A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : We wouldn't probably win with this team, so why not let Papi walk too? We could trade Youk for soemone good and not have to pay a cent of his deal.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Your right, how did we do with the 2011 team?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : Why do you expect that? Maybe we also need to expect some of them to quit completely due to frustration and being overmatched, too? 
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Because they are trying to make the big pay day? How much overmatched could they be than the pitching staff we fielded this year?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    False. It started the downturn and had a negative impact on starter health. InEpstein was behind coast and rest called "caution" policy.

    Timmy T-Ball gave up 5 earned runs and 2 homers v. Jays on 9-13-11.

    After Win # 199 on July 24, a tip of his cap after giving up a grand slam, Timmy T-Ball's ERA continued up until reaching it's season worst in September meltdown.

    It was not someone else's fault. It was Timmy T-Ball's fault.

    Early April and Timmy T-Ball squatting on roster was also a disaster. 

     
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Moon, a lot of comments the last few days in light of the end of the season regarding Theo and the "statistics" or "moneyball" approach and maybe RS went too far in that direction, not enough "old school" approach, identifying players with "heart" as opposed to those with statistics.  I don't know how much weight I put on all this, just turning over every rock because of end.  BUT I do know I like the way Youk and Pedey play, the look on their faces when they don't do well, like they really care.  How do you feel about the ballance between the two schools?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]False. It started the downturnand had a negative impact on starter health. InEpstein was behind coast and rest called "caution" policy. Timmy T-Ball gave up 5 earned runs and 2 homers v. Jays on 9-13-11. After Win # 199 on July 24, a tip of his cap after giving up a grand slam, Timmy T-Ball's ERA continued up until reaching it's season worst in September meltdown. It was not someone else's fault. It was Timmy T-Ball's fault. Early April and Timmy T-Ball squatting on roster was also a disaster.   
    Posted by 1958lesspaul[/QUOTE]

    Your perception is shot. It didn't start any downturn. The downturn was the result of injuries. There was no cause/effect of occurrence beyond injuries, and the 6-man rotation served to delay the inevitable.

    Using a symbolic gesture to the fans after Tito left Wake in too long to justify UR position exposes UR blind side.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    I really have a strong distaste for the press. Anytime you see "sources say" you know nothing at all is fact. Theo has not even made up his mind but they still go ahead and say he has.

    It is a bit insane how this season continues to be a joke - the brass should already have an answer from Theo and most important Theo should already have made up his mind.

    At this point I am ready for him to go - that is the best way to complete the "change-over".
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]I really have a strong distaste for the press. Anytime you see "sources say" you know nothing at all is fact. Theo has not even made up his mind but they still go ahead and say he has. It is a bit insane how this season continues to be a joke - the brass should already have an answer from Theo and most important Theo should already have made up his mind. At this point I am ready for him to go - that is the best way to complete the "change-over".
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Press is trying to fan the flames.
    That's what they do now-a-days.
    It is pathetic.

    The FO is right to show patience.
    I say Theo sticks, but I understand the lure of a position of more influence.
    I think he'd be a fool to leave.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Headline now says "Theo gone in 48 hours,".... 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Wow, I just read the Globe article "Behind the Collapse."  Wow.  I've always been too naive.  Now I think we need a manager who's going to kick some serious......
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]Wow, I just read the Globe article "Behind the Collapse."  Wow.  I've always been too naive.  Now I think we need a manager who's going to kick some serious......
    Posted by Critter23[/QUOTE]

    That piece was a piece of sh*t. Some of the worst hack writing I've ever read.
    This is the kind of garbage fans swallow. Did you see one quote from Hohler's "sources"? Of course not. He fused old stuff to blacken the team and try and hasten FO decision-making.

    Trying to use Tito's marital issues was below the belt. This clown should should be fired. In fact, the Globe should own up to letting such BS to be allowed to be printed.

    Makes me sick to read that crap.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : That piece was a piece of sh*t. Some of the worst hack writing I've ever read. This is the kind of garbage fans swallow. Did you see one quote from Hohler's "sources"? Of course not. He fused old stuff to blacken the team and try and hasten FO decision-making. Trying to use Tito's marital issues was below the belt. This clown should should be fired. In fact, the Globe should own up to letting such BS to be allowed to be printed. Makes me sick to read that crap.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
    Reporters corroborate the info they receive with multiple sources. A lot of what was stated included denials from the people involved, for example Tito. Others were asked for their comments but they declined to respond. The information appeared to be presented fairly. There does not appear to me to be anything wrong with this story.

    It's called being a reporter.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    We may be in for a major house cleaning this winter. It doesn't look good. Is Don Baylor still available?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    harness as stated simply does not want to know who the bad apples are, his choice. I do.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    harness just an interesting point but for someone who spends grandoise efforts on venue and cera I would think you would also be interested in measuring attitudes/preparedness and how they can positively or negatively affect the rest of the team.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Harness, you falsely claimed Timmy T-Ball was under 5 ER during loser starts after win 199.

    You don't have a clue and were asleep when I warned about early 6 man coast and caution mode and Timmy-Ball ceremonial tour.

    Without question, a low point was Pedroia being forced to pretend he wanted Wastefield to get win 200 in a bad way. This while Aceves mopped up early deficits of messes that included Timmy T-Ball.

    Im confident Pedroia does not want Timmy T-Ball or Varitek back for 2012. If Epstein goes, essential to recovery, good chance that their old babysitting contract gift feeder won't be around to offer them another 6M to stink it up in 2012.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

      We need a manager who isn't intimidated by multi-million dollar contracts AND the front office to back the manager.  Fines etc. should br imposed for players not following clubhouse rules or any rule where support is needed the the team.  Don't forget if something negative is implied to a player, the implication could hurt the player is future negotiations.

    It bothers me that guys like Beltre, and Martinez were dumped because of better URZ players or whatever.   I say screw thet stats and bring a little humanization to the team....team leaders....clubhouse leaders ....people who want to win for the team...NOT like Wakefield looking for personal glory,

    I'm disgusted.  It seems that when we have winners on the roster, the first thing to do is trade them because the stats don't look right.  I say BS to this.  I'll take a marginal player with a desire anytime over a statistical perfection with zero infuence on the other players of the team. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    amp, well said. Timmy T-Ball and Varitek getting 6 million to stink it up at 40 years old is about as embarrassing as Crawbust finding the biggest sucker in the world in InEpstein. No question Luchino was opposed to Crawbust.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Beltre has a great UZR.  Catcher's UZR is virtually non-existent.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Even though Agon was a great pick up, the impact of that move as compared to just keeping Youk at 1st and Beltre at 3rd might end up being a negative. Youk probably gets hurt regularly diving all over the place at 3rd. Beltre would have helped our pitchers a lot at 3rd as our left side defense has suffered since he left. Also, the minor league players we gave up in that deal were all top level prospects. Finish it with a longer term deal and a lot more money being necessary for Agon and it may just turn out to be a negative. We did net 2 picks though so that helped.

    It's no surprise that Beltre and Victor are still in the playoffs. It was a tough call but it may end up being a bad move even if Agon produces as he did this year going forward. We could have kept everyone and just gotten Fielder for less cash this year, for example. Traded Youk or Beltre now.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    The more I watch baseball, the more I think left side infield defense is important in winning baseball teams. Try and hit the ball through Texas's left side infield. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    It will be interesting what they do at SS this winter. Conventional wisdom is that Iglesias isn't ready offensively but it's possible that they have him learn at the mlb level. His overall defensive value might compensate for him not hitting. I give it a 5-10 % chance at best but it sure would have helped if Iglesias were ready this winter.

    I thought they would pick up Scutaro's option because it is essentially a $4.5 mil cost or so if I remember correctly after factoring for the buy out. Scutaro did hit well and is a type B. We could offer arb and maybe net a pick potentially and hopefully improve our left side D with someone else.

    It would seem that Scutaro is at least a solid insurance policy. It will be interesting to see what they do.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    As much as I like Cherington, I don't see him as the guy we need at this moment in time. We are going to have to clean house.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    By that I don't mean trade everyone but we are going to need a tough guy at GM. Fines and the guts to move guys in trades which will look bad on the surface. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]The more I watch baseball, the more I think left side infield defense is important in winning baseball teams. Try and hit the ball through Texas's left side infield. 
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    ...and thats why I'll take Iggy and his .200 BA as our starting SS.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Harness, I found that article quite compelling.  That stuff has been leaking out since the season ended but not with specifics.  This article had specifics.  I don't hear any of the major characters denying anything--maybe we will.  But I do hear people refusing to respond.  This was a huge failure at the end with millions spent on athletes and coaches who did not produce.  Unfortunately, this is what happens in those cases.  All questions should be asked and all avenues considered.  Two other comments.

    I read about everything RS and hadn't heard a word about Tito's domestic situation.  To me the reporters gave him a break.  To ask if that is a factor now is completely fair in my book--he's a public figure and anyone who's gone through that (I have) is in a state of high stress for a while.  He denies it was a factor. Fine.  I'd bet it was a minor factor, just like his health, and chicken in the clubhouse. 

    Finally, Amp, I'm with you on a tougher manager at this time but I'm not second guessing those two players gone.  14/15 mil is not what you pay for a DH and a catcher who doesn't get the most out of his pitchers.  We thought Agon was better for the RS than Beltre going forward which is yet to be seen.  IF those players were still here and IF they had spoken up, there might have been a difference.  But it sounds like some players did speak up as well as the coach, and were ignored.  Players are only going to be effective speaking up if backed by the manager who is backed by the FO.
     
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