A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In response to "Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II": [QUOTE]This has the ring of truth--to me, anyway. Any comment, moonslav. I do not pretend to know what the CWS want in return and who they like on our team. I must have made 20 suggested offers this winter, most including Middlebrooks or Ranaudo. I'm not sure I want to part with Middlebrooks now, but I guess it looks like the White Sox wanted a catcher. I'd still give: Salty, Ranaudo, Anderson and Coyle for Floyd or Lava, Ranaudo, Anderson and Tejada Maybe the CWS like Mortensen or Melancon. Essentially, I have held the position that we can afford to take a hit on offense and some of the future for a solid arm like Floyd for 2 years at a $3.9M/yr luxury tax hit. Wandy would involve the Stros paying some of his deal. Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] Moon, the White Sox are 2 games out of 1st, I would doubt that Floyd will be available anytime soon....
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Ex, I don't think he's dull and agree with you on his coaching lately.  You talk a lot about getting in heads.  I think I reported exactly what happened.  No I don't know what Jim Leyland or any other coach would do.  Maybe I should have been more precise and said I believe after having watched baseball at all levels since about 1953 the majority of coaches would have taken him out after two balks.  My sole point in all this is I don't think he has been as sharp as he will be.  When I said it the first time, you acted like I didn't have a right to say that.  I've given you two examples now, and if don't agree, fine.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Moon, the White Sox are 2 games out of 1st, I would doubt that Floyd will be available anytime soon....

    I agree. I was responding to another poster's question.

    The trade deadline is a long way away. By then the WS may be 12 behind (as could we).
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Don't let expitch intimidate you, critter. You are entitled to your opinions on this thread or any other thread. I don't agree with his bullying tactics or Mr. Peabody approach. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Thank you Danny.  I want to ask him what he means by "He looks flighty in general.  He chews on himself in the dugout..."  It looks like he's trying to get into someone else's head when he has no idea what the guy is really thinking.  After all, isn't that just a snapshot of a moment, a fleeting impression of emotions which is impossible for us to understand or interpret, something that might have completely changed a few minutes later?  Ha!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Thank you Danny.  I want to ask him what he means by "He looks flighty in general.  He chews on himself in the dugout..."  It looks like he's trying to get into someone else's head when he has no idea what the guy is really thinking.  After all, isn't that just a snapshot of a moment, a fleeting impression of emotions which is impossible for us to understand or interpret, something that might have completely changed a few minutes later?  Ha!
    Posted by Critter23[/QUOTE]expitch just likes to argue. He's generally ok though. Hey are you going to see Sox A's in July?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    well, precisely. all of us can look at a particular play and say he's out, no he's safe, or wow it's too close to call. Three different interpretations of something we saw. That's a visual, but as far as mental or getting into a head of a player or a manager--well, that's pure speculation on all of our parts. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II




      Y O U K !!!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Moon, the White Sox are 2 games out of 1st, I would doubt that Floyd will be available anytime soon.... I agree. I was responding to another poster's question. The trade deadline is a long way away. By then the WS may be 12 behind (as could we).
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Very true....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Ex, I don't think he's dull and agree with you on his coaching lately.  You talk a lot about getting in heads.  I think I reported exactly what happened.  No I don't know what Jim Leyland or any other coach would do.  Maybe I should have been more precise and said I believe after having watched baseball at all levels since about 1953 the majority of coaches would have taken him out after two balks.  My sole point in all this is I don't think he has been as sharp as he will be.  When I said it the first time, you acted like I didn't have a right to say that.  I've given you two examples now, and if don't agree, fine.
    Posted by Critter23[/QUOTE]
    You have a right to say anything you like, and, in turn, I have a right to question it, as in "How do you know?"  You can say with absolute authority, "I would have yanked him." That's it. Even after all those years of watching the game, you can't still know what a manager will do. Why does all that time make you necessarily any more authoritative? So definite about it.

    My real beef is that you do too much long-distance psychologizing.
    Considering that BV has been feeling his way with a team that was a disaster, I think he's been doing right well.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    I'm going to go back to an issue I have brought up before, namely the state of our pitching staff.

    Despite having Lackey, Dice-K, Cook, Carlson and others out of action due to injury, we still have a very deep staff (particularly in the pen), but it is so deep and so mediocre, that we can't likely need or use them all effectively.

    There are many MLB teams in dire need of bullpen help and/or depth.  I still think we can improve our staff by trying to trade 2-3 mediocre to decent pitchers for one better one (we may have to wait until the deadline, but maybe not).

    Here's how our staff looks right now...

    13 Starters: Beckett, Lester, Buchholtz, Doubront, Bard, Dice-K (inj), Cook (inj), Lackey (2013), Germano, Duckworth, Mathis, Pena, and Olendorf

    11 Relievers: Aceves, Padilla, Morales, RHill, Albers, Atchison, Miller, Mortensen, Tazawa, Melancon, Carlson (inj)

    With Buch struggling, our need for a quality starter is greater than many want to believe it is.  Doubront has shown signs of quality, but he has a WHIP above 1.400, and ERA near 5.00, and had motivational issues last winter/spring. Bard is a big question mark as a starter. 

    This team is hard to gauge. At times, it seems like we might do better planning for 2013 and beyond and hoping for the best with this flawed team of 2012. At other times, it seems we are so close to the wild card slot, have several injured played close to returning, and are just a piece or two away from being a top contender in 2012.

    To try and maximize our chance to win this year without over-leveraging our future is always a tough line to walk for a GM. 

    I've mentioned specific trades and specific names all winter and spring. To me, it's a philosophical view. I know a rash of injuries would make Ben look foolish if he traded 3 pitchers for 1, but I think we need to strongly consider upgrading a pitching slot by lessening our depth, hopefully, without losing a top prospect(s).

    I know we are not going to get much by trading 3 of these guys: Cook, Albers, Atchison and/or Miller, but I do think trading for a better starter by maybe offering Buch and 2 of these guys (Miller, Albers, Atchison or Miller) could net us a better starter. A team looking to the future would much prefer a package including guys with more team control at lower costs: Morales, Mortensen, Melancon, Tazawa or possibly Bard, but I wouldn't trade 2-3 of these guys for a 2 month rental or even a 1.3 year controlled starter.

    I didn't get into dealing prospects, and I'd really prefer not to have to do that, but we do have some prospects that are blocked (Gomez, Anderson & Coyle) and a lot of young propsects ready to rocket up the prospect charts this summer.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    When the offense puts runs up early and

    scores 4 or more earned runs, they are

    19-3.

    When the offense scores 3 earned runs or

    less, they are 1-18

    Poster child game, tonight. Pitching did it's job, offense did not!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Pretty pathetic that our pitching staff has only pitched well enough to win 1 out of 19 low scoring games.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    You have to win low scoring games. That's just the way it is. The teams that can find ways to win those 2-1, 3-2, 4-1 type contests more often are going to have superb records. The Sox are a schitzoid offense that either puts up big numbers or goes really silent--and that's just a recipe for disaster--unless.....the pitching is so good that you can win one night 15-2 and the next night 3-2. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    The Sox have scored 0-3 runs in 
                           16 of 43 games.
    The Yankees 17 times.
    The Rangers 13 times.
    The TB Rays 20 times.

    I don't see this as the key reason we are still below .500.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    Maybe it's not having CC and Lackey...They played better with both on the roster.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Thank you Danny.  I want to ask him what he means by "He looks flighty in general.  He chews on himself in the dugout..."  It looks like he's trying to get into someone else's head when he has no idea what the guy is really thinking.  After all, isn't that just a snapshot of a moment, a fleeting impression of emotions which is impossible for us to understand or interpret, something that might have completely changed a few minutes later?  Ha!
    Posted by Critter23[/QUOTE]
    I've also got your back Crit regarding expitch. He needs to take a chill pill sometimes. Just move on is my recommendation.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    We have 3 guys in AAA ball who could probably step right in and contribute right now with most mlb pens. Maybe we should stretch one of these guys out but we do have Cook and Matsuzaka almost ready. Mortensen is looking like the right handed Oki so I'd leave that quirky changeup at the ready as pen depth. Taz probably is the best option of the group but he doesn't look like an ideal option as a starter at all. Melancon is out. 

    Maybe Padilla gets that call. I'm not giving up on Buchholz or Bard though. Either could turn things around at any time IMO. Buchholz was excellent for the past 2 years. He has earned some respect and so many of us are now throwing him under the bus after 7 starts, coming back from not having pitched the entire 2nd half last year. 

    Oswalt is the obvious solution but I just doubt that is going to happen. He looks more like a St. Louis signing or someone in the NL to me. If he wanted to sign with the Sox he probably had ample opportunities last winter.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    If we need someone, we seem to have a lot of pen talent available and could probably trade one. I like that we have several good LH options available. That hasn't been the case for a long while.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Thank you Danny.  I want to ask him what he means by "He looks flighty in general.  He chews on himself in the dugout..."  It looks like he's trying to get into someone else's head when he has no idea what the guy is really thinking.  After all, isn't that just a snapshot of a moment, a fleeting impression of emotions which is impossible for us to understand or interpret, something that might have completely changed a few minutes later?  Ha!
    Posted by Critter23[/QUOTE]
    Well, let's put it this way. When several shots in a row show a young man sitting bent over with his head between his hands, after he's been lifted from a game, and then pacing before he returns to the bent over position, it doesn't take a forensics degree to read his emotions. As opposed to say "seeing" a man looking like a deer with headlights in his eyes. I'll lay big odds that if you asked X viewers whether they thought BV looked scared or Buchholz looked downcast, the latter interpretation would win overwhelmingly. Because one of them is obvious. BV at times looks concerned or disappointed. All managers do at times. But you used a specific phrase, "deer in the headlights," which can be taken to mean "get me out of here," or the like. 
    I was a pitcher, a pitching coach, and a head coach. Buchholz gives clear signs of flightiness sometimes on the mound. I've seen them before. With men on base, he nervously fakes throws and wanders around the mound area. Then he throws to a base pointlessly. He fiddles around. ( Listen to Eck on this subject. ) If you are a coach and don't know how to read these signs, seek another line of work. In general, Buchholz has not looked steady or in command. You asked me. I told you. I made a professional judgment.
    In the mind-reading department, nothing quite tops your claim to knowing what Leyland would have done in a specific situation with a specific pitcher on the mound at a specific point in the season. Other managers too, according to you.
    There are distinctions to be noted. I have pointed them out.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II : I've also got your back Crit regarding expitch. He needs to take a chill pill sometimes. Just move on is my recommendation.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    C'mon, Boom, you went ballistic immediately when I questioned your statement about Bautistic. Whether either of us was right or wrong is another question. But I believe that your first response to my challenge served up the F-bomb.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II : expitch just likes to argue. He's generally ok though. Hey are you going to see Sox A's in July?
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]
    Hey, Carnie. This is a forum. I thought that's a place where arguments occur. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]Don't let expitch intimidate you, critter. You are entitled to your opinions on this thread or any other thread. I don't agree with his bullying tactics or Mr. Peabody approach. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    We are all entitled to our opinions and to opinions about opinions. How opinions are responded to depends upon how they are stated. See Andrew. See your rants about BV. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    As I've said elsewhere, I like this club's chances if they can hang in there until everyone is healthy and stays healthy. It has a roster with notable talents. ( Joe keeps talking about all the "all-stars." That a designation for honors over time. But ask Terry about those all-stars last September. They cost him his job. All stars are players who perform like all stars, not ones who have the honor on their resume. Baseball is about now. ) It has started to click. It is being well managed, by and large. It has many attractive personalities and a few intriguing ones. Maybe some people are playing over their heads -- like, say, Nava and Scutaro -- but that is part of what makes the club likable. Salty is coming into his own and, as BV has said, is taking on more of a leadership role. Catchers need to do that.
    The big exception so far is Gonzalez. He is playing under his head. ( He made funny remarks about being only a "two tool" player: he can catch and throw. ) But he's very much on the team. He'll play cheerfully where he's put. He supports his teammates. One keeps thinking, "This can't go on." The big stick will show up any day now. One pulls hard for him. When he heats up, this club could really be dangerous.
    All in all, IMO, the developments this season have been fascinating and generally encouraging.  Whatever the outcome, this team is doing its best to blow away the bad odor from last year. You can't ask anything more from a team.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II

    In Response to Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part II:
    [QUOTE]As I've said elsewhere, I like this club's chances if they can hang in there until everyone is healthy and stays healthy. It has a roster with notable talents. ( Joe keeps talking about all the "all-stars." That a designation for honors over time. But ask Terry about those all-stars last September. They cost him his job. All stars are players who perform like all stars, not ones who have the honor on their resume. Baseball is about now. ) It has started to click. It is being well managed, by and large. It has many attractive personalities and a few intriguing ones. Maybe some people are playing over their heads -- like, say, Nava and Scutaro -- but that is part of what makes the club likable. Salty is coming into his own and, as BV has said, is taking on more of a leadership role. Catchers need to do that. The big exception so far is Gonzalez. He is playing under his head. ( He made funny remarks about being only a "two tool" player: he can catch and throw. ) But he's very much on the team. He'll play cheerfully where he's put. He supports his teammates. One keeps thinking, "This can't go on." The big stick will show up any day now. One pulls hard for him. When he heats up, this club could really be dangerous. All in all, IMO, the developments this season have been fascinating and generally encouraging.  Whatever the outcome, this team is doing its best to blow away the bad odor from last year. You can't ask anything more from a team.  
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]
    Oops, my mistake. I meant Aviles not Scutaro. Sorry.

     
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