I wonder which team in 2013 will be the "surprise team".  In 2012, both the Oakland A's and Baltimore O's surprised all of us.  Which team will it be in 2013?  Royals?  Mariners?  Or the Yankees by finishing in last place?  LOL

In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

I wonder which team in 2013 will be the "surprise team".  In 2012, both the Oakland A's and Baltimore O's surprised all of us.  Which team will it be in 2013?  Royals?  Mariners?  Or the Yankees by finishing in last place?  LOL

The Sox

I'd like to know the names that were discussed. Perhaps, we may never know. I wonder if they had to be 2 pitchers. Would they have taken Lester, Ellsbury and cash?

Can't see KC wanting Ells for 1 yr knowing they can't resign him? How do you explain that to your fan base, while Myers putting up big #'s in fenway.

I think explaining picking up Ellsbury to their fan base would be the last of their worries, in fact, no explanation would be needed once they see we are paying half his deal. Also, KC would love the draft pick.

BTW, Shields is only under team control for 2 years, and that is the main reason this deal was rated as one of the worst for KC.

I'm not usually one to advocate trading solid pitching for a hitter, but I suggested this deal as a good one for the Sox, because as of now, I do not see the Sox extending him. I have heard rumblings of talks, but am not sure it is a good idea. His lost velocity is a big concern. You could be right: it could be a terrible mistake, if Lester has a very good 2013 and we could have extended him. Lester is still young enough to be considered part of our longterm future if we do extend him. My gut just tells me that trading him straight up for Myers would help our longterm future more than keeping Lester and hoping quite a few things happen for it to work out well with him beyond 2014.

Think smart play w/ Lester is let this season play out. Hopefully he returns to form w/ Farrell back and extension can be agreed upon. Because while Lester hasn't been a No.1, he's still a solid #2 if he can turn it around. RS desperately need him to turn it around.

Wishful thinking is not always "smart play". If he does not regain his form, his trade value goes way down. Of course the opposite is true as well, but it's a gamble either way. My biggest concern is lester's loss of velocity. There was a great article on fangraphs about how it is virtually unheard of for a pitcher to regain his lost velocity, unless it was a result of an injury.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=4930&position=P&pitch=FA

I meant build around them by gaining more prospects or younger players with more years of team control, along with maybe one FA that will be in his prime for 2014 & 2015 & perhaps beyond. Surely, this was not impossible to make happen.

Its unfortunate that the year the RS had to spend $, there really wasn't much worth spending it on. Tough to be trading guys like Lester and others for young talent when they're all coming off miserable yrs. If Lester had pitched well last yr and Shields had pitched terribly then maybe Myers could be wearing a RS uniform, but guess how many RS fans would be screaming that RS traded their best pitcher?

We did not "have to spend money", or at least that much money and in that way.

Maybe not tip top prospect talent (although we'll have to agree to disagree on Myers), but maybe go all out for Brett Anderson, or come up with a better offer to pry Trevor Bauer from AZ. (AJ Cole? I'm sure there are others I can't think of right now.)

I'm a little weary on Bauer he wore out his welcome in AZ awfully quickly. As for Brett Anderson would love to see him in RS uniform, but w/ A's coming off winning the AL West they are no longer looking to unload & rebuild, if anything they've been adding to a team they think has a chance to be a factor this year. Personally I think they take a step back, if they do then RS might be able to get Anderson next offseason. A's are always one yr away from rebuilding again.

I agree that Anderson was highly unlikely or would have taken a huge overpay, but the cost to get a guy like Bauer was not much at all.

Bauer put up some nice numbers in...

AA  8-2  3.18  11.9k/9

and

AAA 5-1  2.85   10.6K/9

(plus 17Ks in 9 innings of A+ ball)

Yes, the sample size is small, but this kid has huge upside.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

I wonder which team in 2013 will be the "surprise team".  In 2012, both the Oakland A's and Baltimore O's surprised all of us.  Which team will it be in 2013?  Royals?  Mariners?  Or the Yankees by finishing in last place?  LOL

The Sox

I hope so too southpaw777.   :)

I do not think there is a dominant team in the AL this year.  Each team has its weaknesses (e.g. Angels with their starting pitchers and bullpen).

The AL East is up for grabs too.  Any team can win this division and I hope its the Red Sox.   :)

I think explaining picking up Ellsbury to their fan base would be the last of their worries, in fact, no explanation would be needed once they see we are paying half his deal. Also, KC would love the draft pick.

So you really think that KC would deal Myers for a pitcher which even the RS are worried might be washed up, a yr of Ellsbury before leaving for FA to get a draft pick that could be late 1st round [don't see Ellsbury signing w/ terrible team] that might be mlb ready in 3-4 yrs and probably no where near as highly rated as Myers. If KC is willing to listen to such a deal I have some water front property they might be interested in.

BTW, Shields is only under team control for 2 years, and that is the main reason this deal was rated as one of the worst for KC.

They were looking for starting pitchers how many teams could offer 2 proven mlb starters? Not the RS. They were obviously tired of waiting for their young arms to develope following so many setbacks. Trust me I would like to have Myers on my team the upside is huge. But they did get 2 mlb proven starters in return, not easy to find. If Shields is gone in 2 yrs and Davis doesn't become a solid starter this is the type of trade that GM's lose their jobs over. Hey even the RS were able to trade Jeff Bagwell for a reliever, so we know it happens. But like I said as RS fan how can we get so worked up over the fact we didn't get Myers when we couldn't give them what the Royals wanted? We didn't match up - it happens.

Wishful thinking is not always "smart play". If he does not regain his form, his trade value goes way down. Of course the opposite is true as well, but it's a gamble either way. My biggest concern is lester's loss of velocity. There was a great article on fangraphs about how it is virtually unheard of for a pitcher to regain his lost velocity, unless it was a result of an injury.

So you don't think other teams including the Royals don't know this as well. So "smart play" would to deal Lester when his value is as low as it has ever been? If Lester had a great season last year then maybe you have a chance for a prospect like Myers. But with his current value probably had no chance, so I don't see the need to complain on not getting Myers because we never really had a shot. The Rays had what it took RS did not, like I said earlier in another yr story might be different depending on what the young guns do this year.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=4930&position=P&pitch=FA

I meant build around them by gaining more prospects or younger players with more years of team control, along with maybe one FA that will be in his prime for 2014 & 2015 & perhaps beyond. Surely, this was not impossible to make happen.

Its unfortunate that the year the RS had to spend $, there really wasn't much worth spending it on. Tough to be trading guys like Lester and others for young talent when they're all coming off miserable yrs. If Lester had pitched well last yr and Shields had pitched terribly then maybe Myers could be wearing a RS uniform, but guess how many RS fans would be screaming that RS traded their best pitcher?

We did not "have to spend money", or at least that much money and in that way.

Not sure I get your point RS did spend 50+ mil this offseason. Could it have been better spent than Naps/Victorino/Dempster/Gomes/Ross/Drew of course would have loved to see Tulowitzki and M.Cain would have been real nice or even Hammels and McCutchen and still would have had some change left for a Ross or others.Those would be signings I would be escatic over.

Maybe not tip top prospect talent (although we'll have to agree to disagree on Myers), but maybe go all out for Brett Anderson, or come up with a better offer to pry Trevor Bauer from AZ. (AJ Cole? I'm sure there are others I can't think of right now.)

I'm a little weary on Bauer he wore out his welcome in AZ awfully quickly. As for Brett Anderson would love to see him in RS uniform, but w/ A's coming off winning the AL West they are no longer looking to unload & rebuild, if anything they've been adding to a team they think has a chance to be a factor this year. Personally I think they take a step back, if they do then RS might be able to get Anderson next offseason. A's are always one yr away from rebuilding again.

I agree that Anderson was highly unlikely or would have taken a huge overpay, but the cost to get a guy like Bauer was not much at all.

Bauer put up some nice numbers in...

AA  8-2  3.18  11.9k/9

and

AAA 5-1  2.85   10.6K/9

(plus 17Ks in 9 innings of A+ ball)

Yes, the sample size is small, but this kid has huge upside.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I think explaining picking up Ellsbury to their fan base would be the last of their worries, in fact, no explanation would be needed once they see we are paying half his deal. Also, KC would love the draft pick.

So you really think that KC would deal Myers for a pitcher which even the RS are worried might be washed up, a yr of Ellsbury before leaving for FA to get a draft pick that could be late 1st round [don't see Ellsbury signing w/ terrible team] that might be mlb ready in 3-4 yrs and probably no where near as highly rated as Myers. If KC is willing to listen to such a deal I have some water front property they might be interested in.

BTW, Shields is only under team control for 2 years, and that is the main reason this deal was rated as one of the worst for KC.

They were looking for starting pitchers how many teams could offer 2 proven mlb starters? Not the RS. They were obviously tired of waiting for their young arms to develope following so many setbacks. Trust me I would like to have Myers on my team the upside is huge. But they did get 2 mlb proven starters in return, not easy to find. If Shields is gone in 2 yrs and Davis doesn't become a solid starter this is the type of trade that GM's lose their jobs over. Hey even the RS were able to trade Jeff Bagwell for a reliever, so we know it happens. But like I said as RS fan how can we get so worked up over the fact we didn't get Myers when we couldn't give them what the Royals wanted? We didn't match up - it happens.

Wishful thinking is not always "smart play". If he does not regain his form, his trade value goes way down. Of course the opposite is true as well, but it's a gamble either way. My biggest concern is lester's loss of velocity. There was a great article on fangraphs about how it is virtually unheard of for a pitcher to regain his lost velocity, unless it was a result of an injury.

So you don't think other teams including the Royals don't know this as well. So "smart play" would to deal Lester when his value is as low as it has ever been? If Lester had a great season last year then maybe you have a chance for a prospect like Myers. But with his current value probably had no chance, so I don't see the need to complain on not getting Myers because we never really had a shot. The Rays had what it took RS did not, like I said earlier in another yr story might be different depending on what the young guns do this year.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=4930&position=P&pitch=FA

I meant build around them by gaining more prospects or younger players with more years of team control, along with maybe one FA that will be in his prime for 2014 & 2015 & perhaps beyond. Surely, this was not impossible to make happen.

Its unfortunate that the year the RS had to spend $, there really wasn't much worth spending it on. Tough to be trading guys like Lester and others for young talent when they're all coming off miserable yrs. If Lester had pitched well last yr and Shields had pitched terribly then maybe Myers could be wearing a RS uniform, but guess how many RS fans would be screaming that RS traded their best pitcher?

We did not "have to spend money", or at least that much money and in that way.

Not sure I get your point RS did spend 50+ mil this offseason. Could it have been better spent than Naps/Victorino/Dempster/Gomes/Ross/Drew of course would have loved to see Tulowitzki and M.Cain would have been real nice or even Hammels and McCutchen and still would have had some change left for a Ross or others.Those would be signings I would be escatic over.

Maybe not tip top prospect talent (although we'll have to agree to disagree on Myers), but maybe go all out for Brett Anderson, or come up with a better offer to pry Trevor Bauer from AZ. (AJ Cole? I'm sure there are others I can't think of right now.)

I'm a little weary on Bauer he wore out his welcome in AZ awfully quickly. As for Brett Anderson would love to see him in RS uniform, but w/ A's coming off winning the AL West they are no longer looking to unload & rebuild, if anything they've been adding to a team they think has a chance to be a factor this year. Personally I think they take a step back, if they do then RS might be able to get Anderson next offseason. A's are always one yr away from rebuilding again.

I agree that Anderson was highly unlikely or would have taken a huge overpay, but the cost to get a guy like Bauer was not much at all.

Bauer put up some nice numbers in...

AA  8-2  3.18  11.9k/9

and

AAA 5-1  2.85   10.6K/9

(plus 17Ks in 9 innings of A+ ball)

Yes, the sample size is small, but this kid has huge upside.

I could be wrong but see Bauer as an arm injury waiting to happen. Every pitching coach in baseball must cringe every time he takes those 2 crow steps and fires ball as hard as he can at catcher from a couple of steps in front of the mound, sure the catchers love him too, just ask Miguel Montero. Leaving for Florida tomorrow will get to see RS next week, hope I like what I see from team, hopefully no fat cats. Will continue after I get back. Have a good week, keep up the solid RS talk! Like the good banter about baseball and RS in particular.

Bauer put up some nice numbers in...

AA  8-2  3.18  11.9k/9

and

AAA 5-1  2.85   10.6K/9

(plus 17Ks in 9 innings of A+ ball)

Yes, the sample size is small, but this kid has huge upside.

I could be wrong but see Bauer as an arm injury waiting to happen. Every pitching coach in baseball must cringe every time he takes those 2 crow steps and fires ball as hard as he can at catcher from a couple of steps in front of the mound, sure the catchers love him too, just ask Miguel Montero. Leaving for Florida tomorrow will get to see RS next week, hope I like what I see from team, hopefully no fat cats. Will continue after I get back. Have a good week, keep up the solid RS talk! Like the good banter about baseball and RS in particular.

He'd have been a very nice get.

So, the 25 man roster....

1) Salty

2) Ross

3) Napoli

4) Ortiz

5) Pedroia

6) Drew

7) Middlebrooks

8) Ciriaco (perhaps Holt or Iggy at some point)

9) Gomes

10) Ellsbury

11) Victorino

12) Sweeney (perhaps Nava, Brentz or someone else at some point)

13) Positional: Holt or Nava/ Pitcher: Tazawa, Bard or Mortensen

14) Lester

15) Buchholz

16) Dempster

17) Lackey

18) Doubront

19) Hanrahan

20) Bailey

21) Uehara

22) Breslow

23) Aceves

24) Morales

25) Miller (Not a slam dunk- could be traded or phantom DL'd)

DL: Kalish (to 60 Day?)

The 25th Man- positional or 13th pitcher?

Tazawa, Bard, Mortensen, Holt, or Nava with an outside chance of Gomez, Hamilton, or a sleeper.

Others I listed on the 25 man roster who may miss out or be dealt to make room for another:

Sweeney

Miller

Ciriaco

Bailey

Salty

Aceves

Morales

If I thought we had a strong chance of winning a ring, I'd find a way to have Tazawa be our starter at some point this year. He should not start 30 games, so there is no need to put him in the rotation in April. He has options left, so I'd start him in AAA, but limit his innings there.

If Bard looks great in ST, we may have a logjam that neccesitates a trade or creative DL assignment or two.

Aceves may have wore out his welcome here, but he has a lot of talent in a role he excels at. Maybe Farrell can help smooth things out here, but he may end up being the guy who is dealt.

Bailey needs to prove he is healthy before his trade value is high enough to be a worthwhile trade consideration.

Morales has 2 years of team control left. He is excellent vs LHBs, can start or relieve, but he may be the one dealt to make room for someone else.

Miller or Mortensen may not bring much back in return, so we may keep these two to fill the role of the 7th reliever after someone else gets dealt, and until Tazawa is ready.

Salty could still be dealt, and Lava used vs LHPs, but that won't give him much room to gain the experience he needs behind the plate.

Still some things to iron out, but that's part of what ST is all about.

Let the games begin.  GO SOX!!!

I really think Holt would be a better option over Ciriaco...Hes had a solid OBP throughout the minors and did very well when called up...

I almost put Holt on the 25, and I think you're right.

I'm pretty sure he will get a long look in ST.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I really think Holt would be a better option over Ciriaco...Hes had a solid OBP throughout the minors and did very well when called up...

I almost put Holt on the 25, and I think you're right.

I'm pretty sure he will get a long look in ST.

Here is a good article on "Holt" moon, he doesn't bring much to the table other than an above average minor leage OBP and the fact he doesn't SO much.  He sounds more like a singles guy without a real position he can play well at the big league level.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1459165-brock-holt-gives-red-sox-potential-sleeper-utility-player

how does holt stack up defensively? Ciriaco is probably the best IF'er on the team (save pedey) and his value could be in the late innings as a defensive replacement at SS..

I thought he was a big plus fielder too, but never understood why when both he and Aviles were playing, Aviles was at SS.