A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    Pitch count should be irrelevant. It is current form, control, command and velocity. Only idiots manage based on pitch counts.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    The Sox are still likely to get in the playoffs but TB just lost 2 in a row right. If they won 2 we would be tied right now. We are backing into the playoffs. We are lucky it isn't worse!

    Moon, I haven't given up, and we will continue to root for them. It's not like they are not trying. I'm wondering if it is even right to speculate on their fate and be a true fan. The numbers side of me can't help it. The realist. 

    But then Bernie Carbo comes up and belts one to CF...and the crowd roars! When we are on the edge of defeat it makes those moments even more special.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    boomer we are about to play the Yankees. Both Tampa and the Angles play weaker teams this weekend. what is 'likely' about making the play-offs that you see and I don't?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III : Me thinks you don't pay attention to detail. Beckett didn't have the ankle issue until he slipped taking off his uniform. Look at his form since he returned.
    Posted by harness


    Thats the point, if he really has ankle issues than why for the 1st time in 3 months did Tito finally push a starter to go 7 and then 8 in this case?
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    We kind of imploded last year also, with all the injuries. Pedroia, Youk, Ellsbury, Cameron and others out for a long time. It is definitely something that has happened to the Redsox in the past as us old timers have seared into our souls!
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    I don't know if I'd use that terminology, Boom.
    CAM had a sports hernia.
    Jake/Hermida had cracked ribs.
    Tek/VMART/Pedey broke bones in their feet.
    Youk had a freak hand injury.

    Maybe the baseball fates were at war.

    I don't see this year in the same light.
    Pitching injuries will happen.
    But erratic form not corrected properly?
    Lost velocity from 3 key starters?
    This is what is killing this team.

    Lester pitched in a game that could have buried the Rays. Huge opportunity.
    He threw 91-93 MPH.
    He threw 96 MPH last year.

    Last time out, he threw 94-95. So, there's hope for tomorrow.
    He doesn't have the command to be successful at 91-93.

    Bedard was just coming into form. He only needed to command his FB in better fashion, and he was close. They he went down. Had 16 days off with one side session.
    His outing showed it. 70-75 pitches and he was gone after a few frames.
    His FB command regressed quite a bit. And he is a key piece going forward.
    With one more start in the reg. season, he'll need a cracker-jack sounding board to find the necessary mechanical form to be a factor.
    IMO, he does not have one. Dave Duncan has employment elsewhere.

    Implosion might better fit this year.

    As for spending time on the forum, there are always gonna be differences of opinion. How they are stated and how seriously they are taken depends on the participants. Obviously, time can better be spent elsewhere. I have taken a bath with the market lately (I'm sure many have). Had I spent more time there instead of here, I'd be better off $$$. But the market bores me.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    Because management is now pushing Bucholz and moving from coasting and caution to desperate. The reality is that I noted management decision play for 2nd place and assume WC coast and caution mistake back in late August. 
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    that is 100% correct.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    Moon and Harness, I really am not obsessing about Aceves starting and you two guys offer the best stat support of anyone on here, and I the worst.  But here is the stat I responded to Harness.  In Aceves 4 starts: 5-5-6-5.  Is anyone else doing that now?  Not really for some time.  I am not arguing that this is Aceves best role, just that NOW it's best for the team, just as you are saying NOW let the starters go a little longer or NOW let the starters go on 4 day rest.  Not hollering here, only for emphasis on temporary.  Then, Doobie, Bowden, Miller probably don't have the experience or mental makeup to start in this do or die atmosphere at this time, but I think they would be more comfortable coming in in the 6th or 7th to work and could actually be more effective for several innings as opposed to starting.  Finally, I think you each have said Bedard is our best bet going forward.  Please, I want to believe that, but all my eyes and empirical evidence does not support that in any way.  I'm not anti-Bedard but I think it's crazy to think he and Buch are our saviors without any backup plan--thus, Aceves.  Has Bedard even won one game for us yet?  I don't recall.  This situation has been caused by injury--Dice, Buch, Bedard, and I believe Lackey. What have we done pro-actively to turn this around?  As Boom says, I think we need a new approach to this problem.  Running the same guys out there has not worked for a month. Harness, when you have a question that doesn't get answered, you always re-ask so...Do you think Aceves-Doobie, Bowden, Miller going forward would be worsethan Lackey-Aceves, Wake-Aceves, etc.
    Posted by Critter23


    Yes I do, Crit. Aceves as a 3-inning bridge that can be used 2-3 times in 5 days, be it with Lackey, Bedard, or whoever, is better than using him once for 5+ IP...with little back-up.

    Ironically, Aceves is best used in middle relief, which is often where low depth BP is deployed. He's not really effective as a starter or an 8th inning guy in that he needs a clean slate and a little time to established his three pitches.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    Because management is now pushing Bucholzand moving from coasting and caution to desperate. The reality is that I noted management decision play for 2nd place and assume WC coast and caution mistake back in late August. 
    Posted by 1958lesspaul



    Prove it.
    Buch has been on the same regiment since he went down. If they were pushing him, he wouldn't be pitching in simulated fashion with a week left. He would have already been through rehab alignment.

    As for UR coasting gospel, you are again out to lunch. Injuries to Beckett/Bedard were very real. Their production since returning reflects physical issues.
    They are as real as Youk's.

    You have "coasting" cemented in UR skull.
    Actual physical injury and not playing players hurt is a far cry from "coasting".
    Try adjusting UR position to actual occurance, or is Jake still having a great season because of AGONE.

    I guess the catches are also. Tek/Salty tandem have hit 27 dingers...as many as AGONE.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III : Yes I do, Crit . Aceves as a 3-inning bridge that can be used 2-3 times in 5 days, be it with Lackey, Bedard, or whoever, is better than using him once for 5+ IP...with little back-up. Ironically, Aceves is best used in middle relief, which is often where low depth BP is deployed. He's not really effective as a starter or an 8th inning guy in that he needs a clean slate and a little time to established his three pitches.
    Posted by harness


    I remember Aceves being a good late inning RP when he was on the Yankees, and a decent starter too; he's extremely versatile, like a Basketball player who could play all 5 positions; his lifetime W-L Pct is  mind boggling, as well. He's been invaluable to the RS this yr; a magnificent brain f-rt by Cashman to let him go (supposedly due to his back), and he knows it.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III :I remember Aceves being a good late inning RP when he was on the Yankees, and a decent starter too; he's extremely versatile, like a Basketball player who could play all 5 positions; his lifetime W-L Pct is  mind boggling, as well. He's been invaluable to the RS this yr; a magnificent brain f-rt by Cashman to let him go (supposedly due to his back), and he knows it.
    Posted by nhsteven


    Aceves came up in late season 2008 for NY. They used him as a starter in Sept, as that's what he was in 9 seasons in AAA. It transferred well...for a time.

    In 2010, he couldn't get out of the 4th inning in his lone start, and he then was pitching in the pen ever since.

    He threw most of his IP in the 6th/7th frames (51% of his total IP out of the pen).
    From the 7th-9th frames: 42.6 IP  40 H  24 ER  5.07 ERA

    Why they let him walk is something you'd know more about than I.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III : Well, there's a first for everything! As I said, ACE status depends on criteria. Sabathia is an ACE, I'm sure you'll agree. IP per start: Beckett: 6.43 CC:       7.19 That's not much difference. Weaver is having a career year, and his ratio is 7.09 per start. Point is, that's the way the game is today. And in that context, 13-5  2.50 ERA  0.996 WHIP for Beckett justifies ACE status. Pedro's career in Boston: 2.52 ERA  0.978 WHIP  6.89 IP per start.
    Posted by harness



    Burrito: I noticed you never replied to this. Me thinks you are now confused as to what exactly determines ACE status. 

    Wasn't Pedro an ACE?
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III : Thats the point, if he really has ankle issues than why for the 1st time in 3 months did Tito finally push a starter to go 7 and then 8 in this case?
    Posted by BurritoT


    It's not the first time in three months. Lester went 7 last outing.
    Beckett went 7 on Aug. 31st.
    Then he got hurt.
    He came back and threw 6 innings. 109 pitches. (93 MPH). That's plenty coming off 11 days out and an unproven ankle.

    Today he went 7.  Threw 93 MPH early on and then 94 MPH as the game progressed. Good sign. His FB command (two-seamer) was better. Tito threw him out there in the 8th as his pitch count was manageable, but the decision proved faultry as it was obvious his effectiveness diminished prior. I think it was a situation where Tito didn't trust his pen.

    As I stated, pitch count criteria is based on several factors. 100 pitches coming of an injury/down-time isn't like 100 pitches thrown in top form.
    Pitchers are used to a 4-day work routine between starts. Build endurance and maintain pitch efficiency. The thought process is all about repeating delivery/release point. Looking for ways to improve.

    Once you take a pitcher out of this robotic routine, he can easily lose form with rust. Injury and poor mechanics compromise velocity and efficiency.
    This is where a pitching coach is invaluable...or detrimental.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    boomer we are about to play the Yankees. Both Tampa and the Angles play weaker teams this weekend. what is 'likely' about making the play-offs that you see and I don't?
    Posted by BurritoT


    We are still 2 games up, incredibly!
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    That's because we played tougher competition when the Rays played softer.
    Now it evens out.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III : I don't know if I'd use that terminology, Boom . CAM had a sports hernia. Jake/Hermida had cracked ribs. Tek/VMART/Pedey broke bones in their feet. Youk had a freak hand injury. Maybe the baseball fates were at war. I don't see this year in the same light. Pitching injuries will happen. But erratic form not corrected properly? Lost velocity from 3 key starters? This is what is killing this team. Lester pitched in a game that could have buried the Rays. Huge opportunity. He threw 91-93 MPH. He threw 96 MPH last year. Last time out, he threw 94-95. So, there's hope for tomorrow. He doesn't have the command to be successful at 91-93. Bedard was just coming into form. He only needed to command his FB in better fashion, and he was close. They he went down. Had 16 days off with one side session. His outing showed it. 70-75 pitches and he was gone after a few frames. His FB command regressed quite a bit. And he is a key piece going forward. With one more start in the reg. season, he'll need a cracker-jack sounding board to find the necessary mechanical form to be a factor. IMO, he does not have one. Dave Duncan has employment elsewhere. Implosion might better fit this year. As for spending time on the forum, there are always gonna be differences of opinion. How they are stated and how seriously they are taken depends on the participants. Obviously, time can better be spent elsewhere. I have taken a bath with the market lately (I'm sure many have). Had I spent more time there instead of here, I'd be better off $$$. But the market bores me.
    Posted by harness


    We had major injuries and nosedived eventually both years. To me both years represent an implosion but hopefully this year is still savable. The Rays losing 3 games in a row now is certainly helping.

    Implosions can happen from playing bad, injuries, clubhouse dissention...etc. Bad management...etc. It was primarily injuries to me:

    CAM had a sports hernia. 
    Jake/Hermida had cracked ribs.
    Tek/VMART/Pedey broke bones in their feet.
    Youk had a freak hand injury.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    Catcher relevance study knocks Varitek.

    Neyer "thanks to SportVision's PITCHf/x and COMMANDf/x, now we've got data. I saw a study at the PITCHf/x Summit a few weeks ago, but Fast's study is sort of mind-blowing, because he's discovered huge differences between catchers.  So I'll tell you that Jose Molina and Jonathan Lucroy are really good at getting borderline pitches, while Ryan Doumit and Jason Varitek and Jorge Posada are really bad."

    Mike Fast's huge study of catchers' measured ability (or not) www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093">get the close pitches called strikes by the umpires    "Doumit dropped his head on 11 of the 12 pitches I reviewed on video. On the one pitch where he did not do that, he got a strike call. Molina dropped his head to follow the ball into the glove on two of the 10 pitches I reviewed on video, and both of those pitches were called balls.

    Lucroy’s head was stable on all seven pitches I reviewed, and he got seven strike calls. Varitek’s head was stable on all six pitches I reviewed, all called balls, but his exaggerated glove movement may have cost him those strike calls.

    I also reviewed five of Posada’s borderline pitches on video. In two cases, his arm and body movements were very exaggerated and potentially distracting to the umpires. In the other three cases, his body and glove were fairly stable (though not perfectly so like Lucroy), but he dropped his head noticeably to follow the ball into the glove. All five pitches were called balls.

    Exaggerated glove and body movements are well known to be distracting to umpires. As www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maynebr01.shtml">Brent Mayne wrote in www.amazon.com/Art-Catching-Techniques-Baseballs-Demanding/dp/0981538657/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316646351&sr=8-1">The Art of Catching:

    Simply catch the ball firmly. When the pitch and glove meet, that’s where the action should stop. The catcher should have enough strength to stop the momentum of the ball so that strikes don’t turn into balls. Think of a gymnast "sticking" a landing. Just "stick" the ball, hold it for a brief second, then throw it back.

    Lucroy and Molina have that technique perfected. Varitek, on the other hand, appears to have lost dozens of strike calls every year because he does not."

    Neyer  "What we're seeing here is the modern combination of pure data and eyeball analysis. First, the data flagged Doumit, Molina, Lucroy, Varitek and Posada; then video observation was used to explain the data. And the data is more believable, more actionable, if it's accompanied by an explanation

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from caseycsw. Show caseycsw's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    Catcher relevance study knocks Varitek. Neyer "thanks to SportVision's PITCHf/x and COMMANDf/x, now we've got data. I saw a study at the PITCHf/x Summit a few weeks ago, but Fast's study is sort of mind-blowing, because he's discovered huge differences between catchers.  So I'll tell you that Jose Molina and Jonathan Lucroy are really good at getting borderline pitches, while Ryan Doumit and Jason Varitek and Jorge Posada are really bad." Mike Fast's huge study of catchers' measured ability (or not) www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093 " /> get the close pitches called strikes by the umpires    "Doumit dropped his head on 11 of the 12 pitches I reviewed on video. On the one pitch where he did not do that, he got a strike call. Molina dropped his head to follow the ball into the glove on two of the 10 pitches I reviewed on video, and both of those pitches were called balls. Lucroy’s head was stable on all seven pitches I reviewed, and he got seven strike calls. Varitek’s head was stable on all six pitches I reviewed, all called balls, but his exaggerated glove movement may have cost him those strike calls. I also reviewed five of Posada’s borderline pitches on video. In two cases, his arm and body movements were very exaggerated and potentially distracting to the umpires. In the other three cases, his body and glove were fairly stable (though not perfectly so like Lucroy), but he dropped his head noticeably to follow the ball into the glove. All five pitches were called balls. Exaggerated glove and body movements are well known to be distracting to umpires. As www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maynebr01.shtml "> Brent Mayne wrote in www.amazon.com/Art-Catching-Techniques-Baseballs-Demanding/dp/0981538657/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316646351&sr=8-1 "> The Art of Catching : Simply catch the ball firmly. When the pitch and glove meet, that’s where the action should stop. The catcher should have enough strength to stop the momentum of the ball so that strikes don’t turn into balls. Think of a gymnast "sticking" a landing. Just "stick" the ball, hold it for a brief second, then throw it back. Lucroy and Molina have that technique perfected. Varitek, on the other hand, appears to have lost dozens of strike calls every year because he does not." Neyer  "What we're seeing here is the modern combination of pure data and eyeball analysis. First, the data flagged Doumit, Molina, Lucroy, Varitek and Posada; then video observation was used to explain the data. And the data is more believable, more actionable , if it's accompanied by an explanation
    Posted by tom-uk


    Yikes...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the analytical baseball waters without being devoured by the metric sharks, we now have catcher movement topography with regard to eliciting ball and strike calls from the umps.  Pretty cool, I guess, but now I want them to start remotely analyzing the brain patterns of a given pitcher, combined with extensive facial analysis, to see the psychological effect he is having on hitter, catcher and umpire. This, of course, would explain Randy Johnson's "scary" success as one of the greatest pitchers of the post-modern era.  And while we're at it, what did they have for breakfast that morning....

    Warning: This post was created by a Yankee fan, and may be intended to cause irreparable emotional and psychological harm to any Red Sox fan who might read it.

    "Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living."

    Mary Harris "Mother" Jones (union and community organizer, born 1837 (Ireland) - 1930 (U.S.) )

     
    when the boss comes callin' his take his toll 
    when the boss comes callin' don't you sell your soul 
    when the boss comes callin' we gotta organize 

            - Dropkick Murphys (for the workers of Wisconsin)

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    Prove it.
    Buch has been on the same regiment since he went down. If they were pushing him, he wouldn't be pitching in simulated fashion with a week left.

    Management used caution and careful with Buch up until recently. Now, Tito is stating that Buch may be ready to pitch as early as Monday. If the Red Sox were playoff clinched, there is no chance Theo makes that statement. It is a reverse in course in rhetoric, and shows how urgent management mindset has become. The lack of urgency in August is why this team lost confidence in the first place.

    Injuries are built in annual excuse. No championship has a footnote that lists season injuries of the team that lost. There is a 40 man roster, farm systeam and trade market for a reason. Epstein should be fired, regardless of whether or not this grossly under achieving regular season team does well in playoff results.   
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    Prove it. Buch has been on the same regiment since he went down. If they were pushing him, he wouldn't be pitching in simulated fashion with a week left. Management used caution and careful with Buch up until recently. Now, Tito is stating that Buch may be ready to pitch as early as Monday. If the Red Sox were playoff clinched, there is no chance Theo makes that statement. It is a reverse in course in rhetoric, and shows how urgent management mindset has become. The lack of urgency in August is why this team lost confidence in the first place. Injuries are built in annual excuse. No championship has a footnote that lists season injuries of the team that lost. There is a 40 man roster, farm systeam and trade market for a reason. Epstein should be fired, regardless of whether or not this grossly under achieving regular season team does will in playoff results.   
    Posted by 1958lesspaul


    Total assumtion.
    Buch says differently.
    Team approach to his back fracture never waved one iota.
    He would be in the exact same position whether or not the team was contending.
    This time table and level of rehab was projected well over 2 months ago.

    Team MO is not to rush highly sought players who are hurt.

    You also assumed Ellsbury-2011 was the by-product of AGONE.
    AGONE may have to push it to beat Jake in dingers...
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    Catcher relevance study knocks Varitek. Neyer "thanks to SportVision's PITCHf/x and COMMANDf/x, now we've got data. I saw a study at the PITCHf/x Summit a few weeks ago, but Fast's study is sort of mind-blowing, because he's discovered huge differences between catchers.  So I'll tell you that Jose Molina and Jonathan Lucroy are really good at getting borderline pitches, while Ryan Doumit and Jason Varitek and Jorge Posada are really bad." Mike Fast's huge study of catchers' measured ability (or not) www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093 " /> get the close pitches called strikes by the umpires    "Doumit dropped his head on 11 of the 12 pitches I reviewed on video. On the one pitch where he did not do that, he got a strike call. Molina dropped his head to follow the ball into the glove on two of the 10 pitches I reviewed on video, and both of those pitches were called balls. Lucroy’s head was stable on all seven pitches I reviewed, and he got seven strike calls. Varitek’s head was stable on all six pitches I reviewed, all called balls, but his exaggerated glove movement may have cost him those strike calls. I also reviewed five of Posada’s borderline pitches on video. In two cases, his arm and body movements were very exaggerated and potentially distracting to the umpires. In the other three cases, his body and glove were fairly stable (though not perfectly so like Lucroy), but he dropped his head noticeably to follow the ball into the glove. All five pitches were called balls. Exaggerated glove and body movements are well known to be distracting to umpires. As www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maynebr01.shtml "> Brent Mayne wrote in www.amazon.com/Art-Catching-Techniques-Baseballs-Demanding/dp/0981538657/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316646351&sr=8-1 "> The Art of Catching : Simply catch the ball firmly. When the pitch and glove meet, that’s where the action should stop. The catcher should have enough strength to stop the momentum of the ball so that strikes don’t turn into balls. Think of a gymnast "sticking" a landing. Just "stick" the ball, hold it for a brief second, then throw it back. Lucroy and Molina have that technique perfected. Varitek, on the other hand, appears to have lost dozens of strike calls every year because he does not." Neyer  "What we're seeing here is the modern combination of pure data and eyeball analysis. First, the data flagged Doumit, Molina, Lucroy, Varitek and Posada; then video observation was used to explain the data. And the data is more believable, more actionable , if it's accompanied by an explanation
    Posted by tom-uk


    Thanx Tom. Interesting stuff. I never really bought into "pitch-framing" as a pertinent part of a catcher's relevance. I think the physical part of a catcher's game should be separated from analytical ability.



     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    You assumed Agon would be selling tickets in San Diego.

    Buch simply says he wil do whatever management wants him to do, which more than be said for Ellsbury. Management media rhetoric has changed.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III : We are still 2 games up, incredibly!
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom



    ...and that's why we are still likely to make the playoffs.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    You have two teams tied for 2.5 games back  and we are about to face New York in NYC. Nothing over the last 30 days should give any of you the confidence to make the statement that its a sure thing we go to the show.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2011: Part III

    Moon/Burrito/Harness - there were many here who believed that the Yankees would take their foot off the pedal come the last 3 games of the season against, assuming they clinched the division by then. And that was pizzing off some of RSN. Since things played out better than expected, the Yankees can actually relax going into the weekend series with Boston. My question to all three of you is, do you think will they relax this coming weekend against the Sox? Personally, I think they go full tilt until the best record in the AL is locked up, but I am interested in your thoughts.
     
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