF. Ellsbury and a career year being overhyped aint it, and aint ever going to be it. Crawford is Theos daddy, so Ellsbury wont be signed past last 2 years of arbitration. And that keeps Theo from making the same stooge mistake, twice. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 8:02 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
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In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:I hate to sound pessimistic, but I think we're in deep trouble. I just don't think we have enough in our pitching staff to survive. The reason we're so fragile? Who knows? Is it Young's fault? poor conditioning? poor training schedule? Whatever, they're deteriorating before our eyes. I'm scared to death that Bard and Aceves will burn out. Youkilis is hurting, Pedroia is slumping...not even taking into consideration the pin he has in his foot which has to be bothering him. Lowrie is chronically hurting, Scutaro is doing his best, yet has arm problems. I'll always be a Sox fan, but I've seen this before and it makes me nervous.
Posted by ampoule
I doubt conditioning or training regiment has changed. But Young's influence is the only thing different from last year. Here's one example of how a poor pitching coach can have both a short term and long term negative affect:
The outing in which Bard got hammered, his mechanics were so far off (and usually they are air-tight), a middle infielder-turned-announcer noticed it right away.
Young didn't. That lone outing could have caused injury quite easily.
It could have affected Bard this year and down the road. This in turn would have affected how the team approaches Paps this winter.
This is just one lone example.
Looks like Softone got the axe again. Must have been his non-bigoted remarks. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 8:22 PM EDT
- ampoule
- Posts: 2440
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In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III : I doubt conditioning or training regiment has changed. But Young's influence is the only thing different from last year. Here's one example of how a poor pitching coach can have both a short term and long term negative affect: The outing in which Bard got hammered, his mechanics were so far off (and usually they are air-tight), a middle infielder-turned-announcer noticed it right away. Young didn't. That lone outing could have caused injury quite easily. It could have affected Bard this year and down the road. This in turn would have affected how the team approaches Paps this winter. This is just one lone example. Looks like Softone got the axe again. Must have been his non-bigoted remarks.
Posted by harness
C'mon, harness.... -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 8:26 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
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That cat in UR pic looks like one of mine.
Dulcy! Dulcy! Where are ya girl??? -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 8:35 PM EDT
- SonicsMonksLyresVicars
- Posts: 2018
- First: 3/25/2011
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In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:I hate to sound pessimistic, but I think we're in deep trouble. I just don't think we have enough in our pitching staff to survive. The reason we're so fragile? Who knows? Is it Young's fault? poor conditioning? poor training schedule? Whatever, they're deteriorating before our eyes. I'm scared to death that Bard and Aceves will burn out. Youkilis is hurting, Pedroia is slumping...not even taking into consideration the pin he has in his foot which has to be bothering him. Lowrie is chronically hurting, Scutaro is doing his best, yet has arm problems. I'll always be a Sox fan, but I've seen this before and it makes me nervous.
Posted by ampoule
Amp, "pessimistic" is all too many Sox "fans"'s attitude all too much of the time. "Realistic" are your concerns.
O-wise, re Youk's problems - whatever they are - are a concern, but at worst they make the 1st/2nd offensive machine the 3rd/4th. Relatively minor problem.
P-wise, we're dead in the water in the post-season without Beckett at his best. Re health blame? Lester has been healthy and excellent, Beckett sublime despite accidental sprain last week.....Lackey may or may not have long term elbow probs given shots in the Spring after a decade of heavy duty......Matsuzaka's elbow gave out after MANY pitches (rather than inning count) in MLB and heavy duty pitch counts from his teens in Japan. Buchholz has had back problems.
My point is that, of the Fab 5, the only health situation that isn't fully healthy, incidental injury or run-of-the-mill wear-and-tear is Buchholz' back...and 1 is a pretty small sample. So I think finding blame is guesswork, and seeking blame is scapegoating. -
Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III
posted at 9/10/2011 8:50 PM EDT
- Myles-Standish
- Posts: 68
- First: 9/10/2011
- Last: 9/11/2011
However I do appreciate the genuine concern that is expresessed by Ampoule. It is obvious that he is a genuine Red Sox fan. There s no doubt about that.