A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    A must read for all of us is Peter Abraham's article in the Extra Bases section of today's Globe. Read it.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    The easy thing to do is blame the players underachieving, point to the collapse of 2011. Well, I can turn right around and say a good portion of this team was around to get 30 games over .500 at some point last year...they did that with their "best friend" in charge. So what is it? Is it the manager not doing his job, the way snake and fourBs and I intepret it, or is it we sulk and just say the players won't do their jobs anyway, so why fire poor Bobby Valentine? How do we know if it doesn't happen? We know this, and Lloyd said it as clear as can be read, the Sox aren't finishing 16 games over .500 with this guy, a feat that the "best friend" accomplished during a season of key injuries that befuddled the team's roster all season and left the team with 5 reserves playing fulltime at one point.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    I'd like to have "best friends" manage me the way Tito managed the Red Sox in his tenure. His behind the scenes orchestrating and media spin control and ability to work with egos still produced 2 WS titles and numerous playoff appearances and numerous 95 win seasons. BV has produced an under .500 team at the latest point of any season going back to the 1990s.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from thefly8. Show thefly8's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    This team needs BIG change from top to bottom. To fire BV would only let all of the fat, lazy underachievers who have already quit off the hook.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    To stick with him with still that iota of a shot to make the playoffs is conceding defeat.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    I read it...absolutely must fire Bobby V immediately. Abraham is wrong about the limitations of who could take over as manager--it is not down to Gene Lamont and Tim Bogar. As even JimFla stated, Tony Pena has been in the big leagues as a coach for years and was a manager, there are plenty of options. Think outside the box. I agree with Abraham about the team chemistry--but you know what? You can't fire the players and the players DO NOT WANT TO PLAY UNDER BOBBY VALENTINE...How do I know? They are under .500..As for the DL record list--how many were fake 15-day DLs to avoid an option move to waivers. The Sox are notorious for putting reserves and relievers on the DL the moment another player is returning from a rehab. The Nava wrist DL was an alltime joke. 
    Posted by dannycater



    You are wrong. There are only a few players, Francona loyalists, who don't want to play for BV. Pedey, Beckett, Salty and possibly Lester, to name the primary culprits. Youk was the worst.
    The rest I believe are on board, particularly Gonzalez, CC, and Shoppach.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    I can't believe people are still trying to figure out what is wring with this team.

    The starting pitching has an era of 4.82, among the worst in the AL.  The relievers are a little better, ranking 7th out of the 14 AL teams with an era of 3.34.  That's not terrible, but you aren't going to be a contender with that BP.

    Last season, the Sox finished the season with an ERA of 4.49 for the starters and 3.67 for the BP.

    Down the stretch in 2011, the problem was starting pitching.  And they did nothing to improve the rotation this year.

    And even if the SP was better, they still wouldn't be in position to content for the WS because their offense isn't that great.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    Harv , glad to see someone put Pedroia on the hot seat. Im an outsider but most of the people on here are as well. Therefore Im going to put my two cents in and say Pedroia seems ,from the outside, to be a pretty loud critic especially for someone hitting 260. His uniform may get dirty but he is not much help and going public about the manager is not the right thing to do. He is no captain in my book.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    I'm in Bobby V's corner, but I am not buying the idea that anyone won't play for him.  They all want to play because it's their livelihood and because they are getting paid a lot of money to play a game.  When they falter, it's because at this level the game is hard to play well every time.   We saw it happen to Ortiz 2-3 seasons ago.  We saw it happen to Youk this year--also AGon and Pedroia.  Ellsbury was semi-perfect last year and is semi-lousy this year, and you better believe he wants to play well.  Lester feels fine, but is pitching lousy and is very frustrated.  So is Beckett. So was Buchholz before he figured it out.  Cook started well but lately stinks. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    max,

    yes it is in the player's DNA to want to play. it is a way that they constantly prove themselves and has been their way of life since they were probably 8 years old.

    but, a manager's job is to help these players play better and not worse.  valentine has not done any of this this season and i am not sure that he did much of it 10 years ago when he was with the mets either.

    his style may have worked in japan where the entire culture of baseball is much more rigid, etc.   pedroia's spring training remark about "that's not how we do it here" should not have been made in public, but perhaps he was referring to the diffferences in managing baseball in japan and here in america.

    whatever, valentine has not won anywhere near enough games (injuries aside, with a $175 M payroll being in last place is unacceptable), his team seems to be tired of him and teams cannot fire the entire team like they can fire one  manager.

    it is certainly worth dumping valentine now and hope for another morgan's miracle in 2012.  anyone, can come in and win 50% of the remaining games. 

    i have volunteered already on another thread.  i am waiting for cherrington's call.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : Your ability to comprehend what you read is limited. He never mentioned any one taking over as manager, he mentioned who else was being considered at the time Bobby was hired. 
    Posted by BOSOX1941


    I guess you and PA don't remember Sveum, Santiago, Martinez, etc.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    I think all defenses of BV should start with-

    'Even though this might be our worst record in 20 years,....'
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : I guess you and PA don't remember Sveum, Santiago, Martinez, etc.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    They were all considered, but I believe it was down to Bobby and Lamont when they hired Bobby.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    BoSox is correct. After LL shut down Sweum, the choice was between BV and Lamont.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : They were all considered, but I believe it was down to Bobby and Lamont when they hired Bobby.
    Posted by BOSOX1941


    So you're saying that the only reason why we had to choose Valentine over lamont was because we had already eliminated Santiago, Martinez, and Sveum?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    BoSox is correct. After LL shut down Sweum, the choice was between BV and Lamont.
    Posted by dannycater

    I also believe they made the right choice.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    The person who narrowed the choices was LL. The choice of BV was specifically to do with him being supposedly a polar opposite of Tito. That's how this happened. It wasn't about BV's ability to win or to lead, it was about anti-Tito.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    I think all defenses of BV should start with- 'Even though this might be our worst record in 20 years,....'
    Posted by Joebreidey
    OK. Even though this might be our worst record in 20 years, I'd like to see what Bobby could do with his own coaches. He's signed for another year anyway, and his contract comes up at the same time as Farrell's. So in my opinion firing Bobby would not only be reactionary, it would be dumb.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from benn. Show benn's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    A must read for all of us is Peter Abraham's article in the Extra Bases section of today's Globe. Read it.
    Posted by BOSOX1941




    I dont like bobby ,
    he is not a good enough
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    The person who narrowed the choices was LL. The choice of BV was specifically to do with him being supposedly a polar opposite of Tito. That's how this happened. It wasn't about BV's ability to win or to lead, it was about anti-Tito.
    Posted by dannycater


    We had plenty of guys to choose from.  LL was picking BV from the beginning.  The idea that there was only one candidate in the coaching world is crazy on PA's part.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : OK. Even though this might be our worst record in 20 years, I'd like to see what Bobby could do with his own coaches. He's signed for another year anyway, and his contract comes up at the same time as Farrell's. So in my opinion firing Bobby would not only be reactionary, it would be dumb.
    Posted by carnie


    I don't want to suffer through another season like this simply because BV has another year on his contract.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : I don't want to suffer through another season like this simply because BV has another year on his contract.
    Posted by Joebreidey
    That's reactionary thinking Joe. Bobby's not the problem with this team. Starting pitching is.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : That's reactionary thinking Joe. Bobby's not the problem with this team. Starting pitching is.
    Posted by carnie
    When BV is the topic, Joe has shown no sign of any kind of thinking, starting with first game of the season. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : I don't want to suffer through another season like this simply because BV has another year on his contract.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    That's exactly how I felt about Francona.... even though the team managed to win in spite of him.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    Manager Myopia.
     
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