A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]I read it...absolutely must fire Bobby V immediately. Abraham is wrong about the limitations of who could take over as manager--it is not down to Gene Lamont and Tim Bogar. As even JimFla stated, Tony Pena has been in the big leagues as a coach for years and was a manager, there are plenty of options. Think outside the box. I agree with Abraham about the team chemistry--but you know what? You can't fire the players and the players DO NOT WANT TO PLAY UNDER BOBBY VALENTINE...How do I know? They are under .500..As for the DL record list--how many were fake 15-day DLs to avoid an option move to waivers. The Sox are notorious for putting reserves and relievers on the DL the moment another player is returning from a rehab. The Nava wrist DL was an alltime joke. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    You want outside the box?  Kevin Millar.  Just until the end of the season.  I think he could rally the team, unite the clubhouse.  We dont need a genious in-game manager, we need a motivator.  Millar has the perfect personality.  He was asked to sit in the Sox dugout when they were down 3-1 to Cle in 2007.  He sought permission from the O's, who he was under contract with at the time.  To me, this says something.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]max, as usual reaching. Did I ever say these guys did it on purpose? Nope. It happens. So you move on, and you get another leader in there who can motivate the guys to do well. Is that too hard to figure out. You read Abraham's article and someone posted the Herald's column about firing BV---did you read that one too? We hear one side of everything on this forum. The side about how we should stop blaming the manager. Well, if a team is still trying to get to .500 this late in the year and all it takes to grab the 2nd WC is play .550, then yeah, you make a move to improve the team. Someone said fire the GM, who also gets some blame with some poor personel decisions, but BV has yet to get this team on a sustained streak of victories other than getting out of a deep hole in May.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    You constantly insinuate that they don't want to perform for Bobby. You're just clever in how you say it. Just come out and say it. You think Bobby is horrible. If that's what you believe then say it. I never had a problem saying what a putrid manager Frqncona was, of course, I truly believe I was right.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]Somehow I have always been under the impression that part of the managers job was to get his players to buy into his way of doing things. I also somehow got the impression that part of a managers job was to address attitude problems and make them better. I thought that a manager's job was getting his team to play hard. These guys don't like Bobby V and they aren't paying any attention to him. Therefore he is ineffective.  It doesn't matter whose fault it is.  
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    What way of doing things?  It's a simple game--you hit the ball, throw the ball, and field the ball. 

    What attitude problems?  Youk, maybe, but he's gone.  Beckett and Lester don't have attitude problems, but do have pitching issues.  AGon wasn't hitting well earlier, but is now, and I will guarantee he is very supportive of Bobby V. Pedroia definitely has an attitude, but it sure as heck isn't a problem. He plays all out on every play, and now he seems to be hitting again.  I see one significant attitude problem. Sweeney doesn't know when to control his temper and not break his hand. That's it. 

    Team not playing hard?  One highly paid superstar, AGon, played 16 games in RF this year to get Ortiz and then Youk into the lineup.  Pedroia has almost certainly played too hard which is why his thumb didn't get well sooner than it did.  CC is playing with a bad elbow requiring tommy john surgery.  Everybody, as far as I can see, is playing as hard and as well as they can.





     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : What way of doing things?  It's a simple game--you hit the ball, throw the ball, and field the ball.  What attitude problems?  Youk, maybe, but he's gone.  Beckett and Lester don't have attitude problems, but do have pitching issues.  AGon wasn't hitting well earlier, but is now, and I will guarantee he is very supportive of Bobby V. Pedroia definitely has an attitude, but it sure as heck isn't a problem. He plays all out on every play, and now he seems to be hitting again.  I see one significant attitude problem. Sweeney doesn't know when to control his temper and not break his hand. That's it.  Team not playing hard?  One highly paid superstar, AGon, played 16 games in RF this year to get Ortiz and then Youk into the lineup.  Pedroia has almost certainly played too hard which is why his thumb didn't get well sooner than it did.  CC is playing with a bad elbow requiring tommy john surgery.  Everybody, as far as I can see, is playing as hard and as well as they can.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]
    Sensible.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : What way of doing things?  It's a simple game--you hit the ball, throw the ball, and field the ball.  What attitude problems?  Youk, maybe, but he's gone.  Beckett and Lester don't have attitude problems, but do have pitching issues.  AGon wasn't hitting well earlier, but is now, and I will guarantee he is very supportive of Bobby V. Pedroia definitely has an attitude, but it sure as heck isn't a problem. He plays all out on every play, and now he seems to be hitting again.  I see one significant attitude problem. Sweeney doesn't know when to control his temper and not break his hand. That's it.  Team not playing hard?  One highly paid superstar, AGon, played 16 games in RF this year to get Ortiz and then Youk into the lineup.  Pedroia has almost certainly played too hard which is why his thumb didn't get well sooner than it did.  CC is playing with a bad elbow requiring tommy john surgery.  Everybody, as far as I can see, is playing as hard and as well as they can.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    The article that the OP referenced said it was the players fault.  I inferred that the manager has a role in how well the players performed.

    You don't think so?

    Every manager has a different way of doing things.  I am not talking about throwing the ball.  I don't really need to expand on that do I?  It involves player management and management of personalities.

    The evidence before me, I.E the won loss record and the fact that a large portion of the players are underperforming, points towards management being part of the issue.

    Right?



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]max, as usual reaching. Did I ever say these guys did it on purpose? Nope. It happens. So you move on, and you get another leader in there who can motivate the guys to do well. Is that too hard to figure out. You read Abraham's article and someone posted the Herald's column about firing BV---did you read that one too? We hear one side of everything on this forum. The side about how we should stop blaming the manager. Well, if a team is still trying to get to .500 this late in the year and all it takes to grab the 2nd WC is play .550, then yeah, you make a move to improve the team. Someone said fire the GM, who also gets some blame with some poor personel decisions, but BV has yet to get this team on a sustained streak of victories other than getting out of a deep hole in May.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Of course I exaggerated your position, but the bottom line is I think you put way, way more faith in managers than they deserve--any of them.  Francona was a loser before he inherited a team that the year before almost beat the Yankees in the ALCS--and he darn near lost the 2004 ALCS 4 games to zip, or have you forgotten?  The 2004 team were a great bunch of hitters with some guy named Mueller hitting over .300 in the 8th slot.  And the 2007 team led the AL in ERA and was like 3d in runs scored.  It did not take a genius to manage those two teams. I think Francona did a good job, but let's not kid outselves.

    Joe Torre was a loser before he got the Yankees job, and I think Stengal was both before and after he managed the Yankees. 

    Last year Francona's lineup included five of the top ten OPS's in the AL--Ells, Ped, Agon, Papi, and Youk.  Do you honestly think it took managerial genius to make up that lineup card?  Or that those guys wouldn't have hit without the inspirational leadership provided by Terry Francona?  To be honest, I think Francona keeps his job even after the September collapse, but the chicken and beer killed him because it suggested his guys just did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted.  

    This year Bobby V doesn't have what Francona had last year.  In lieu of 5 guys with top ten OPS's, he has one, Ortiz, who is on the DL.  Two of his three presumptive aces are struggling.  The bullpen lost Pap, Bard, Melancon, and Bailey, with Melancon back but only so-so. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : Easy on the insults, dude.  Joe is a very smart guy.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]
    I said nothing about Joe AS A PERSON.
    I did call into question his reasoning. He's had an axe to grind since game 1. That sort of thing has been know to affect a person's "smarts" adversely.
    Worst manager? I could have listed all the good moves BV has made between "Fielder" and "Matsui."  Especially with the pen. But the list would have been too long for a sports board.
    I am not and don't wish to be a "dude."

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager

    In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A realistic look at Bobby V as the Sox manager : I said nothing about Joe AS A PERSON. I did call into question his reasoning. He's had an axe to grind since game 1. That sort of thing has been know to affect a person's "smarts" adversely. Worst manager? I could have listed all the good moves BV has made between "Fielder" and "Matsui."  Especially with the pen. But the list would have been too long for a sports board. I am not and don't wish to be a "dude."
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    I hear you bro.

     
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