Dempsters deal runs out by 2015 so that 13M per will be free'd up as it is. In fact, of the recent signees only SV is slated to still be around into 2015. It is the definition of bridge year. At this time, the outlook on our prospects is a little to foggy to start building around them. in 2014-15 we will have a good grasp of what we have in terms of future stars and as that happens we free up some serious cash to restock and reload. Personally, i love that plan. Compete in the mean time and once the cavalry arrives we can invest in top notch talent to build "the next great RS team".

I'm fine with no long term deals during a weak FA winter. I'm fine with bridge players to keep us looking or appearing to look competitive, but what I really think we could have and should have done is make one winter deal that improves our longterm future.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

The 140-180 IP from Morales is very optomistic to say the least, seeing he pitched his career high of 76.1 IP last year. To think he would double that without hitting a major wall ala Doubie last year is unrealistic IMO, nevermind the possible arm issues that usually comes with adding that much workload...

Dempster brings a lot more to the table with his 14 years of MLB experience. I know we dont agree on this and I respect your POV, but I think signing Dempster was clearly the right move for THEIR plan. If they were thinking more along the lines of your plan, then I would have to agree with you. But for what they want to do, its the right choice.

Tazawa, although very promising is not close to where Dempster is right now as we speak. Now, if they were to stretch him out and give him about 100-120IP then add to it next year I might change my mind. But right now Tazawa cant give you anywhere near what Dempster can.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I apologize for the miscommunication. I wasnt saying you were packing it in. I was referring to looking more towards 2014-15 than 2013...

In response to southpaw777's comment:

Franklin has pitched over 150 innings in his professional baseball career (2007) and 135 in 2008.

I realize Taz is not being stretched out, but had we not signed Dempster, he could have been told early enough that he'd be a starter. 

IMO, he is better than Dempster right now-- as is even.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

I didn't take it as directed at me, but there is no reason why we couldn't have used this winter to improve 2013 and do at least one thing about 2015 and beyond.  Just one.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

I realize Taz is not being stretched out, but had we not signed Dempster, he could have been told early enough that he'd be a starter. 

IMO, he is better than Dempster right now-- as is even.

 

Tazawa has 4 major league starts and 72 innings.  Nobody knows how he would do as a starter.  This is a leap of faith based on good numbers in 44 innings of middle relief. 

 

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I can think of one thing. We kept all our draft picks.

In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

He has nasty stuff. 

One could easily say that nobody knows how well Dempster will do in the AL east as he turns 35.

Granted, his low projection is higher than Tazawa's or Morales', but to me, I'd like to give the two kids a chance during a year made for this type of test. The money saved could have gotten a FA that would be here in 2015 or beyond. (It didn't have to be McCarthy at $25M/3.)

We also could use Mortensen or de la Rosa to take up some of the slack. Both are ML ready this year. de la Rosa only needs to show he can improve his control a little, and he can be ready by the end of May. There's also Aceves.

Dempster was too expensive of a bridge pitcher. We could have gotten something more meaningful and longer lasting. I hope we can get something worthwhile for him this deadline or next winter.

In response to carnie's comment:

I love that we kept all our picks and prospects (except for Pimental and Sands), but that is not a move to improve. It kept us the same: a bright future, but no brighter.

Not making a move does not improve anything.

Name one proactive thing we have done since the Dodger trade to improve our outlook in 2015 or beyond.

 

I get the "no long term deals tying our hands" argument. I'm not against that plan in a weak winter FA season, but nobody is going to convince me that there wasn't one deal or signing out there that would have made us a better team in 2015 or beyond, without significantly hurting our meager chances in 2013 either.

I used the McCarthy signing as just one example. It might not even be the best choice to make my point, but it would have been one move that improved our outlook for 2015, and in my opinion, the combination of McCarthy and more innings from Morales, Tazawa, DLR and others would not have lessened our 2013 chances one bit, in fact, I think we'd be better or the same even if McCarthy pitches only 50-75 innings this year.

Come on guys, Dempster turns 36 in May. He had a great WHIP (1.04) with the Cubs in 2012, but he was 1.44 with teh Rangers in his 12 starts there, was 1.45 in 2011 and has a career 1.43 WHIP and a 99 ERA+ (career 4.49 road ERA). He has very limited exposure to the AL East, but in some small sample sizes, it does not look pretty:

NYY  7.62 (28.1 IP)

TOR  5.27 (13.2)

TBR  4.24 (51.0)

BAL  1.35 (13.1)

Interleague: 11-15  4.63  (229.1)  1.465 WHIP

I'm not giving up on Dempster, but I don't see the make-up of this team as a good fit for him. I'd have rather gone young.

I hope I have to come back full of apologies. Nothing would please me more.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Yes, Tazawa showed great stuff last year.  But he may be a future closer instead of a starter.

Dempster at least is somewhat of a known quantity as a starter and a consistent innings consumer.  This staff probably needs a guy like him who can eat innings and take some of the burden off the bullpen, which has been getting overtaxed since the end of 2011.

I'm only talking about his value to the team this year.  I agree that his 2015 value is nil.  

 

In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

I'd have been a little more OK with Dempster had we made a couple moves that helped us in 2015 or beyond. They ddin't have to be big deals, but just something to help going forward.

It's like they saw the Dodger deal as the whole of that part of the plan, and the winter as only for 2013.

I'm hoping the trade deadline addreses the future, and I'll be happy with the the 12 month period starting with the trade.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I think you will get your wish Moon. it just isnt when you would have liked to see it happen. My guess is that after evaluating what they already have and maybe letting a couple kids to build up some real value, they will make that move for a legit MLB talent with a few years of control or other mlb ready prospects they need.

It'll happen Moon, we just have to be patient. Im sure if there was a move to be made this past offseason that made sense to fit their plan, they wouldve jumped at it.

Right now they have a team that will be competetive, held on to draft picks and the $$ that comes with that. This year is an evaluation year (Im tired of hearing "bridge year"). They needed to field a team that will compete as well as change that clubhouse attitude. Step 1 is done. Throughout this year and next offseason step 2 will happen. Hang in there Moonie, you'll get your wish.

I'd have been a little more OK with Dempster had we made a couple moves that helped us in 2015 or beyond. They ddin't have to be big deals, but just something to help going forward.

It's like they saw the Dodger deal as the whole of that part of the plan, and the winter as only for 2013.

I'm hoping the trade deadline addreses the future, and I'll be happy with the the 12 month period starting with the trade.

 

I think you will get your wish Moon. it just isnt when you would have liked to see it happen. My guess is that after evaluating what they already have and maybe letting a couple kids to build up some real value, they will make that move for a legit MLB talent with a few years of control or other mlb ready prospects they need.

 

It'll happen Moon, we just have to be patient. Im sure if there was a move to be made this past offseason that made sense to fit their plan, they wouldve jumped at it.

Right now they have a team that will be competetive, held on to draft picks and the $$ that comes with that. This year is an evaluation year (Im tired of hearing "bridge year"). They needed to field a team that will compete as well as change that clubhouse attitude. Step 1 is done. Throughout this year and next offseason step 2 will happen. Hang in there Moonie, you'll get your wish.

 

I am "hanging in there". I'm not as upset as I might sound. If we start at the Dodger trade, I'm happy with the overall moves made. I understand the "balance". I understand the need to keep viewership high. I understand the reasoning for no long term deals in a weak winter FA market.

I had hoped we had done 1-2 moves to improve our longer outlook, but teh Dodger trade was a fantastic trade. I am pretty certain DLR and/or Webster will be contributing in a significant way in the next 1-3 years and beyond. If not, I applaude the effort and as I said at the time of the trade, I love the trade even if we got no prospects. 4 for Loney was great! We dumped so much salary over so many years, that we have to be able to do better with that money.

One example I have mentioned: Lester for Myers. If we extend Lester after a nice 2013 season, then I'm happy that we improved our longterm outlook. The McCarthy for 3 years vs 2 years of Dempster is another mentioned disagreement, but it's not that big of a deal. Basically, I had my hopes up for further future development over the winter, and it didn't really happen, unless we end up extending Hanrahan and he does well. My biggest concern right now is that Ben migh be too reluctant to part with some players for prospects this July out of some false sense of competitiveness or being afraid to look bad by trading players he just signed or losing viewership by trading someone like a hot Ellsbury. We'll see what happenes, but I have not lost faith in Ben's resolve to turn us into a winner by 2015. Nobody has ever heard me say, "fire Ben". I'm giving him an opportunity to prove himself, and my leash is not short... as some here's are.

I'm excited about the start of this season. I am praying for great health, passionate play, and a surprise or two.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

I'd have been a little more OK with Dempster had we made a couple moves that helped us in 2015 or beyond. They ddin't have to be big deals, but just something to help going forward.

It's like they saw the Dodger deal as the whole of that part of the plan, and the winter as only for 2013.

I'm hoping the trade deadline addreses the future, and I'll be happy with the the 12 month period starting with the trade.

 

I think you will get your wish Moon. it just isnt when you would have liked to see it happen. My guess is that after evaluating what they already have and maybe letting a couple kids to build up some real value, they will make that move for a legit MLB talent with a few years of control or other mlb ready prospects they need.

 

It'll happen Moon, we just have to be patient. Im sure if there was a move to be made this past offseason that made sense to fit their plan, they wouldve jumped at it.

Right now they have a team that will be competetive, held on to draft picks and the $$ that comes with that. This year is an evaluation year (Im tired of hearing "bridge year"). They needed to field a team that will compete as well as change that clubhouse attitude. Step 1 is done. Throughout this year and next offseason step 2 will happen. Hang in there Moonie, you'll get your wish.

 

I am "hanging in there". I'm not as upset as I might sound. If we start at the Dodger trade, I'm happy with the overall moves made. I understand the "balance". I understand the need to keep viewership high. I understand the reasoning for no long term deals in a weak winter FA market.

I had hoped we had done 1-2 moves to improve our longer outlook, but teh Dodger trade was a fantastic trade. I am pretty certain DLR and/or Webster will be contributing in a significant way in the next 1-3 years and beyond. If not, I applaude the effort and as I said at the time of the trade, I love the trade even if we got no prospects. 4 for Loney was great! We dumped so much salary over so many years, that we have to be able to do better with that money.

One example I have mentioned: Lester for Myers. If we extend Lester after a nice 2013 season, then I'm happy that we improved our longterm outlook. The McCarthy for 3 years vs 2 years of Dempster is another mentioned disagreement, but it's not that big of a deal. Basically, I had my hopes up for further future development over the winter, and it didn't really happen, unless we end up extending Hanrahan and he does well. My biggest concern right now is that Ben migh be too reluctant to part with some players for prospects this July out of some false sense of competitiveness or being afraid to look bad by trading players he just signed or losing viewership by trading someone like a hot Ellsbury. We'll see what happenes, but I have not lost faith in Ben's resolve to turn us into a winner by 2015. Nobody has ever heard me say, "fire Ben". I'm giving him an opportunity to prove himself, and my leash is not short... as some here's are.

I'm excited about the start of this season. I am praying for great health, passionate play, and a urprise or two.

 
Moon,

I think CJ Cron, the Angels young 1B/DH might be a good move for the future.  In another post I proposed trading Salty and Doubront for him.  I don't see the Angels needing this kid even though he is still two or three years away.  Salty and Doubront would probably help their cause more.  It may be too much to offer and I believe hes coming off labrum surgery but a tough kid.

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2900

I think Taz could be as effective or more than Doub.

In response to craze4sox's comment:

They might just get a possible impact bat since they are now picking #7 since all of them are usually gone when they usually pick...Keep Kris Bryant on your radar. He could fill the 1b hole for many years, and being a college kid might not take as long to make it to the MLB team. Kid is a beast.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

I know your still positive about the season Moon. Im hoping by the trade deadline they have a better idea of what prospects they want to keep and who they would be willing to add to a possible trade.

I think Im one of the few people who fully believe in BC and the team hes building. I know you do too. Call me a pollyanna or a bootlicker I guess ;)

In response to southpaw777's comment:

 

In response to craze4sox's comment:

 

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

I'd have been a little more OK with Dempster had we made a couple moves that helped us in 2015 or beyond. They ddin't have to be big deals, but just something to help going forward.

It's like they saw the Dodger deal as the whole of that part of the plan, and the winter as only for 2013.

I'm hoping the trade deadline addreses the future, and I'll be happy with the the 12 month period starting with the trade.

 

I think you will get your wish Moon. it just isnt when you would have liked to see it happen. My guess is that after evaluating what they already have and maybe letting a couple kids to build up some real value, they will make that move for a legit MLB talent with a few years of control or other mlb ready prospects they need.

 

It'll happen Moon, we just have to be patient. Im sure if there was a move to be made this past offseason that made sense to fit their plan, they wouldve jumped at it.

Right now they have a team that will be competetive, held on to draft picks and the $$ that comes with that. This year is an evaluation year (Im tired of hearing "bridge year"). They needed to field a team that will compete as well as change that clubhouse attitude. Step 1 is done. Throughout this year and next offseason step 2 will happen. Hang in there Moonie, you'll get your wish.

 

I am "hanging in there". I'm not as upset as I might sound. If we start at the Dodger trade, I'm happy with the overall moves made. I understand the "balance". I understand the need to keep viewership high. I understand the reasoning for no long term deals in a weak winter FA market.

I had hoped we had done 1-2 moves to improve our longer outlook, but teh Dodger trade was a fantastic trade. I am pretty certain DLR and/or Webster will be contributing in a significant way in the next 1-3 years and beyond. If not, I applaude the effort and as I said at the time of the trade, I love the trade even if we got no prospects. 4 for Loney was great! We dumped so much salary over so many years, that we have to be able to do better with that money.

One example I have mentioned: Lester for Myers. If we extend Lester after a nice 2013 season, then I'm happy that we improved our longterm outlook. The McCarthy for 3 years vs 2 years of Dempster is another mentioned disagreement, but it's not that big of a deal. Basically, I had my hopes up for further future development over the winter, and it didn't really happen, unless we end up extending Hanrahan and he does well. My biggest concern right now is that Ben migh be too reluctant to part with some players for prospects this July out of some false sense of competitiveness or being afraid to look bad by trading players he just signed or losing viewership by trading someone like a hot Ellsbury. We'll see what happenes, but I have not lost faith in Ben's resolve to turn us into a winner by 2015. Nobody has ever heard me say, "fire Ben". I'm giving him an opportunity to prove himself, and my leash is not short... as some here's are.

I'm excited about the start of this season. I am praying for great health, passionate play, and a urprise or two.

 
Moon,

I think CJ Cron, the Angels young 1B/DH might be a good move for the future.  In another post I proposed trading Salty and Doubront for him.  I don't see the Angels needing this kid even though he is still two or three years away.  Salty and Doubront would probably help their cause more.  It may be too much to offer and I believe hes coming off labrum surgery but a tough kid.

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2900

I think Taz could be as effective or more than Doub.

 

They might just get a possible impact bat since they are now picking #7 since all of them are usually gone when they usually pick...Keep Kris Bryant on your radar. He could fill the 1b hole for many years, and being a college kid might not take as long to make it to the MLB team. Kid is a beast.

 

Looks like another good prospect, I wonder if anyone of our FO reads these threads :)

 

In response to craze4sox's comment:

Im sure they are very aware of him. Especially seeing hes projected to go in the top 10.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

 

In response to craze4sox's comment:

 

In response to southpaw777's comment:

 

In response to craze4sox's comment:

 

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

I'd have been a little more OK with Dempster had we made a couple moves that helped us in 2015 or beyond. They ddin't have to be big deals, but just something to help going forward.

It's like they saw the Dodger deal as the whole of that part of the plan, and the winter as only for 2013.

I'm hoping the trade deadline addreses the future, and I'll be happy with the the 12 month period starting with the trade.

 

I think you will get your wish Moon. it just isnt when you would have liked to see it happen. My guess is that after evaluating what they already have and maybe letting a couple kids to build up some real value, they will make that move for a legit MLB talent with a few years of control or other mlb ready prospects they need.

 

It'll happen Moon, we just have to be patient. Im sure if there was a move to be made this past offseason that made sense to fit their plan, they wouldve jumped at it.

Right now they have a team that will be competetive, held on to draft picks and the $$ that comes with that. This year is an evaluation year (Im tired of hearing "bridge year"). They needed to field a team that will compete as well as change that clubhouse attitude. Step 1 is done. Throughout this year and next offseason step 2 will happen. Hang in there Moonie, you'll get your wish.

 

I am "hanging in there". I'm not as upset as I might sound. If we start at the Dodger trade, I'm happy with the overall moves made. I understand the "balance". I understand the need to keep viewership high. I understand the reasoning for no long term deals in a weak winter FA market.

I had hoped we had done 1-2 moves to improve our longer outlook, but teh Dodger trade was a fantastic trade. I am pretty certain DLR and/or Webster will be contributing in a significant way in the next 1-3 years and beyond. If not, I applaude the effort and as I said at the time of the trade, I love the trade even if we got no prospects. 4 for Loney was great! We dumped so much salary over so many years, that we have to be able to do better with that money.

One example I have mentioned: Lester for Myers. If we extend Lester after a nice 2013 season, then I'm happy that we improved our longterm outlook. The McCarthy for 3 years vs 2 years of Dempster is another mentioned disagreement, but it's not that big of a deal. Basically, I had my hopes up for further future development over the winter, and it didn't really happen, unless we end up extending Hanrahan and he does well. My biggest concern right now is that Ben migh be too reluctant to part with some players for prospects this July out of some false sense of competitiveness or being afraid to look bad by trading players he just signed or losing viewership by trading someone like a hot Ellsbury. We'll see what happenes, but I have not lost faith in Ben's resolve to turn us into a winner by 2015. Nobody has ever heard me say, "fire Ben". I'm giving him an opportunity to prove himself, and my leash is not short... as some here's are.

I'm excited about the start of this season. I am praying for great health, passionate play, and a urprise or two.

 
Moon,

I think CJ Cron, the Angels young 1B/DH might be a good move for the future.  In another post I proposed trading Salty and Doubront for him.  I don't see the Angels needing this kid even though he is still two or three years away.  Salty and Doubront would probably help their cause more.  It may be too much to offer and I believe hes coming off labrum surgery but a tough kid.

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2900

I think Taz could be as effective or more than Doub.

 

They might just get a possible impact bat since they are now picking #7 since all of them are usually gone when they usually pick...Keep Kris Bryant on your radar. He could fill the 1b hole for many years, and being a college kid might not take as long to make it to the MLB team. Kid is a beast.

 
Looks like another good prospect, I wonder if anyone of our FO reads these threads :)

 

Im sure they are very aware of him. Especially seeing hes projected to go in the top 10.

 

 

I'm sure they are just joking, the last thing anyone in our FO cares about is our ideas.

 

I'm pretty sure every player development guy in America will be watching Kris Bryant with interest this year. They'll be looking hard at Mark Appel, Ryne Stanek, Bobby Wahl, Austin Meadows, Austin Wilson and Sean Manaea too.

In response to carnie's comment:

 

I'm pretty sure every player development guy in America will be watching Kris Bryant with interest this year. They'll be looking hard at Mark Appel, Ryne Stanek, Bobby Wahl, Austin Meadows, Austin Wilson and Sean Manaea too.

 

 

Building the farm doesn't need to come from choosing the perfect talent for your club as long as you can utilize the resources you do have to address the areas in need each year. Thats what builds a strong farm and keeps you competitive. FA's are much more expensive and just as risky in most cases.

Moon,

I think CJ Cron, the Angels young 1B/DH might be a good move for the future.  In another post I proposed trading Salty and Doubront for him.  I don't see the Angels needing this kid even though he is still two or three years away.  Salty and Doubront would probably help their cause more.  It may be too much to offer and I believe hes coming off labrum surgery but a tough kid.

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2900

I think Taz could be as effective or more than Doub.

I'm not up on other team's prospects that much, but this is the type of deal I expected this winter. Maybe 1 or 2 like this, and then backfilling with short term deals until we know which prospects can take over or not.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

Moon,

I think CJ Cron, the Angels young 1B/DH might be a good move for the future.  In another post I proposed trading Salty and Doubront for him.  I don't see the Angels needing this kid even though he is still two or three years away.  Salty and Doubront would probably help their cause more.  It may be too much to offer and I believe hes coming off labrum surgery but a tough kid.

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2900

I think Taz could be as effective or more than Doub.

I'm not up on other team's prospects that much, but this is the type of deal I expected this winter. Maybe 1 or 2 like this, and then backfilling with short term deals until we know which prospects can take over or not.

 

I just expected a more well thought out, less expensive plan.  It would have helped us move forward and save a bit towards the next FA class to help fill another void.

 

In response to craze4sox's comment:

 

I just expected a more well thought out, less expensive plan.  It would have helped us move forward and save a bit towards the next FA class to help fill another void.

The 'save a bit for next year' idea doesn't really work now because of the exorbitant penalties for going over the lux tax threshold that kick in in 2014.  The good news, though, is that the lux tax threshold increases by $11 million in 2014. 

Personally I was happy to see the team spend up close to the LT threshold this year because it indicates that ownership is still committed to maxing out the payroll.  That's a good thing.

In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

 

In response to craze4sox's comment:

 

I just expected a more well thought out, less expensive plan.  It would have helped us move forward and save a bit towards the next FA class to help fill another void.

The 'save a bit for next year' idea doesn't really work now because of the exorbitant penalties for going over the lux tax threshold that kick in in 2014.  The good news, though, is that the lux tax threshold increases by $11 million in 2014. 

Personally I was happy to see the team spend up close to the LT threshold this year because it indicates that ownership is still committed to maxing out the payroll.  That's a good thing.

 

I guess Hfx, its a competitive team if we plan on going year to year again but I would love to see some long term players/goals.  By no means will we win another championship anytime soon without one.

We may finally have some chemistry and fun in the clubhouse but I only see that going so far with our present talent, especially if the injury bug hits again.