A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    yes, i budded into your argument with roy, and yes I realize you don't like people criticizing Bobby Valentine.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II : I think my point is you're an obnoxious, elitist, think you know-it-all blowhard. But don't take that personally.
    Posted by dannycater
    That's the kind of thing that people who lose arguments always say.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    yes, i budded into your argument with roy, and yes I realize you don't like people criticizing Bobby Valentine.
    Posted by dannycater
    I must not care much for myself then. So far, I have criticized him for sending Iglesias home from third ( on a straight steal or suicide squeeze ), for waving good-bye to Ozzie, for going public about Youkilis, and there will be more. 
    Either you can't read or you don't keep track of things or you don't pay much attention to my posts except when you impulsively budd in and get squashed. Mind you, I don't give a flying fandango whether you do or don't read what I post, but when you do and mess up, expect hear about it.
    What you think of me ranks as a grand irrelevancy.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    You made it personal, I just followed up. I felt you were making a long argument about what roy threw out as an example, and that you inferred as him second-guessing BV. Maybe it's the same thing as Bobby V saying what he said about Youkilis, then have it snowball into something that he intended it not to be. Roy used an example of second-guessing that you kept going on post, after post about. Why was it so important for you to argue that point? Did that make you feel better about yourself? I saw it as a wasted argument, but I did bud into, and I probably should not have as it was between you and roy.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    Hey Danny, is this J-Bay, who lives in Southern Conn. and is the outsourced moderator of BDC, the same guy named Tim that was PSF on the old Portlandsoxfan.com website and chat room? Who here is Rich or Waldo in here?  My bet is that MBF / ChrisHouse is Babe. You really knew what buttons to push over at that site to get everyone pizzed off at you.
    Posted by Firefligh2008


     I don't think any of those posters are on this board. But for the record, all three of them are my friends (and Wally is a good guy, so maybe 4 then). As for people being upset, that's their problem.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    And back to Pedroia and his quote. I thought it was hilarious, and I saw nothing wrong with it at all. It's the type of quote that few have done in that clubhouse. For years and years, little drama in the manager-player relationships. Now, lots of drama. Some a little less serious than what Pedey said. Bobby V may very well be out of his element in Boston. That's on Larry L.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II : I think my point is you're an obnoxious, elitist, think you know-it-all blowhard. But don't take that personally.
    Posted by dannycater



    didn't you say the same thing about harness last year, a blowhard know it all? I won't repeat what you called me though... but I still like u  Laughing
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Seven good innings tonight by Beckett... I am so thankful BV is keeping these guys in there; Tito would have pulled Beckett after 6, saving his arm for an October that never comes.

    moon so you like having Ortiz batting 5th? I would prefer he bat immediately after AGon.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    You made it personal, I just followed up. I felt you were making a long argument about what roy threw out as an example, and that you inferred as him second-guessing BV. Maybe it's the same thing as Bobby V saying what he said about Youkilis, then have it snowball into something that he intended it not to be. Roy used an example of second-guessing that you kept going on post, after post about. Why was it so important for you to argue that point? Did that make you feel better about yourself? I saw it as a wasted argument, but I did bud into, and I probably should not have as it was between you and roy.
    Posted by dannycater
    Arguments on this board never make me feel better or worse about myself. There is real life for that.
    Roy kept going too. It was an ARGUMENT. He started by being sure that Valentine had sent Punto on contact, and second-guessed the manager's call. I came in and said I think in that situation a contact play was unlikely. Roy said what about Punto going on the foul ball. And I said. And he said. And finally he said if it was a contact play.  He and I agreed that it's usually a stupid play.
    Who are you to say how long an argument should be, or anything else about it, for that matter, except for its content? Which you got wrong. I didn't infer anything. Roy stated flatly as the start that the contact play was on. If he wasn't second-guessing Valentine, then why bring up the topic at all? Just to make a general point? That doesn't make sense. Roy made sense from his point of view. I disagreed. Yes, you should have stayed out of it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Tough loss. If Salty's liner finds a hole...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

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    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    Tough loss. If Salty's liner finds a hole...
    Posted by moonslav59
    That was a rocket, right at Snyder unfortunately.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II : didn't you say the same thing about harness  last year, a blowhard know it all? I won't repeat what you called me though... but I still like u  
    Posted by BurritoT


    I think I did, but in all honesty, i really grew to like harness. He was fun to converse with .
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    burrito, i've always enjoyed your wit. We don't agree on a lot, but that's a good thing. Otherwise, the forum would get boring in a hurry.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    I used to call you twice-grilled because El Pollo Loco would make these really yummy "twice-grilled" chicken burritos.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    I've been gone for a while but I see the forum has it's normal eb and flow!

    Man, it's going to hurt to lose Ellsbury for an extended period. We needed him badly. This is not the same lineup without him driving it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    For all you "Montero is SO MUCH BETTER A PROSPECT guys, ask yourself if he will ever throw out 4 of the first 7 base runners he faces while catching, with no errors so far and only 1 passed ball in 10 games played:


    Lavarnway also just creamed 2 HR and has an OBP of .400 so far, getting tons of respect from opposing pitchers. He's in the conversation. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    I've been gone for a while but I see the forum has it's normal eb and flow! Man, it's going to hurt to lose Ellsbury for an extended period. We needed him badly. This is not the same lineup without him driving it.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
    Tis true, oh, so true. And his absence causes dislocations in the outfield and in the batting order. 

     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    I'm not saying Lavarnway is a better prospect. I'm just saying they are in the same conversation. Some don't even consider it worthy of discussion. Lavarnway may actually end up the better player. I'm not saying it's definite or even all that likely but it is certainly possible. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    I'm gonna give BV the benefit of the doubt here.  Let's say for the sake of argument that he really wasn't taking a shot at Youk and more just indicating Youk's not happy and not playing well.  Which is believable.  Youk is very intense and not happy when he's not hitting.  So BV says it, it gets blown up (of course), and now players (Pedey) start piping up about how "this is not the way we do things around here"..  Well guess what, that IS the way we do things now.  As much as some of us loved the guy, Tito is not walking through that door anytime soon.  So this is now the Bobby Valentine show, and the quicker the players get on board the better.  This team has the talent now, and when the injured folks start getting back it could be a huge lift.  Clubhouse dissension could destroy any chance of that.
    Posted by angeroo

    Considering his history Ang I don't see why you would give BV the benefit of doubt.  I find it very difficult to take the BV comment to mean anything other than him calling KY p****whipped.   BV has watched KY go nuts with every K for years, and now he just smirks.  Maybe he just grew up and/or his head is elsewhere.

    IMO BV was way to personal and if it was a motivational tactic there are many better ways.  I expect more diplomacy from a mature BV than DP.  Ultimately DP will be quiet b/c he wants to win, but just under the surface he knows BV is a very flawed man.

    side note:  As a teenager I played basketball as if my life depended on it.  One night my new stunning girl-friend came to a game and after the game a teammate called me out for being so mellow and polite on court.  He was right, but if I could've bottled up and sold the "feelings" I felt for her at the time I would be a very rich man.   Poor (lucky) Youk.



     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Just a thought.... if this team is suffering come July 1st I would launch Kasko's Kiddie's Plan II.

    I only now paid attention to the fact the team could easily shed 65% of its starters by next February. Bare in mind Crawford/Lackey are here to stay...

    1B)  AGon
    2B)  Pedey
    LF)  Crawford

    #2)  Lester
    #3)  Beckett
    #4)  Lackey

    Pen/Starter)  Bard

    That really is it. All the others can be changed out.  I think maybe trading Elles works as you get great value in return and Hamilton, McCann, and some other very good players are out there next winter.

    How about Hamilton in RF next year?  Or either Montero/Mcann catching with Lavarnway as CA/DH?

    Think about it.

    The only way to know how the rookies can handle a full-time role is to get them up here in July.

    Anyone in with me?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Considering his history Ang I don't see why you would give BV the benefit of doubt.  I find it very difficult to take the BV comment to mean anything other than him calling KY p****whipped.   BV has watched KY go nuts with every K for years, and now he just smirks.  Maybe he just grew up and he his head is elsewhere.

    I was one of the few on this board who supported Manny when he tried to take Youk down a notch. (I also heard that many on the team were on manny's side as well.) Being super demonstrative after every K or mistake is not always a good thing or a bad thing, but clearly Youk has changed. I'm not inside Youk's head, so I won't pretend to know if being calmer is helpful or not. The old rage-filled Youk was pretty darn good, but I think his antic's effect on the club might not have always been a positive thing. 

    We saw the great disparity between the Nixon attitude and the JD Drew attitude, and many (I feel) mistook, Drew's demeanor for an attitude of not caring. Being "calm" works for some player: others, maybe not.

    I like Bobby V, but even the best psychologist in the world would never feel certain that calling Youk out is going to work or fail or not make a difference at all. I do think the team probably didn't like it, and may now be in fear of Bobby V calling them out as well. And, again, this may work for some players, but fail for others.

    tom, I was like you as a teen and into my early 20's. I was a fierce competitor and hated to lose. I was also a hot head, until one time after throwing a basketball at an undeserving opponent, my coach benched me for the rest of the game and had a long talk with me afterwards. He was a great coach. I never stopped being fierce, but I did stay civil after that moment. Now, I seem to take another view. I liked the calm batting approach of Manny vs the tantrums of Nixon. Manny raely argued with UMPs or even looked disgusted at all after a key strikeout. I think that calm is what made "Manny"  Manny. I don't think Nixon could have been who he was by trying to stay calm. He was who he was as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we don't really know what's happening with Youk. I hope he gets back to his .390+ OBP and fielding his position adequately. With Jacoby out, we need everyone else to chip in.


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Just a thought.... if this team is suffering come July 1st I would launch Kasko's Kiddie's Plan II.

    I only now paid attention to the fact the team could easily shed 65% of its starters by next February. Bare in mind Crawford/Lackey are here to stay...

    1B)  AGon
    2B)  Pedey
    LF)  Crawford

    #2)  Lester
    #3)  Beckett
    #4)  Lackey

    Pen/Starter)  Bard

    That really is it. All the others can be changed out.  I think maybe trading Elles works as you get great value in return and Hamilton, McCann, and some other very good players are out there next winter.

    How about Hamilton in RF next year?  Or either Montero/Mcann catching with Lavarnway as CA/DH?

    Think about it.

    The only way to know how the rookies can handle a full-time role is to get them up here in July.

    Anyone in with me?

    I started a "what if" thread this past winter basically raising this same issue. I think a good argument could be made (not saying I agree with it or not), that since management appeared to not being "going all oput" to build a "favorite to win" team, that perhaps they should just shoot for 2013 or 2014 and dump salary for prospects while deciding to keep key players who have longterm deals. 

    I did mention trying to trade CC though. Paying some of his deal or perhaps taking on a large salary for another team (like Zito, Peavey or Zambrano/Soriano). 

    On paper, I still see this team (when 90-95% healthy) as a strong team with a decent chance to win it all, but I did think we could have been a top contender with just one big move (see my winter Gavin Floyd rants). To be fair, I also mentioned the opposite approach: not just trading prospects for Floyd, but also dealing Iggy if we weren't going to play him. I think management is playing the middle of the road, and I'm not arguing with this even-handed philosophy, but I'm hungry for another ring, and think we need to identify which of the next 3 years is our best shot and go for it.

    This team has never really been big sellers at the deadline or August waiver wire time. They've sold off a piece here and there, but never wholesale. It could be interesting if we are 12 games back on July 31st.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    m
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    a 1 year rental on ells with a minimum $20 million a year on his future contract and dealing with boras will get you a good return but not a great value return
     
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