A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Wouldn't it be something if Larussa suddenly came out of retirement to take the Redsox job at say a 50% higher salary and he brings Duncan with him. The guy is a lawyer. I wouldn't put such a deal past him.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    I like Valantine as an commentator, but that doesn't mean he'd be a good manager for this team. I don't really know.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Boom, I like your idea of manager and pitching coach and agree that Valentine is the type of guy who shapes things up and then goes.  I have been very impressed with Hershizer's analysis of pitching too.

    Burrito, where did you get that picture?  Wow!

    Amp, I agree with you but I don't get why people are upset with the cribbage games.  I read somewhere else that that made Pedey "a pet."  From my understanding, there are always card games going on in a clubhouse.  Would the players really think Pedey is a favorite?  lf that really happened, then I guess it should end.  I think Tito kept him out of games when he didn't want to stay out or needed a rest or wasn't completely healthy.  Other than that does Pedey ever really give you a reason to discipline him?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Nice picture, Burrito! Is the guy, 2nd from right, is that Tim Wakefield?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from joegator. Show joegator's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    I am a life long Red Sox fan trying to wrap up my dissertation which deals with the Red Sox and Fenway Park. Please take a few minutes -10max- and fill out the following survey. It is quick and easy and it would help a fellow Sox fan out a great deal. Thanks for help in advance Here is the link to the survey:

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/R7WWD8S

    And after much reflection I must say Tito did get a raw deal there should not have been anything said about his family life or health issues. I am not sure if I am happy about Theo leaving or not still working that one out
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Yeah, the three guys on the left are carrying beer and fried chicken in those bags.  They must be the pitchers.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    So, 2 type As (Papi and Paps) and a 2 type Bs (Wheeler & VTek). We could stockpile some picks again this year.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I



    Crit,

    I just think there should be a little psychological barrier between managers and players......ideally.  Realistically, with todays prima donnas and forever contracts, the players life-span probably exceeds the managers.  This, I believe, is one of the weaknesses in baseball today.  The players run the teams and not the manager.  And why should a manager have to 'motivate' a player/team?  What the hell ever happened to self-motivation, accountability, responsibility, pride, honor?

    I'd love to see a GM tell the players that the manager has the power to deal with any insubordination or disruptive behavior...in the media.  The media would love it, fans would love it, and players/agents would hate it........players union be damned.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goofywocky. Show Goofywocky's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    might be sveum, an inside deal from way back, from the secret hand
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]Nice picture, Burrito! Is the guy, 2nd from right, is that Tim Wakefield?
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    ROFL!  


    critter simple google of Red Sox 1912... I love the old stuff.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Softlaw I did not want to do a disservice to Wakefield and imply he was any older than he truly is so I GOOGLE'd up his rookie card for you... he looks a bit hung-over here.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    I'd love to see a GM tell the players that the manager has the power to deal with any insubordination or disruptive behavior...in the media.  The media would love it, fans would love it, and players/agents would hate it........players union be damned.

    I'd love it too, but not all managers would be tough.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Burrr, how about an old pic of VTek?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]Crit, I just think there should be a little psychological barrier between managers and players......ideally.  Realistically, with todays prima donnas and forever contracts, the players life-span probably exceeds the managers.  This, I believe, is one of the weaknesses in baseball today.  The players run the teams and not the manager.  And why should a manager have to 'motivate' a player/team?  What the hell ever happened to self-motivation, accountability, responsibility, pride, honor? I'd love to see a GM tell the players that the manager has the power to deal with any insubordination or disruptive behavior...in the media.  The media would love it, fans would love it, and players/agents would hate it........players union be damned.
    Posted by ampoule[/QUOTE]Star players almost always out lived managers even in the reserve clause era. Talent between the lines is rarer than talent making out line-up cards. Dick Williams lost his clubhouse and then his job.

    And let's not confuse ripping players in the media with a good structured environment. The Patriots Bill Belichick runs one tight operation but he will discuss internal communications or discipline ever.

    Amp I agree to an extent about players needing to have character. But head coaches and managers are responsible for creating environments that are highly conducive to to self-motivation, accountability, responsibility, pride, and honor. Francona's approach worked for him to that end for a long time. Over time it appears that some of his tactics began to allow for a slow erosion of those factors. It became full exposed in September of 2011 and Francona by his account did not feel comfortable with changing his tactics to deal with it.

    I think the changes in culture are more minor for the next leadership team than some think. Players at the core want to play and want to win when they play. It is human nature and the nature of every competitor. I don't think anybody's rear is going to have to kicked in, parameters will be set in the spring and if guys are reminded early and often if they stray from those expectations everything will be fine. 

    I certainly don't think that feeding the dark side of what can be a very dark market every time there is a breach is a very good way to go myself. The market is tough enough to play in already. It provides a lot less privacy than NY or LA  or Chicago, has a media and fanbase as rabid (both good and bad) and the home facilities are cramped.

    Yogi Berra famously said that "Baseball is 90% mental -- the other half is physical."
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    What do you guys think of this deal?

    Youk 12:$12M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
    Salty 3 arbs left after making $.75M
    Iggy 12: $2M,  13: $2.25M
    Weiland pre-arb
    Bowden pre-arb

    for

    Cueto 12:$5.4M, 13:$7.4M, 14:$10M, 15:$10M club option ($0.8M buyout)
    Rolen  12:$6.5RM 
    Ramon Hernandez (if he takes the arb offer after making $3.25M in 2012)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]What do you guys think of this deal? Youk  12 :$12M,  13 :$13M club option ($1M buyout) Salty 3 arbs left after making $.75M Iggy 12: $2M,  13: $2.25M Weiland pre-arb Bowden pre-arb for Cueto  12 :$5.4M,  13 :$7.4M,  14 :$10M,  15 :$10M club option ($0.8M buyout) Rolen   12 :$6.5RM   Ramon Hernandez (if he takes the arb offer after making $3.25M in 2012)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    The Cincinnati Reds last season finished fifth of 30 teams in hitting Wins Above Replacement (WAR), but 28th of 30 teams in pitching WAR.

    With that in mind, I don't see the Reds trading away their best pitcher -- 25-year-old stud starter Johnny Cueto -- for an aging Kevin Youkilis and the Red Sox spare parts.

    Cincinnati has two of the top catching prospects in baseball in 22-year-olds Devin Mesoraco and Yasmani Grandal, and therefore would have little interest in the .288 OBP and $1.6 million* projected 2012 salary of Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    * http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/projected-arbitration-salaries.html
     
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    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]Hernandez was just granted free agency was he not?
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    was he?

    I'd look to deal Salty and sign him, but I figure those odds to be near nill.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]What do you guys think of this deal? Youk  12 :$12M,  13 :$13M club option ($1M buyout) Salty 3 arbs left after making $.75M Iggy 12: $2M,  13: $2.25M Weiland pre-arb Bowden pre-arb for Cueto  12 :$5.4M,  13 :$7.4M,  14 :$10M,  15 :$10M club option ($0.8M buyout) Rolen   12 :$6.5RM   Ramon Hernandez (if he takes the arb offer after making $3.25M in 2012)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] if i was the cincy GM and you came in with this offer of 5 better-than-5-scuffed balls for a stud 25 year old frontline pitcher i'd grab the heavy 38 oz. bat and do some serious damage
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Hernandez was just granted free agency was he not?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]What do you guys think of this deal? Youk  12 :$12M,  13 :$13M club option ($1M buyout) Salty 3 arbs left after making $.75M Iggy 12: $2M,  13: $2.25M Weiland pre-arb Bowden pre-arb for Cueto  12 :$5.4M,  13 :$7.4M,  14 :$10M,  15 :$10M club option ($0.8M buyout) Rolen   12 :$6.5RM   Ramon Hernandez (if he takes the arb offer after making $3.25M in 2012)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    On the Redsox side, iggy might be the most valuable commodity we would be offering in that trade. I don't think Cincy makes that trade either.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    On the Redsox side, iggy might be the most valuable commodity we would be offering in that trade. I don't think Cincy makes that trade either.

    My point on Iggy is that I don't think it is necessary that he hit over .260 to be a valuable MLB SS. It appears the Sox do. That being said, they should just deal him then, since I do not think he will "get there" before his contract runs out. I don't want to trade him, but if we are not going to give him a chance, then get the most we can for him in trade. I think many other teams still have him rated high and realize the true value of a great fielding SS..
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]On the Redsox side, iggy might be the most valuable commodity we would be offering in that trade. I don't think Cincy makes that trade either. My point on Iggy is that I don't think it is necessary that he hit over .260 to be a valuable MLB SS. It appears the Sox do. That being said, they should just deal him then, since I do not think he will "get there" before his contract runs out. I don't want to trade him, but if we are not going to give him a chance, then get the most we can for him in trade. I think many other teams still have him rated high and realize the true value of a great fielding SS..
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    I know he originally signed to a mlb contract so his clock is ticking. I do think they still regard him highly though an I'm confident he is still in their plans. We will see him at some point in 2012 I'm sure.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Boom, we have Scutty this year. We have Aviles and Lowrie this year and beyond. Unless there is an injury or steep decline, Iggy will not get significant MLB time here until 2013 at best. That leaves one year of possible meaningful use under his current contract. To me, his 2 year worth to another team is worth more than one possible use here. And, since we don't value fielding SS that much, he may never make it here as a FT'er. I think it is time to trade him. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I


    A couple people suggested Valentine as manager.  I'm not really sure that would work.

    I think work ethic, respect for elders, training in Japan is totally different than in the US.  Remember when Matsui broke his wrist against the Sox?  After the injury, he went around apoligizing to his teammates for hurting himself.  Can you imagine Drew or anyone else doing something like that? Team spirit and accountability is what they have.  Valentine inherited that over there.

    The discipline and training, if done the Japanese way for a Japanese player, is also inherent.  This ingrained philosophy on American teams just doesn't exist anymore.  Discipline isn't really needed on Japanese teams because it's what expected of them and they don't want to embarass themselves or the team/motherland.  Yes, maybe once upon a time this attitude existed here, but now only for certain individual players, not the whole team as one. Valentine would have to deal with this.  It wouldn't be inherited.

    I've read on numerous occasions that there have been Japanese players who get totally embarassed when a error is made by them...sometimes to tears. Is this overboard? yes, of course, but it's how they are culturally raised to perform.  I did, when playing...too bad I didn't enought talent.*laugh* 

    In essence,  I think managing in Japan is completely different than managing here in the US. A benefit for a person like Valentine could possibly be to understand the Japanese player better than some.  But, I'm sure every team already has their experts in place to deal with foreign players.

    I've had a few bosses who weren't worth their weight in used toilet paper.  I've had a few, who to this day, I'd cut off my left testicle for.  Respect is EARNED, and only in one who has his teams total respect without favoritism will succeed.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    amp, good take on Valantine. I really don't know if he'd be a good manager or not, I just hope Ben knows what he is doing.
     
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