A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to titletownfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    That was before Hamilton went off the market, they might be a bit more desperate now.

    [/QUOTE]


    If they were desperate, like you say, they would give Andrus for 3 yrs of Upton before they took 1 yr of Ells and an unproven kid who might not stick as a catcher. Im mean, wouldnt you? I would.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

     

    At this point, I really hope that Boston signs Marcum. 

    I think a 3-year, $24 million would be enough to get Marcum who has done well in both the AL and NL and is familiar with the AL East. 

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    At this point, I really hope that Boston signs Marcum. 

    I think a 3-year, $24 million would be enough to get Marcum who has done well in both the AL and NL and is familiar with the AL East. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Too little too late.  At this point I feel like just giving up all hope.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Not impressed by a single offseason move.



    David Ross and Koji Uehara represent solid free agent signings.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I stand corrected: one move was solid: Uehara.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed Moon. One signing stands out but even he was expensive! It looks like the pen should be very strong though, which can really help the starters over the course of a season along with a great young SS like Iglesias. They have a chance. And they didn't break the bank particularly long term.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    They have saved their powder for a decent sized cannon blast if an opportunity should arise. Overall, considering the alternatives, it is not that bad. They did add some quality pieces even though they didn't add any superstar level talent. And eveyone has a relatively short term deal. Cherington is more prudent than Theo. Long term, I think he is going to be fine.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Not impressed by a single offseason move.



    David Ross and Koji Uehara represent solid free agent signings.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I stand corrected: one move was solid: Uehara.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed Moon. One signing stands out but even he was expensive! It looks like the pen should be very strong though, which can really help the starters over the course of a season along with a great young SS like Iglesias. They have a chance. And they didn't break the bank particularly long term.

    [/QUOTE]

    I've all but packed in 2013 and am looking to 2014. I may want to watch the Pawsox more that the Red Sox.

    I said I would wait to definitively judge Ben. That time is now, and while I hope he proves me terribly wrong, in my opinion this offseason stinks to high heaven. There, I said it. Now I will be called a troll, a Yankee fan, a cpmplainer, a pessimist, blah, blah, blah.

    I may have to do what you did, boom: take a week or two off and hope my perspective changes.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Not impressed by a single offseason move.



    David Ross and Koji Uehara represent solid free agent signings.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I stand corrected: one move was solid: Uehara.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed Moon. One signing stands out but even he was expensive! It looks like the pen should be very strong though, which can really help the starters over the course of a season along with a great young SS like Iglesias. They have a chance. And they didn't break the bank particularly long term.

    [/QUOTE]

    I've all but packed in 2013 and am looking to 2014. I may want to watch the Pawsox more that the Red Sox.

    I said I would wait to definitively judge Ben. That time is now, and while I hope he proves me terribly wrong, in my opinion this offseason stinks to high heaven. There, I said it. Now I will be called a troll, a Yankee fan, a cpmplainer, a pessimist, blah, blah, blah.

    I may have to do what you did, boom: take a week or two off and hope my perspective changes.

    [/QUOTE]


    I can guarentee this team will be better to watch than the 2012 version. And more likable as well. We got some good quality players (not "superstars") and all on our terms. 2 and 3 yr deals. We had to pay a bit more to do that, but thats the name of the game.

    I understand some doubt Moon, we all have some. But like Salty, I think your opinion will change a bit about this team. They still have the prospects in tact and have not signed anyone that will block any potential prospect. Its a much better attitude with Farrell and the leadership qualities the new signings bring.

    Im not completely thrilled, but this is what they said all along they were going to do.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Not impressed by a single offseason move.



    David Ross and Koji Uehara represent solid free agent signings.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I stand corrected: one move was solid: Uehara.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed Moon. One signing stands out but even he was expensive! It looks like the pen should be very strong though, which can really help the starters over the course of a season along with a great young SS like Iglesias. They have a chance. And they didn't break the bank particularly long term.

    [/QUOTE]

    I've all but packed in 2013 and am looking to 2014. I may want to watch the Pawsox more that the Red Sox.

    I said I would wait to definitively judge Ben. That time is now, and while I hope he proves me terribly wrong, in my opinion this offseason stinks to high heaven. There, I said it. Now I will be called a troll, a Yankee fan, a cpmplainer, a pessimist, blah, blah, blah.

    I may have to do what you did, boom: take a week or two off and hope my perspective changes.

    [/QUOTE]


    I can guarentee this team will be better to watch than the 2012 version. And more likable as well. We got some good quality players (not "superstars") and all on our terms. 2 and 3 yr deals. We had to pay a bit more to do that, but thats the name of the game.

    I understand some doubt Moon, we all have some. But like Salty, I think your opinion will change a bit about this team. They still have the prospects in tact and have not signed anyone that will block any potential prospect. Its a much better attitude with Farrell and the leadership qualities the new signings bring.

    Im not completely thrilled, but this is what they said all along they were going to do.

    [/QUOTE]


    they did exactly what you wanted moon. you said you wanted a competitive team on the field but also look towards the future. we have a competitive team given the history of our existing talent and the addition of these new FAs. we lost 0 draft picks and top prospects to make it happen.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I've all but packed in 2013 and am looking to 2014. I may want to watch the Pawsox more that the Red Sox.

    I said I would wait to definitively judge Ben. That time is now, and while I hope he proves me terribly wrong, in my opinion this offseason stinks to high heaven. There, I said it. Now I will be called a troll, a Yankee fan, a cpmplainer, a pessimist, blah, blah, blah.

    I may have to do what you did, boom: take a week or two off and hope my perspective changes.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sea Dogs should be fun this year...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    The one move that Ben's made so far that I absolutely positively don't understand is Ryan Dempster. I mean that one's a real head scratcher, unless Ben sees something no one else does. Heck, even moon and softlaw are in agreement on this one. Other than that I think young Ben has made about as good a set of moves as could be expected given the relatively weak FA class this year. The team also still has quite a bit of room to maneuver under the luxury tax in case anything like a great deal presents itself in the coming year. It may not be a great team this year, but it should be fun to watch. Then there's Dempster. Well, at least he's only signed for 2 years.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    With what was available this offseason. What did fans really expect this offseason? The only 2 marquee FA's this offseason came w/ HUGE ?'s. If your not going to trade top prospects and there is not a ton of talent on mlb roster how do you acquire top talent? The answer is you can't. Ben did next best thing, he acquired high character guys who will help in developement of the younger players as they make there way to Fenway. And @ 3yrs or less [even though they overpaid for all] gives RS payroll flexibility so when the next CC or Cliff Lee hit the market they will be in a position to be aggressive. But have to agree think 2013 won't be anything like 2012. Who knows with the Dodgers / Angels payrolls where they are and Yanks desperately trying to get to 189 by 2014 and still having to resign Cano, maybe Ellsbury has another big yr and finds RS are only team in position to sign? 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    I can guarentee this team will be better to watch than the 2012 version. And more likable as well. We got some good quality players (not "superstars") and all on our terms. 2 and 3 yr deals. We had to pay a bit more to do that, but thats the name of the game.

    I understand some doubt Moon, we all have some. But like Salty, I think your opinion will change a bit about this team. They still have the prospects in tact and have not signed anyone that will block any potential prospect. Its a much better attitude with Farrell and the leadership qualities the new signings bring.

    Im not completely thrilled, but this is what they said all along they were going to do.

     

    None of these signing really help us in 2014 and beyond.

    ______________________________________________________

     

    they did exactly what you wanted moon. you said you wanted a competitive team on the field but also look towards the future. we have a competitive team given the history of our existing talent and the addition of these new FAs. we lost 0 draft picks and top prospects to make it happen.

     

    (See above) This was my first priority on any signing we make. 

    Dempster is not going to get better in 2014.

    SV is a platoon player who will be playing 60%+ of his games vs the wrong handed pitcher into 2015 as he too ages past prime.

    Gomes is another platoon player that may help in the short term, not block anyone important, and not eat up much salary space, but I don't see his signing as particualrly helpful to 2014 either.

    Napoli, if indeed he will be signed, does fill a need, allows us flex to use papi at 1B in NL parks as Naps slides to catch, but his inconsistencies, poor catching/game-calling skills, and lack of any record of playing a full season is very concerning, especially as he ages past his prime range for 2014-2015.

    D. Ross and Uehara were decent signings as bridge players that provide depth at key positions.

    Faced with viewing the totality of all the moves made so far, I'd have rather chosen plan B:

    1) Trade every player that would be a FA after 2013 for as much as we can get in terms of players under team control for 3+ years or prospects.

    2) Trade every player we do not plan on extending that has a contract that expires after 2014.

    3) Offer Papi the one year deal that nets us a draft pick, and we'd almost certainly have lost him and had a sandwich pick in 2013.

    4) Sign only younger FAs like B McCarthy, Pagan and a precious few others.

    5) Maybe pick up some younger players at the trade deadline, as teams that are desperate to improve overpay in high potential players.

     

    I recognize we are a better team than before the signings, but since I still see us as an under 1% chance to win it all, I think plan B was the better option.

     

    On the other hand, if we were going to spend almost $50M a year in FA signings, as we just did, then I'd have rather gone with plan C, which was:

    1) Sign Hamilton, Greinke or A sanchez, and Napoli.

    2) Stay just under the luxury tax cap.

    3) Keep Ellsbury and get the draft pick.

    4) Have a top 4 or 5 chance to win in 2013, and still have some decent, but aging, players going into 2014 and beyond. 

    5) Fill in the bench with in-house or min wage players (Lava, Nava, Kalish, Linares, de la Rosa...)

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    ...Ben has made about as good a set of moves as could be expected given the relatively weak FA class this year. ...

    The fact that it was a weak FA class should have meant we stayed away from it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    I know all these guys might not have signed with the Sox, even if we offered slightly more, but if we were going to spend this big this winter, I'd prefer to have done it this way:

    $76M/5 A Sanchez (~$15M/yr)

    $41M/4 A Pagan    (~$10M/yr)

    $16M/2 R Ludwick (~$8M/yr)

    $7M/1   M Reynolds ($7M/yr)

    $4.3M/1   K Uehara (~$4M/yr)

      Total: $45M/yr

    or

    sub Naps for Reynolds at $6M more a year.

       Total: $51M/yr (about what we spent already)

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ...Ben has made about as good a set of moves as could be expected given the relatively weak FA class this year. ...

    The fact that it was a weak FA class should have meant we stayed away from it.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree, but I think ownership recognizes it might be a little tougher to put those fannies in the seats given what's happened the last two years.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    None of these signing really help us in 2014 and beyond.

    [QUOTE]

    They were not young, but most will help in 2014.

     

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

    Faced with viewing the totality of all the moves made so far, I'd have rather chosen plan B:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I was open to your plan B. However, I am very happy with what the Red Sox have done and prefer their plan instead.

     

    [QUOTE]

    4) Sign only younger FAs like B McCarthy, Pagan and a precious few others.

    [QUOTE]

     

    Pagan is not young. He is well over 31.

     

     

     [QUOTE]

    I recognize we are a better team than before the signings, but since I still see us as an under 1% chance to win it all, I think plan B was the better option.

     [QUOTE]

     

    Less then 1%? Disagree.

     

     

    [QUOTE]

    1) Sign A sanchez, and Napoli.

    4) Have a top 4 or 5 chance to win in 2013, and still have some decent, but aging, players going into 2014 and beyond. 

    5) Fill in the bench with in-house or min wage players (Lava, Nava, Kalish, Linares, de la Rosa...)

    [/QUOTE]


    So Sanchez helps the Red Sox win more this year then Dempster, Victorino, Ross, Uehara, and Gomes? So much so he  takes us from less then 1% to top 4-5 chance?

     

    The Red Sox have added 6[if they all pass physicals] quality winning players with likely two more to go. I think adding 8 quality players[nearly a 3rd of a team] can dramatically change  a team for the better. Much more then one or two over rated stars can. I thnk the dynamics of this team are changing much more then people realise. All while not losing any picks or prospects so far.

     

    BTW, now that Sanchez has signed for 80 million, he likely would have cost 82+.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Faced with viewing the totality of all the moves made so far, I'd have rather chosen plan B:

    1) Trade every player that would be a FA after 2013 for as much as we can get in terms of players under team control for 3+ years or prospects.

    2) Trade every player we do not plan on extending that has a contract that expires after 2014.

    3) Offer Papi the one year deal that nets us a draft pick, and we'd almost certainly have lost him and had a sandwich pick in 2013.

    4) Sign only younger FAs like B McCarthy, Pagan and a precious few others.

    5) Maybe pick up some younger players at the trade deadline, as teams that are desperate to improve overpay in high potential players.

    [/QUOTE]

    it might be easy for people like us to do. we don't have to worry about putting people into the standds, the backlash from the media as well as the fans or anything of the sort. there would be a riot if the sox traded away all their assets for prospects and just "rode it out". they're kind of appeasing both sides this way by putting a competitive team on the field and stockpilie young talent for the future. i know i'm still going to go to fenway in 2013, that probably wouldn't be the case if BV traded away all of our soon-to-be FAs and didn't resign papi.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    I was going to buy a new car. It was expensive , but it really ran great.  But the dealer convinced me that , for the same money , I could buy three high-mileage clunkers.  They might get me where I was going , and if they broke down , it would not be much of a loss because I would not keep them long anyway. So , I could just junk them and get another.  And , after all , there was always the possibility that the new one could break down as well. Then I might have a hard time re-selling it.  So , I bought the clunkers and hoped for the best.  My neighbor bought the new car. What a fool he is.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I was going to buy a new car. It was expensive , but it really ran great.  But the dealer convinced me that , for the same money , I could buy three high-mileage clunkers.  They might get me where I was going , and if they broke down , it would not be much of a loss because I would not keep them long anyway. So , I could just junk them and get another.  And , after all , there was always the possibility that the new one could break down as well. Then I might have a hard time re-selling it.  So , I bought the clunkers and hoped for the best.  My neighbor bought the new car. What a fool he is.

    [/QUOTE]


    If I owned a delivery service and needed new cars and the dealer offered me a 2003 Lexus that recently got into an accident for 12,500 or 6 2003 Honda Accords for the exact same 12,500, I choose the Accords. Especially since my delivery service needs 25 cars.

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    OK, I'm sticking with my own neanderthal plan--add one stud pitcher and position player to the best we had, Pedey, Papi, etc.,  mix in the young guys when they're ready, and try to improve as much as possible in 2013.  Please tell me why Anibal Sanchez at 5 X 15 or McCarthy at 2 X 13, both young and tested, wouldn't have been better than Dempster? (I don't see how he's going to improve our rotation getting twelve wins in the #5--Didn't Doobie do that last year?)  Not just better now but part of the future.  Also, I don't agree because the market's weak, there's not much out there.  Other teams are making some good moves.  OK, now that the Angel's have Hamilton, there's some talk they might want to trade Trumbo.  I think we should already have been and should now be going hard after someone like him.  I know this plan would have meant some loss in the minors, but don't we have about three third basemen and three catchers stacked up?  As well as Ells and maybe one of our best minor league pitchers? 

    I have always supported BC but I think this present course is very unimaginative and amounts to "watering the flowers and waiting for them to grow."  Waiting for the young guys is fine if you're in Pittsburgh or KC, but didn't we just lop about 250 million from the payroll?  I think a couple of judicious big contracts for young guys would be fine.  I keep thinking "This can't be it!"  What we're doing will make us better than last year (what wouldn't?) but will not move us to serious post season play IMO.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    Does anyone know where I can find up to date information on the Red Sox 2013 payroll total thus far?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 808soxfan. Show 808soxfan's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    The off-season is not over yet....

    Napoli is still a question mark in terms of when the contract will get done...


    How long do they have to negotiate a contract? Is Napoli bound to them in any way? Since Texas lost out on Greinke and Hamilton, it would be interesting if they want Napoli back for 3 years.


    Anyway, the Angels now have either Trumbo or Morales that they might be willing to deal. If their outfield is Trumbo, Trout, Hamilton with Pujols at first that does not leave a place for Bourjos or Wells. Trumbo, Trout, and Bourjos are all inexpensive and young. Trumbo could be shifted to DH as Bourjos is the better outfielder. This leaves switch-hitting Morales out. Morales was $3M last year and will probably be more this year, so I can't see the Angels dealing Trumbo. Wells is just a $24M bench player.

    Can the Red Sox and Angels exchange Morales' (What is the plural of Morales?)? Maybe Red Sox send Morales and a prospect for Kendrys Morales? Morales could also serve as DH if Papi has problems. Angels need pitching. (Yes, so do we)

    They could sign Swisher for the other outfield spot, but I am not sure I would do that. Let Brentz or JBJ play after the all-star break. If Ellsbury winds up leaving after the season, at least one has AL experience.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Does anyone know where I can find up to date information on the Red Sox 2013 payroll total thus far?

    [/QUOTE]


    Here's one spot.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I was going to buy a new car. It was expensive , but it really ran great.  But the dealer convinced me that , for the same money , I could buy three high-mileage clunkers.  They might get me where I was going , and if they broke down , it would not be much of a loss because I would not keep them long anyway. So , I could just junk them and get another.  And , after all , there was always the possibility that the new one could break down as well. Then I might have a hard time re-selling it.  So , I bought the clunkers and hoped for the best.  My neighbor bought the new car. What a fool he is.

    [/QUOTE]


    If I owned a delivery service and needed new cars and the dealer offered me a 2003 Lexus that recently got into an accident for 12,500 or 6 2003 Honda Accords for the exact same 12,500, I choose the Accords. Especially since my delivery service needs 25 cars.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    How about if you already had a garage full of old cars that were not running too smoothly ? And some of your loyal customers were starting to complain about the deteriorating service ?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: A Realistic Look At 2013: Part I

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Does anyone know where I can find up to date information on the Red Sox 2013 payroll total thus far?

    [/QUOTE]


    Here's one spot.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks

     

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