In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

It's not easy, since I have mentioned several trades, many of which people think are not possible, while others say I offer too much.

Last year my big early winter push was to trade Reddick and others for Gio Gonzalez. Later, I was big on getting Gavin Floyd or Wandy Rodriguez. I mentioned several offers, some included Middlebrooks.

I have already given my first choice of what I would have hoped we'd have done. I can't remember the specifics, but it was something like this:

Sign:

Napoli      $27M/2 (with $12M 3rd year team option/$2M buyout)

McCarthy $25M/3

A Pagan   $42M/4

Uehara     $4.25M/1

D Ross      $5.75M/2

 

Trade Ellsbury & Breslow for Prospects

Trade: Prospects from Ellsbury/Breslow trades, Doubront, Bradley, Cecchini & Owens

For: Justin Upton

Trade: Salty & Morales for G. Floyd.

 

I believe this keeps us below the salary we are at now, so may add a Joe Saunders type (or B Colon at $3.1M/1) and a cheap LF'er like Berkman.

In response to jasko2248's comment:

All true, but the other extreme is also unrealistic: the guys we signed were the best and only ones we could have goitten.

Must read thread by notin on 1B/LF.

One more example by the true "Poster of the Year".

We're up to about $175M in the luxury tax limit salary computaion.

Shocking!

I wish we'd just settle the Naps and move on. If he won't agree to less than 3 years, just cut the ties. 

The longer we wait, the more teams will be settling their catcher situation making Salty less desirable.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Agreed. There are also rumors that Berkman got an offer from the Rangers, so our 1st base options are disappearing as well.

Maybe that's a good thing. If they wait long enough, maybe we can try Bogearts/WMB at 1st and third. If  Bogaerts had a decent spring at 1st, this would make the 2013 season for me to see him full-time in the line up. Wishful thinking, I know. But I am in favor of giving Bogaerts a shot rather than half of notin's available options (not that he claimed any of them).

I have mentioned moving the 6-3 Bogaerts to 1B for over a year. It may be time now. We also have so many other SS prospects down the line that are better fielders than Bogaerts.

I'm not sure he's ready for the bigs, especially at a new position, but he should be the starting 1Bman in ST and AAA this spring.

I'd also think of moving Cecchini to 1B if Middlebrooks plays well this year, unless they think Cecchini or Bogaerts would be a better 3Bman than WMB. In that case move WMB to 1B at some point.

Moon, I think you are on to something. What I saw of Middlebrooks at third last year was not that impressive, although I like his stick. He might be an ideal candidate for first base long term as it seems a good percentage of his errors were throwing errors. Never seen Bogaerts play but he also commits more than his share of errors, not uncommon for a young player. Also without seeing him it's hard to know anything about his range. Like you, I believe that shortstop should be a defense first position, meaning I would live with Iglesias' weak bat for the glove he brings. That doesn't appear to be Ben's plan though. I know nothing about Cecchini, and wasn't our top draft pick last year a defensive shortstop?

In response to jidgef's comment:

One would normally think a SS would be a better fielding 3Bman than Middlebrooks, but the skillset is different. I'm not sure about Bogaert's quickness and reaction time or his arm strength at 3B, but my quess is that Ben and the scouts have a good idea about who rates to be the better 3Bman going forward. It might be premature to move Middlebrooks to 1B, but I do think Bogaerts should be moved to 3B or 1B this spring. Maybe I'm being partial, but I do not want a longterm SS that is not a great fielder.

Cecchini is too far away to move this year, and a lot can happen at 3B and 1B before and if he is ever ready for the bigs.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

I 100% disagree. Can you name ANY player in the history of baseball that moved immediately from SS to 1st base either in the minors or majors? I sure can't. Reports of his defense are improving. And if they decide at some point to move him off SS, I say with near certainty it will not be to 1st base. I would expect 3rd base or corner OF. And if Middlebrooks is blocking him at 3rd base, either Middlebrooks is moved to 1st base or one of them is traded.

 

As for 1st base, either Napoli will play the position or they will add somebody from out side the organisation to play it. I will be shocked if they moved Bogaerts to 1st ever, especially in spring.

In response to BMav's comment:

I said, I'd only put him at 1B this spring if they project Middlebrooks to be a better 3Bman than Bogaerts (doubtful). 

I have heard several posters mention moving Bogaerts to LF, but I think his best position is probably 3B, then 1B, then a SS who has an offensive game that outweighs his defensive shortcomings at short.

I have a baseball philosophy that demands a great fielding SS. I seriously doubt Bogaerts ever becomes one. Why wait?

 

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I like a good defensive SS as much as anybody. But the Yankees have done all right without one. Personally, I have a hard time judging players defense until I see them. However, based on what I have heard and read, including Bogaerts raw defensive stats, I still have hope he could be even better defensively then Hanley was at his peak. And I could have lived with that defense[arguably some of the worst in baseball] if we also get that offense aswell.

 

I still have yet to see or hear why he can't play a livable SS in the majors from anybody other then the general fear he will get too big. Until then and with reports of improvement, I definately would not move him off SS yet.

 

Simple question Moon. Whats your thoughts on Hanley and Jeter's defense? Would you have ever wanted  them as your SS? What about Tejada or Nomar?

In response to BMav's comment:

I think Jeter has been one of the worst fielding SSs the past 10 years combined. While I do not think ARod was a great SS, theY MOVED THE WRONG GUY TO 3B.

Hanley was better than Jter, but I'd have prefered him at 3B. His offense cancelled out the bad D and then some (as did Jeter).

Nomar's defense was grossly over-rated, and the day we traded him, I announced to all my firends and relatives that we were going to win the WS because we finally had a great fielding SS.

I loved Tejada's defense when in Oakland, but I think he slipped quickly after his 2nd year in Baltimore.

 

 

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I have heard the same reports and am not ignoring them. You are saying to move Bogaerts to 1st base now. On that, I 100% disagree. Your point of moving Bogaerts to 3rd and Middlbrooks to first base at "THIS TIME" I disagree 100%. Your point of moving Bogaerts off SS because he will never be a good enough SS for you I disagree with 50%. You might be right. But since I have not given up hope he can be a decent enough defensive SS, I wouldn't  move him yet.

 

 

[/QUOTE]

I think Jeter has been one of the worst fielding SSs the past 10 years combined. While I do not think ARod was a great SS, theY MOVED THE WRONG GUY TO 3B.

Hanley was better than Jter, but I'd have prefered him at 3B. His offense cancelled out the bad D and then some (as did Jeter).

Nomar's defense was grossly over-rated, and the day we traded him, I announced to all my firends and relatives that we were going to win the WS because we finally had a great fielding SS.

I loved Tejada's defense when in Oakland, but I think he slipped quickly after his 2nd year in Baltimore.

 

[/QUOTE]

 

So are you saying you would have never wanted Jeter, Hanley, or Nomar as your teams SS? You prefer say Iglesias with a 650 OPS to those 3? How have the Yankees won so much inspite of their bad SS?

Personally, I probably prefer the other 3 in their prime, so I guess I need to take back my statement that..... """I like a good defensive SS as much as anybody.""". Clearly, I don't. I just look at defense at SS as being very important. Just not as important as you.

As for the Nomar trade, it was a good one and needed. However, Nomar was not the Nomar of his prime either offensively or defensively. Give me Nomar and his 1000 OPs any day and I and the pitching staff will have to cope with his defense.

These guys and possibly Bogaerts are the exceptions to the rule of defense at SS being the end all be all.

So are you saying you would have never wanted Jeter, Hanley, or Nomar as your teams SS? You prefer say Iglesias with a 650 OPS to those 3?

Yes, I'd have moved Jeter and HanRam to 3B and Nomar to 2B, and had the best of both worlds.

How have the Yankees won so much inspite of their bad SS?

They've won one ring the last 12 years, and might have won more had they played Jeter at 3B and had a real SS at SS. Who knows.

Look, I never said a team can never win with an all hit/no field SS, I just said my philosophy is to have a great fielding SS at SS.

Personally, I probably prefer the other 3 in their prime, so I guess I need to take back my statement that..... """I like a good defensive SS as much as anybody.""". Clearly, I don't. I just look at defense at SS as being very important. Just not as important as you.

That's fine. It's OK to disagree.

As for the Nomar trade, it was a good one and needed. However, Nomar was not the Nomar of his prime either offensively or defensively. Give me Nomar and his 1000 OPs any day and I and the pitching staff will have to cope with his defense.

I doubt we win in 2004 with Nomar at SS hitting at a 1.000 OPS. 

Even when Nomar was healthy, he was never a good fielder. He was all flash. He made routine plays look hard, so people thought he was better than he was.

These guys and possibly Bogaerts are the exceptions to the rule of defense at SS being the end all be all.

1) We are not sure that Bogaerts will ever hit like Jeter, HanRam or Nomar, but I'm prretty certain he will never bea great fielding SS.

2) I haven't seen enough of Middlebrooks to think he is a great, average or poor fielding 3Bman, but if he does not rate to be very good at 3B, I'd seriously think of moving him to 1B next year. (I know players can learn on the go, so I am not firm on this position.)

Spring training had better be interesting. By that, I hope that RS invite many of these highly touted prospects. Give Bogaerts a shot at 3rd, SS, and first when the games don't count. Give WMB a shot a 3rd and first. In a "semi-competitive bridge year", I would rather see prospects than old guys (like Abreu as a back-up???). If Naps is signed, hopefully Bogaerts is in AAA. If Naps goes down for a long period, RS should arrange the infield so Bogaerts can play.

Papi's ankle was still bad at his golf tourney. If he goes down, move Naps to DH and let Bogaerts play. I want to see the kid, just like I would rather have seen Iggy at short.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

And I prefer to keep things the way they are until things shake out further. Similar to the moves this off season, I prefer to not commit yet either way. Play it half way so to speak,.  I believe there is still time to go in one direction or the other. You seem to think the time is now to commit. In both circumstances we disagree.

Bogaerts probably doesn't sniff the bigs until next September, if even then. They are not going to break spring training with bogaerts anywhere on the roster. The kid is only 19 or 20 at most and just made AA ball late last summer.

Forget about Cechinni for several years. And Middlebrooks stays at 3rd. He was a highly regarded pitcher in HS with a 95 mph fastball. His arm is erratic but it is definitely strong. He probably stays at 3rd for the next 7-8 years.

 We trade for a 1st baseman if Napoli doesn't happen. No other option really although Papi and Gomez are certainly possible if not likely. Then again there have been some pretty terrible fielders at 1st base over the years. I'd hate to see that though as it affects the entire infield defense.

Personally, considering the situation, I give Cherington a solid B+. He didn't lose a single draft pick and he made the team a lot better. I think we underate the addition of De La Rosa and Webster. Big factors potentially going forward. Great young pitching prospects are really tough to acquire and those guys were big reasons for that trade.

In response to BMav's comment:

Personally, considering the situation, I give Cherington a solid B+. He didn't lose a single draft pick and he made the team a lot better. I think we underate the addition of De La Rosa and Webster. Big factors potentially going forward. Great young pitching prospects are really tough to acquire and those guys were big reasons for that trade.

I'd give Ben a D+ so far.

I loved the Dodger trade and said I'd have liked it, even if we got no prospects in return. I agree that de la Rosa and Webster were great pick-ups, and that is why I called the Dodger trade one of the best Sox trades ever.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Damn, $175 million?!?  

So the Red Sox spent a lot of money at Walmart this offseason.  While the Dodgers went shopping at Barney's and Saks Fifth.   LOL

In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

More like "The Dollar General".

Berkman $10M!!!!!

WOW!

1bmen unsigned...

Miguel Cairo 1B / 3B   No     Jason Giambi 1B   No     Aubrey Huff 1B   No     Casey Kotchman 1B   No     Adam LaRoche 1B   Yes (Denied)     Carlos Lee 1B   No     Lyle Overbay 1B   No     Juan Rivera 1B / LF   No     Brandon Snyder 1B   No

I honestly think Cherington overpaid for a couple players but considering the aailable options, and that he didn't lose a single pick and didn't commit to any long term contracts, He has done all right to me. The Dodger trade alone should have warranted at least a C grade. Moonie, I'm glad I never took any classes from you!