A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Sorry Danny, I think you were the one who wasn't too happy with our potential managers.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    if you want DMAC back in RF, make sure you are ok with a dropped fly ball every other two balls hit that direction. The guy is an absolute butcher in RF, and frankly his .200 batting average isn't exactly brimming me with confidence. Delete DMAC. He served his purpose, now be gone.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Critter, not pleased with direction of team..yes, I'm not. Manager? Well I'll take Lovullo over Sweum if it really is down to those 2. Like Torry's attitude, no idea if he can run a big league clubhouse/dugout and deal with the FishBowl Media.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Yes. And one is still owed $66M with $16M vesting option and the other is owed $12M with a $1M buy out after this year.

    And the guy the RS brought in at 1B just won a GG and was GG good too.

    The Beltre talk will diminsh over time, just like the Damon talk did as Damon became a LF/DH. Not sure where Damon played if still with the RS in 07 and 08. He wasn't beating Manny or Ortiz out of the line-up and certainly could not play RF at any point in his career.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    right, katz, and the 12M/1M buyout guy is a perfect DH now. Just saved the Sox a good 30 mil right there to keep Big Papi, and completely negate the Sox in 
    1. Interleague games, where's Papi going to play? 
    2. If you carry Lavarnway and 3 catcher platoon, what if you got one who is hitting but is not a very good catcher for the staff?
    3. Guys who are dinged up--Scutaro, Youks, Ellsbury, AGON--where do they get to go bat when Papi clogs the DH spot.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Big Papi is the greatest DH in Sox history, maybe top 3 of all-time--Edgar M. and Harold Baines with him--and every year since Interleague play started, it's like watching a team that is stuck. Now bursitis has taken him out of the lineup for extended period. Sorry, time to go, Big Papi. Thank you for your services over the years. Miss your big swing.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingOSmakk. Show KingOSmakk's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Realistically, this is the best you can expect:


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    if you want DMAC back in RF, make sure you are ok with a dropped fly ball every other two balls hit that direction. The guy is an absolute butcher in RF, and frankly his .200 batting average isn't exactly brimming me with confidence. Delete DMAC. He served his purpose, now be gone.
    Posted by dannycater

    He was suspended 5-6 years ago for PED use. You never know what you are going to get with such guys. He's almost definitely gone IMO.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Texas won the AL last year in large part because of the quality of their left side infield D. It helped that entire pitching staff. Beltre's D is huge and a large reason why he sometimes gets phenominal WAR values in his career. We basically paid Adrian Gonzalez $70 mil more for effectively 2 more years. I would have kept Beltre.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Well, it sounds like Chicago is going to take Maddux and we're going to take Sveum.  For some reason I feel we're going to get a pig in a poke and Maddux was the guy.  I think it's strange he waxed so cozy with his wonderful RS opportunity-- and then dropped out.  I think it might have been a done deal in Chicago and I think with most of our investment and problems and potential for going all the way resting on pitching--we should have CHARGED after Maddux.  Just my opinion based on not much of anything except for feel and what I saw during the WS as Maddux worked his staff. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Well, I do like the way Cherington keeps saying "The same candidate would not be right for each job," that is Boston and Chicago.  But with so much of our problem due to pitching, wouldn't it just seem....
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    moon,

    What's your issue with Dmac in right? His value as the 5th Ofer is that he hits RH and can play all three spots? Just curious becaue I seen you make reference to this on numerous occasions?

    DMac is lost in Fenway's RF. He's a great RH'd platoon for CC in LF... ooops, I better not go there.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    I also would like a better hitting reserve OF. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    Critter, not pleased with direction of team..yes, I'm not. Manager? Well I'll take Lovullo over Sweum if it really is down to those 2. Like Torry's attitude, no idea if he can run a big league clubhouse/dugout and deal with the FishBowl Media.
    Posted by dannycater


    I've read good things about Swuem...or whatever, but it is interesting that when the heat was on because of his windmill on 3rd base, he ran to Milwaukee.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    Texas won the AL last year in large part because of the quality of their left side infield D. It helped that entire pitching staff. Beltre's D is huge and a large reason why he sometimes gets phenominal WAR values in his career. We basically paid Adrian Gonzalez $70 mil more for effectively 2 more years. I would have kept Beltre.  
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
    On the money.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    Texas won the AL last year in large part because of the quality of their left side infield D. It helped that entire pitching staff. Beltre's D is huge and a large reason why he sometimes gets phenominal WAR values in his career. We basically paid Adrian Gonzalez $70 mil more for effectively 2 more years. I would have kept Beltre.  
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    No doubt Andrus & Beltre were a large part of the Rangers success. It's ironic that they lost the WS to team with David "hands of stone" Freese manning 3rd. The Rangers were the best team in the AL due to having a deep lineup, and were blessed with health from their starting rotation all year long and also used a very deep system to bolster the pen for the stretch. While tjhe leftside of the infield certainly help contribute to the teams success, they also lost the WS the previous year with Micheal Young playing 3rd...

    While I too would have loved the Sox to resign Beltre. I'd suggest that had our pitching staff not imploded and Youk been healthy all year. We might have have given the Rangers a run for thier money.

    I'll ask you this would you today trade Gonzalez straight up for Beltre?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    Texas won the AL last year in large part because of the quality of their left side infield D. It helped that entire pitching staff. Beltre's D is huge and a large reason why he sometimes gets phenominal WAR values in his career. We basically paid Adrian Gonzalez $70 mil more for effectively 2 more years. I would have kept Beltre.  
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom


    Good, thoughtful post, Boomer.

    I would have been tempted to keep Adrian (Mac Truck) Beltre as well, but I had the distinct impression that he didn't want to stay and Theo (who was indeed in charge at the time) didn't want to keep him because he (Theo) had a man-crush on Gonzalez and was thinking about moving Youk back to 3B.

    In a perfect world, Beltre would have felt the love and stuck around while.  So it goes. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : Good, thoughtful post, Boomer. I would have been tempted to keep Adrian (Mac Truck) Beltre as well, but I had the distinct impression that he didn't want to stay and Theo (who was indeed in charge at the time) didn't want to keep him because he (Theo) had a man-crush on Gonzalez and was thinking about moving Youk back to 3B. In a perfect world, Beltre would have felt the love and stuck around while.  So it goes. 
    Posted by summerof67


    The equasion was more involved than either or and Epstien's man crush on Gonzalez isn't fair to Gonzalez who is among the games best hitters and profiles as the type you build a team around. Let's not foget that he too is a legit gold glover. who IMHO helps improve the entire infield defesne.

    Beltre is a legit talant, but not IMHO a guy that profiles as a lebit #3 or #4. However, Youk is the better hitter and his career OPS morphs that of Beltre's. Both of them have had issues staying on the field due to a myriad of injuries. This past season infact Youk played more games albiet hobbled...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Let's really look at the Sox left side of the infield...the one that will not change with the Sox back to holding on to their cash (until the next over-priced, overblown free agent comes along)....
    3b-Youkilis.....he's had two straight injuryprone years. He has less range as a 3b. His best position was and will always be as a 1b (but he can't play their anymore, and no AROD going to 3b for Jeter is not the same as Youks going to 3b for AGON....AROD has range...still has range..AROD was a SS...still better than Jeter btw if he was moved their tomorrow). He is a major candidate to be dealt (low contract numbers) for a SP, or to move to DH, thus saving the Sox money on trying to resign Big Papi, suddenly a NO. 1 PRIORITY of Ben and the Gang. Aviles has some tools, but again, is he a starter or a backup?

    SS-Scutaro....no question that from an offensive standpoint, he actually hit better than he did in his first year. He's been fighting injuries it seems as he creaks toward his 40s. He's a hot and cold guy, but he's nothing more than adequate as a defender. Again range is a factor and I'll give him that his anticipation skills are very high for his age (my opinion), but he doesn't have the speed to get to balls that other SSs do. I like his attitude and I've grown to like him at the plate in key situations, I think he has often come up with a big at bat when the team is struggling, a good trait, a clutch trait. However, I believe that SS is a defensive position and should be treated as such. If that means this minor league kid can handle the position, maybe just give the kid the position. It's a tough call. But one thing is certain--I don't see Scutaro playing beyond 2012 as a Sox. There is little future with him in a Sox jersey.

    This is the left side of the infield.....not exactly Texas Rangers or pretty much any of the top 20 left sides in baseball--certainly not from a defensive standpoint.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    moon's funny line on DMAC platooning is precisely how bad the CC contract really is. It's to the point where it's clear that CC is a liability v lefty pitching and moon understands that more than anyone in here. We want CC to play out of spite of the contract--he has to play--he makes 142 million. Moon is looking at it from a baseball right thing to do way--most of us and the Sox look at it as this is too big an investment to platoon....sort of like what started happening to Drew last few years. Me? I wish there was a way to just hand him $50 buyout and say CC go play for the Angels...get back Dan Haren in exchange...of course, the Angels would say, no way, and be right to say no way.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    The Rangers have possibly the best defensive SS in the game and the best defensive 3rd baseman in the game plus able backup in Young. All the sudden their pitching looks great. Everyone on the staff looks better. Infield D is a huge factor, especially on that left side.

    I have been a supporter of Theo since day one but I've gotta say that he really blew it bigtime on a lot of deals also. No way he needed that huge offer for the rights to sign Matsuzaka. The Crawford deal was just flat out ignorant. No one was going to pay Crawford $142 mil and even if they did let them do it anyway. They knew Lackey's elbow was a problem, and did allow for it in the contract, but what was to stop Lackey from trying to pitch through it just for the money?$18 mil or so for 30 starts is a lot of incentive. So we end up with a season from him which in fact knocked us completely out of the playoffs. 

    I wish I were warm and fuzzy about Cherington but I'm not. I have no idea how he will do but I'm not confident he is the guy. If he is focused on signing Ortiz right now, rather than spend our available cash for other needs and taking the picks I think that may be a mistake. Ortiz is out promoting puppies and the humane society today. Wow. I'm not disparaging him but that is quintessential pr.

    Man we are close but we need to not blow it. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Bean, I like you point, Beltre for Agon.  I'm with Agon.

    Boom, I was shocked with the CC acquisition and it just didn't make sense to me at the time, it didn't seem to be what we had been looking for, a right handed power hitting right fielder.  Yes, later I was excited about the baserunning possibilities of CC and Ells.  I've always wondered if Theo really wanted that or was it generated from above--like "this is the big thing we're going to do this year and keep him away from NY."  That's what it felt like.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Boom, I'm with you on Papi.  I think we need the picks and give Lava the job--with others in rotation.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Question...did the Rangers actually win the WS? Didn't the Red Sox in fact fail to reach the playoffs in 2010 with Beltre manning 3rd and Youk on 1st? This year, would the Sox have made the playoffs with Beltre manning 3rd and Youk at first with Gonzalez still in San Diego? While 3/5th of thier opening day starting rotation were either hobbled and or lost for most of the season?

    In the end I get that the Sox and Epstein erred in some of thier player aquisitions. Was the Crawford signing the reason for the teams demise this past year? Did Lackey choose to pitch with a bad wing all year or was it a case of him being the best alternative given the options? Trust me everyone associated with the Sox ownership and mangement team lamments that we've missed the post season two year in row.

    In the end Epstein is now a Cub and Cherington is the new sherif. What seems to be lost on most is that the Sox still have a very strong nucleaus of players returning and the resources at thier disposal to continue to fund a payroll second only to the New York Yankees. Far too many have already concluded that the team is somehow in a downward spiral and they lack the understanding of what is the root casues of their recent failings and the wherewithall to change and address those very issues. An opin I don't share...

    Fact: Since winning in 2007 the Red Sox have been in the hunt every year since.
    Fact: in 2008 they were 1 game away from going back to the WS and having the chance to repeat, with a team that was compromised by injuries to Beckett, Lowell, Papi and Drew late in September...

    Fact: in 2009 we won the wildcard and if not for Papelbon blowing a 5-2 lead in the top of the 9th with 2 out and and 0-2 count on Figgins, ending our season. Who knows what might have been with Lester scheduled to pitch game 4 at Fenway...

    Fact: in 2010 and 2011 we were on pace to win in excess of 95 games before the wheels fell off and injuries ultimately derailed the teams chances to qualify for the post season...revisonist historian can try to pursuede us that it was due to Epstein's player aquisitions. While that may well be true in some cases fact is that in 2010 and 2011 our demise can be traced to key injuires of epic proportions...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : No doubt Andrus & Beltre were a large part of the Rangers success. It's ironic that they lost the WS to team with David "hands of stone" Freese manning 3rd. The Rangers were the best team in the AL due to having a deep lineup, and were blessed with health from their starting rotation all year long and also used a very deep system to bolster the pen for the stretch. While tjhe leftside of the infield certainly help contribute to the teams success, they also lost the WS the previous year with Micheal Young playing 3rd... While I too would have loved the Sox to resign Beltre. I'd suggest that had our pitching staff not imploded and Youk been healthy all year. We might have have given the Rangers a run for thier money. I'll ask you this would you today trade Gonzalez straight up for Beltre?
    Posted by Beantowne


    The Rangers lost the World Series because of their closer.  He is a good closer, but couldn't handle the pressure of pitching in the World Series.   Many of the local announcers said that if Papelbon was pitching they would have won.  If he hadn't signed with the Phillies I would imagine that going to the Rangers was a definite possibility.  I also miss Beltre and he is a much better 3rd baseman than Youkilis.  Although, Youk was injured for part of the season.  We can only hope that he is healthy next season, unless he is traded. 
     
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