A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to ampoule's comment:



    Well, searching for my real old posts seems impossible, yet, I'd like to post something which I said juat about the time Valentine was hired on.

    I said at that time that BV would not succeed because of the different psychological approach between Japanese and USA phylosophy comcerning players,  In Japan,  respect is automatic, whereas in the USA respect must be earned.

    It doesn't seem BV has the respect of any players.

    Bobby expects his 'old-time Japanese' approach will work.  I think that after almost a full season has not lived up to  its expectency. In ssesnce, Bobby must go.













    g\\


























    \



    Whether Bobby stays or goes, or should stay or should go, I doubt that we have any reliable way of knowing what goes on behind the scenes in this organization, or about interpersonal relations, including respect or disrespect or neutrality. For one, I haven't seen enough specific evidence to support a lot of the talk on the board. 
    Americans who have taught English in Japan says that respect from the young is a lot less "automatic" than in the old days. Elders complain about it. I wouldn't be surprised if baseball coaches and managers do as well. 
    Owing to technology, there is now for the first time in history a global youth culture. Its main theme is not "respect your elders" or "respect authority." Far from it.  That said, I have no way of knowing about BV's relations with his players.  
    If you're interested, see my ( too ) long post on the "after Bobby is fired" thread. I'm a huge skeptic about people far from a scene purporting to know what is going on. In sports and elsewhere, such speculation ( often delivered as fact ) turns out to be way off the mark.
    Someday maybe ( maybe ) everyone will come clean.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    I remember saying I thought the BV signing was good, but that it might just be a "quick fix" or "shake up" solution. Maybe the days of "light a fire under 'em" managers are long past. It doesn't work on these generations of players.

    I, for one, have always given respect freely, until someone shows they don't deserve it.

    I can see amps point, but I also see what ex is saying. We don't even know if respect is an issue, or if it is, how significant was some players lack of respect a contributing factor in this teams demise.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

      I'd love for us to hold onto Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes, but we may have to part with one or two to get a top of the line starter who is under team control for many years. IMO, no player is "untouchable", but here's my rough dozen list of who I think we should hold onto as best we can:

    1) Bradley 
    2) Bogaerts 
    3) Barnes 
    4) Buchholtz 
    5) Brentz 
    6) Lester 
    7) Pedey 
    8) Morales 
    9) Webster 
    10) Lava 
    11) Swihart 
    12) Owens 

    I have some players listed lower due to depth we have at their position. I'd have Cecchini in my top dozen list, but unless we move him to 1B, he is blocked by Middlebrooks. My sleeper: Travis Shaw.

    Prime trade candidates:
    Ellsbury (1 year remaining on contract- little hope for us in 2013 anyways.)
    Salty  (We have Lava & Swihart.)
    Aviles (We have Iggy, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, and several other top SS prospects.)
    Doubront (We have enough 4/5 slot type starters- we need to upgrade.)
    Sweeney (We would have traded him in July had he not punched a wall. FA in '14.)
    Aceves (Attitude issues.)
    Breslow & Hill (FAs in 2014.)
    Atchison (Under arb control for 5 more years, but his age is a key factor.)
    Lackey & Bard (They have to prove they can still perform before trading them.)
    Melancon (See Lackey & Bard.)

    We may have just begun to see a total make-over of the 2013 team. I could easily see most of the guys above gone by next trade deadline.

     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    Aceves is almost definitely gone. It sure would be nice if some guys would take this opportunity to step up. Beyond Ciriaco, Posednek...etc.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    I was a BV booster but have changed my mind after watching every game this summer.  Agree Ex that we don't know the real inner workings.  I think he took some very simple situations and made them awkward and unpleasant when they didn't have to be, some bad communication.  His hands may have been tied more than we know.  But now he's just part of the bad taste.  We need a new start and EVERYONE pulling in the same direction.  This won't work any better if the owners/LL are meddling on every decision.  

    Moon, I think your ideas above about really building a pitching staff and figuring out which players to keep is priority number one.   I would like a pro-active,  teaching,  patient coach who stresses fundamentals and the team concept and no nonsense.  I would like our coach/pitching coach to have been pitchers or catchers. 

    I like your idea about Lackey and Bard needing to prove themsevles.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    Who is available as a manager?

    I always liked Jim Leyland, but I'm not sure he's the type we need right now.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    A big start would be to trade for or sign 2 younger type starters who will be under team control for 3+ years. I mentioned trading for Brett Anderson and maybe signing Brandon McCarthy or Jonathan Sanchez.

    That would allow us to trade Doubront as part of a package to get the RF'er we need (Upton?).

    I'll start my Realistic 2014 thread soon... I mean 2013, and give several options on directions we could go to get us back in the hunt sooner and later.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    The sample sizes are small on Lava and Iggy this year in the bigs. They need more time, before people start getting all over them.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to moonslav59'z comment:

      I'd love for us to hold onto Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes, but we may have to part with one or two to get a top of the line starter who is under team control for many years. IMO, no player is "untouchable", but here's my rough dozen list of who I think we should hold onto as best we can:

    1) Bradley 
    2) Bogaerts 
    3) Barnes 
    4) Buchholtz 
    5) Brentz 
    6) Lester 
    7) Pedey 
    8) Morales 
    9) Webster 
    10) Lava 
    11) Swihart 
    12) Owens 

    I have some players listed lower due to depth we have at their position. I'd have Cecchini in my top dozen list, but unless we move him to 1B, he is blocked by Middlebrooks. My sleeper: Travis Shaw.

    Prime trade candidates:
    Ellsbury (1 year remaining on contract- little hope for us in 2013 anyways.)
    Salty  (We have Lava & Swihart.)
    Aviles (We have Iggy, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, and several other top SS prospects.)
    Doubront (We have enough 4/5 slot type starters- we need to upgrade.)
    Sweeney (We would have traded him in July had he not punched a wall. FA in '14.)
    Aceves (Attitude issues.)
    Breslow & Hill (FAs in 2014.)
    Atchison (Under arb control for 5 more years, but his age is a key factor.)
    Lackey & Bard (They have to prove they can still perform before trading them.)
    Melancon (See Lackey & Bard.)

    We may have just begun to see a total make-over of the 2013 team. I could easily see most of the guys above gone by next trade deadline.



    No de la Rosa?  Keith Law rates him over Barnes and Webster....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59'z comment:

      I'd love for us to hold onto Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes, but we may have to part with one or two to get a top of the line starter who is under team control for many years. IMO, no player is "untouchable", but here's my rough dozen list of who I think we should hold onto as best we can:

    1) Bradley 
    2) Bogaerts 
    3) Barnes 
    4) Buchholtz 
    5) Brentz 
    6) Lester 
    7) Pedey 
    8) Morales 
    9) Webster 
    10) Lava 
    11) Swihart 
    12) Owens 

    I have some players listed lower due to depth we have at their position. I'd have Cecchini in my top dozen list, but unless we move him to 1B, he is blocked by Middlebrooks. My sleeper: Travis Shaw.

    Prime trade candidates:
    Ellsbury (1 year remaining on contract- little hope for us in 2013 anyways.)
    Salty  (We have Lava & Swihart.)
    Aviles (We have Iggy, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, and several other top SS prospects.)
    Doubront (We have enough 4/5 slot type starters- we need to upgrade.)
    Sweeney (We would have traded him in July had he not punched a wall. FA in '14.)
    Aceves (Attitude issues.)
    Breslow & Hill (FAs in 2014.)
    Atchison (Under arb control for 5 more years, but his age is a key factor.)
    Lackey & Bard (They have to prove they can still perform before trading them.)
    Melancon (See Lackey & Bard.)

    We may have just begun to see a total make-over of the 2013 team. I could easily see most of the guys above gone by next trade deadline.



    No de la Rosa?  Keith Law rates him over Barnes and Webster....

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I'd put him between Morales and Webster based on what I have heard. I left him off my list, because he is not yet officially on our team. I guess that squeezes Owen of my dandy dozen list.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    I just noticed I left Middlebrooks off as well...oops. 

    New list of 15:

    1) Bradley  
    2) Bogaerts  
    3) Barnes  
    4) Buchholtz  
    5) Middlebrooks
    6) Brentz  
    7) Lester  
    8) Pedey  
    9) Morales  
    10) de la Rosa
    11) Webster 
     
    12) Lava  
    13) Swihart  
    14) Owens   
    15) Cecchini/T. Shaw
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    51 SB for Cechinni this year and he wasn't even supposed to have much in the way of wheels. 89% success rate. Solid start for him. Hopefully some power will develop over time.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to moonslav59s comment:

      I'd love for us to hold onto Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes, but we may have to part with one or two to get a top of the line starter who is under team control for many years. IMO, no player is "untouchable", but here's my rough dozen list of who I think we should hold onto as best we can:

    1) Bradley 
    2) Bogaerts 
    3) Barnes 
    4) Buchholtz 
    5) Brentz 
    6) Lester 
    7) Pedey 
    8) Morales 
    9) Webster 
    10) Lava 
    11) Swihart 
    12) Owens 

    I have some players listed lower due to depth we have at their position. I'd have Cecchini in my top dozen list, but unless we move him to 1B, he is blocked by Middlebrooks. My sleeper: Travis Shaw.

    Prime trade candidates:
    Ellsbury (1 year remaining on contract- little hope for us in 2013 anyways.)
    Salty  (We have Lava & Swihart.)
    Aviles (We have Iggy, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, and several other top SS prospects.)
    Doubront (We have enough 4/5 slot type starters- we need to upgrade.)
    Sweeney (We would have traded him in July had he not punched a wall. FA in '14.)
    Aceves (Attitude issues.)
    Breslow & Hill (FAs in 2014.)
    Atchison (Under arb control for 5 more years, but his age is a key factor.)
    Lackey & Bard (They have to prove they can still perform before trading them.)
    Melancon (See Lackey & Bard.)

    We may have just begun to see a total make-over of the 2013 team. I could easily see most of the guys above gone by next trade deadline.



    im with yo except on lester. 
    hes trade bait for me (for young pitching)
    in my eyes hes on his way down.
    trade now before he goes any lower

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to moonslav59s comment:

    I remember saying I thought the BV signing was good, but that it might just be a "quick fix" or "shake up" solution. Maybe the days of "light a fire under 'em" managers are long past. It doesn't work on these generations of players.

    I, for one, have always given respect freely, until someone shows they don't deserve it.

    I can see amps point, but I also see what ex is saying. We don't even know if respect is an issue, or if it is, how significant was some players lack of respect a contributing factor in this teams demise.



    first off you cant really assess if an old scholl mgr would have worked because they ownership sank any possibility by not backing the manager re teh players and calling the shots for the mgr (too hands on)

    2ndly aside from having to reverse a "whatever the player wants culture",
    we went from a mgr who cared more about teh player feeling good than anything else, to the opposite extreme, of a manager who could give a crap about how the player feels.

    under normal circumstances this would be a very tough transition and maybe too much.
    add the givens above and teh rest of teh sox org. dysfuntion and forget it.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    It was an extreme shift in managerial styles, but it seemed that is what was needed at the time.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to bredbru comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59s comment:

      I'd love for us to hold onto Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes, but we may have to part with one or two to get a top of the line starter who is under team control for many years. IMO, no player is "untouchable", but here's my rough dozen list of who I think we should hold onto as best we can:

    1) Bradley 
    2) Bogaerts 
    3) Barnes 
    4) Buchholtz 
    5) Brentz 
    6) Lester 
    7) Pedey 
    8) Morales 
    9) Webster 
    10) Lava 
    11) Swihart 
    12) Owens 

    I have some players listed lower due to depth we have at their position. I'd have Cecchini in my top dozen list, but unless we move him to 1B, he is blocked by Middlebrooks. My sleeper: Travis Shaw.

    Prime trade candidates:
    Ellsbury (1 year remaining on contract- little hope for us in 2013 anyways.)
    Salty  (We have Lava & Swihart.)
    Aviles (We have Iggy, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, and several other top SS prospects.)
    Doubront (We have enough 4/5 slot type starters- we need to upgrade.)
    Sweeney (We would have traded him in July had he not punched a wall. FA in '14.)
    Aceves (Attitude issues.)
    Breslow & Hill (FAs in 2014.)
    Atchison (Under arb control for 5 more years, but his age is a key factor.)
    Lackey & Bard (They have to prove they can still perform before trading them.)
    Melancon (See Lackey & Bard.)

    We may have just begun to see a total make-over of the 2013 team. I could easily see most of the guys above gone by next trade deadline.



    im with yo except on lester. 
    hes trade bait for me (for young pitching)
    in my eyes hes on his way down.
    trade now before he goes any lower

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I can understand that position, but we are in such a great need of pitching that trading Lester just means we need to get one more quality starter. I'd rather keep him as our #3 or 4 starter, but moving him down on the list makes some sense. He'd still be on my list though.
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    One of the great things about the trade beyond moving all the salary was getting back 2 top pitching prospects. We can slot La Rosa as probably our top pitching prospect now ( above Barnes even ) and Webster is possibly our 3rd best pitching prospect. It was exactly what was needed. Now if we can get a top 5 pick next winter we should be able to get another stud.

    That trade was incredibly good for us IMO. No way Crawford ever lives up to that contract and yes I do like Crawford. It is important to note that he grew up in the LA area didn't he and had some local fan appeal also. He just was never going to be worth that amount of cash. Certainly Adrian was the centerpiece with a good contract value and great marketability in the LA area but neither Beckett or Crawford were worth their contracts at this point and we did get significant minor league talent back plus Punto's contract moved also.

    If we are ever going to be a top team again we will need quality pitching and now we are in a better position to get it going forward.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    One of the great things about the trade beyond moving all the salary was getting back 2 top pitching prospects. We can slot La Rosa as probably our top pitching prospect now ( above Barnes even ) and Webster is possibly our 3rd best pitching prospect. It was exactly what was needed. Now if we can get a top 5 pick next winter we should be able to get another stud.

    That trade was incredibly good for us IMO. No way Crawford ever lives up to that contract and yes I do like Crawford. It is important to note that he grew up in the LA area didn't he and had some local fan appeal also. He just was never going to be worth that amount of cash. Certainly Adrian was the centerpiece with a good contract value and great marketability in the LA area but neither Beckett or Crawford were worth their contracts at this point and we did get significant minor league talent back plus Punto's contract moved also.

    If we are ever going to be a top team again we will need quality pitching and now we are in a better position to get it going forward.



    CC was born and raised in Houston, TX. He still lives here, and his offseason workout regime is legendary in these parts.

    Boom, I repsect your knowledge of our prospects; I'd like you to comment on my list of 15 guys I'd try to avoid trading in order of importance. (Notice, I moved Cecchini down due to being blocked by Middlebrooks).

    I'd like to seer your ordered list of your top 15 avoid trade list.
     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    Heh Moon!

    I can't spend much time on this right now but here is a quick ordering. I'd rather just do the prospects but here is your request. Upon quick look it is amazing how few of these guys are important to keep. Of course years of control and costs are huge factors in evaluating value. Middlebrooks might even be our most "untouchable" player right now by those metrics:

    New list of 15:

    1) Buchholtz 
    2) Pedey
    3) Bogaerts 
     
    4) Middlebrooks 
    5) Lester
    6) de la Rosa 
      
    7) Doubront
     8) Barnes 
    9)  Lavarnway
     10) Bradley
    11)Cechinni 
    12) Swihart

    13) Morales

    14) Tazawa
    15) Webster 
      
      

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Heh Moon!

    I can't spend much time on this right now but here is a quick ordering. I'd rather just do the prospects but here is your request. Upon quick look it is amazing how few of these guys are important to keep. Of course years of control and costs are huge factors in evaluating value. Middlebrooks might even be our most "untouchable" player right now by those metrics:

    New list of 15:

    1) Buchholtz 
    2) Pedey
    3) Bogaerts 
     
    4) Middlebrooks 
    5) Lester
    6) de la Rosa 
      
    7) Doubront
     8) Barnes 
    9)  Lavarnway
     10) Bradley
    11)Cechinni 
    12) Swihart

    13) Morales

    14) Tazawa
    15) Webster 
      
      

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks for taking the time, boom.

     I think you made a nice list, but am curious why you have Bradley pretty low.







     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to moonslav59 comment:

    It was an extreme shift in managerial styles, but it seemed that is what was needed at the time.



    im not sure im coming acrosss clearr. of course they needed a shift.
    they submarined that effort from the get go.
    and tito folowed by bv might have been to extreme even under normal circumstances. this wasnt normal circumstances.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to moonslav59s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59s comment:

      I'd love for us to hold onto Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes, but we may have to part with one or two to get a top of the line starter who is under team control for many years. IMO, no player is "untouchable", but here's my rough dozen list of who I think we should hold onto as best we can:

    1) Bradley 
    2) Bogaerts 
    3) Barnes 
    4) Buchholtz 
    5) Brentz 
    6) Lester 
    7) Pedey 
    8) Morales 
    9) Webster 
    10) Lava 
    11) Swihart 
    12) Owens 

    I have some players listed lower due to depth we have at their position. I'd have Cecchini in my top dozen list, but unless we move him to 1B, he is blocked by Middlebrooks. My sleeper: Travis Shaw.

    Prime trade candidates:
    Ellsbury (1 year remaining on contract- little hope for us in 2013 anyways.)
    Salty  (We have Lava & Swihart.)
    Aviles (We have Iggy, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, and several other top SS prospects.)
    Doubront (We have enough 4/5 slot type starters- we need to upgrade.)
    Sweeney (We would have traded him in July had he not punched a wall. FA in '14.)
    Aceves (Attitude issues.)
    Breslow & Hill (FAs in 2014.)
    Atchison (Under arb control for 5 more years, but his age is a key factor.)
    Lackey & Bard (They have to prove they can still perform before trading them.)
    Melancon (See Lackey & Bard.)

    We may have just begun to see a total make-over of the 2013 team. I could easily see most of the guys above gone by next trade deadline.



    im with yo except on lester. 
    hes trade bait for me (for young pitching)
    in my eyes hes on his way down.
    trade now before he goes any lower

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I can understand that position, but we are in such a great need of pitching that trading Lester just means we need to get one more quality starter. I'd rather keep him as our #3 or 4 starter, but moving him down on the list makes some sense. He'd still be on my list though.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i acnowledge your point and had it in mind when i came to my position.
    if we had to win at all costs next year, your positon makes sense.
    im looking to be much better in teh future.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    In response to moonslav59s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59s comment:

      I'd love for us to hold onto Bogaerts, Bradley and Barnes, but we may have to part with one or two to get a top of the line starter who is under team control for many years. IMO, no player is "untouchable", but here's my rough dozen list of who I think we should hold onto as best we can:

    1) Bradley 
    2) Bogaerts 
    3) Barnes 
    4) Buchholtz 
    5) Brentz 
    6) Lester 
    7) Pedey 
    8) Morales 
    9) Webster 
    10) Lava 
    11) Swihart 
    12) Owens 

    I have some players listed lower due to depth we have at their position. I'd have Cecchini in my top dozen list, but unless we move him to 1B, he is blocked by Middlebrooks. My sleeper: Travis Shaw.

    Prime trade candidates:
    Ellsbury (1 year remaining on contract- little hope for us in 2013 anyways.)
    Salty  (We have Lava & Swihart.)
    Aviles (We have Iggy, Ciriaco, Bogaerts, and several other top SS prospects.)
    Doubront (We have enough 4/5 slot type starters- we need to upgrade.)
    Sweeney (We would have traded him in July had he not punched a wall. FA in '14.)
    Aceves (Attitude issues.)
    Breslow & Hill (FAs in 2014.)
    Atchison (Under arb control for 5 more years, but his age is a key factor.)
    Lackey & Bard (They have to prove they can still perform before trading them.)
    Melancon (See Lackey & Bard.)

    We may have just begun to see a total make-over of the 2013 team. I could easily see most of the guys above gone by next trade deadline.



    im with yo except on lester. 
    hes trade bait for me (for young pitching)
    in my eyes hes on his way down.
    trade now before he goes any lower

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I can understand that position, but we are in such a great need of pitching that trading Lester just means we need to get one more quality starter. I'd rather keep him as our #3 or 4 starter, but moving him down on the list makes some sense. He'd still be on my list though.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    thanks for the intelligent exchange
     
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    Re: A Realistic Look at 2012: Part III

    Moon, I did it quickly but overall I looked at it as a list of not just the quality of players but how important they were to building a winning team. Years of control and basically trade value if we are in rebuilding mode. On a different team, say the Rays or Texas, the list might have been very different. It is looking recently like Lavarnway is tanking but his numbers have been great at every other level and as a catcher he doesn't need to hit higher than .260 to be a god value. Most would probably rank him lower.

    Buchholz and Pedey are foundational type guys under several more years of control. I like Buchholz's stuff and potential to still be a #1 and the years of control. Pedey is a winner and excellent roll model on the team. Puts up good numbers both offensively and defensively. Several more years of control but mainly a foundational player. See notes below on the rest: 

    1) Buchholtz 
    2) Pedey
    3) Bogaerts 
      ( he might actually stick at SS and be a middle of the order bat. Only 19 still )
    4)  Middlebrooks ( premium position and potentially good defensively. Possible 30 HR bat at 3rd)
    5) Lester  ( reasonable control and years of control. Need pitching badly )
    6) de la Rosa 
     ( Some might project him as our #1 prospect and we need great pitching )
    7) Doubront ( Showed real value as a starter. Might continue to improve with more stamina )
     8 ) Barnes  ( Great pitching prospect. Again, my premium is starting pitching )
    9)  Lavarnway ( Premium position prospect, possible middle of the order bat )
     10 ) Bradley ( great prospect but little pop. Tools not great but close to mlb. 3 years older than Bogaerts at the same level and with fewer tools. )
    11)Cechinni  ( 51 sb, solid average and bat, improving fielder at premium position )
    12) Swihart ( great athlete. My gut tells me still possibly our best prospect long term + premium positional value. Better defensive potential than originally projected )

    13) Morales ( He has put up good numbers this year and he is a pitcher, good contract value )

    14) Tazawa ( great numbers but still probably a reliever )
    15) Webster 
      ( another pitching prospect with potential. Premium on starting pitching and years of controlability )
     

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