A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    It's for 2 months with one month being Septemeber when Vazquez can be called up to rest Ross in late innings and provide excellent defense for Lava as well.



    So an old guy and two raw rookies handling the catching in September.  Seems a tad risky to me.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I'm fine with Salty, Doubront, and the rest...2 games up...looking good. Way past any possible expectations...great job by Farrell, by the GM, Napoli best FA signing, Buchholz an All-Star starter maybe. Incredible job of going from crap to good in one off-season. Didn't think it would be possible. Again, owners too must know what they are doing. Won 2 WS with those owners in charge.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    It's for 2 months with one month being Septemeber when Vazquez can be called up to rest Ross in late innings and provide excellent defense for Lava as well.

     



    So an old guy and two raw rookies handling the catching in September.  Seems a tad risky to me.

     

     



    Yes, it is, but is risky counting on Salty to hit at the end of a season.

    Ross is not an old catcher who is worn out by 12 seasons of full time play. I do not think he is as fragile as most catchers his age might be.

    I do not think it is asking too much to have him play 65% of the games for two months with that last month having the ability to be rested in late game situations by Vazquez.

    What you are not considering is the plus we get at another position.

    We could also pick up a veteran servicable catcher in late August (like the Mets did with Shoppach last year) for dirt cheap.

     

    As I have said, Salty is not my first or even second choice of players to try and trade. Ellsbury and Drew are 1 and 2. Doubront is probably my #3.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I'm fine with Salty, Doubront, and the rest...2 games up...looking good. Way past any possible expectations...great job by Farrell, by the GM, Napoli best FA signing, Buchholz an All-Star starter maybe. Incredible job of going from crap to good in one off-season. Didn't think it would be possible. Again, owners too must know what they are doing. Won 2 WS with those owners in charge.



    I'm with you. Leave well enough alone. Let this group go out and play and see where it takes us. If they need to fill a hole at the deadline, then of course go out and try to make the team better. But to suggest to trade your starting catcher, your starting center fielder ( and lead off hitter ) your starting SS and your number 4starter ( who is dirt cheap and productive) is ludicrous. we have great depth in the minors, we re competing, the future looks good. We can ALL sit here on our computers and play arm chair GM, but we have NO IDEA who is tradable, and for what.. Do guys like moon really believe that the front office isn't exploring EVERY avenue to make this team better, not only for the present, but the future also. He was also one of the guys calling to dump Lackey for a bag of balls. Now he's our no. 2 starter. I kept telling people to give the guy a chance. He pitched with a torn freakin tendon in his elbo in 11 because the team asked him too. The guy has a pretty darn good record of being a horse and a tor starter...where are ALL the Lackey haters ( moon and the rest ) now...it's what have you done lately on this board..

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     



    You won't get anything for Carp other than a AAA journeyman if your lucky. PLEAS...stop thinking were going to get top prospects for AAAA guys. Not gonna happen...or else every team would be doing it. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     



    I don't think anyone will give us a useful player or prospect for Carp. If so, I get your point.

    One point, JBJ cannot play 1B in case Naps gets hurt.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Do guys like moon really believe that the front office isn't exploring EVERY avenue to make this team better, not only for the present, but the future also. 

    When I have I ever said anything even remotely close to what you are saying here?

    I know Ben is trying hard. I praised the Dodger trade and called it "perhaps the best Sox trade of my lifetime".

    I have disagreed with some of his signings and trades, but have often said he deserves a chance to prove himself before anyone gets too critical. His hands were tied for much of last year.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    ...where are ALL the Lackey haters ( moon and the rest ) now...it's what have you done lately on this board..

    Too funny!

    softy criticizes me for being a Lackey lover.

    You criticize me for being a Lackey hater.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    But to suggest to trade your starting catcher, your starting center fielder ( and lead off hitter ) your starting SS and your number 4starter ( who is dirt cheap and productive) is ludicrous

    I must have missed the post where someone said trade all 4 of these guys.

     

    Here's probably the most extreme thing I'd think of:

    I'd trade Ellsbury and Drew, because I think Iggy and JBJ are better- right now and going forward. Get some prospects for them and then flip them along with Doubront for a much better starting pitcher under team control beyond 2013 and hopefully longer.

    You may have missed my posts about wanting to extend Salty. I like Salty and have defended him perhaps more than anyone on this site. My talk of trading him was based on several factors:

    1) We are not planning on extending or re-signing him and get nothing when he walks.

    2) Trading Ellsbury and/or Drew was not an option, because the return value was not equal or higher, and offers for Salty were better.

    3) The return value for Salty is worth more than 2 months of his service.

    What part of this 3 part plan rubs you the wrong way?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     

     



    You won't get anything for Carp other than a AAA journeyman if your lucky. PLEAS...stop thinking were going to get top prospects for AAAA guys. Not gonna happen...or else every team would be doing it. 

     



    I didn't say we would get a top prospect for Carp but just a few posts ago several people said "Oh, no, why would you want to trade Carp"?

    We are blowing a year of control for JBJ anyway this year. Why not give him mlb development time, as compared to Carp?

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    But to suggest to trade your starting catcher, your starting center fielder ( and lead off hitter ) your starting SS and your number 4starter ( who is dirt cheap and productive) is ludicrous

    I must have missed the post where someone said trade all 4 of these guys.

     

    Here's probably the most extreme thing I'd think of:

    I'd trade Ellsbury and Drew, because I think Iggy and JBJ are better- right now and going forward. Get some prospects for them and then flip them along with Doubront for a much better starting pitcher under team control beyond 2013 and hopefully longer.

    You may have missed my posts about wanting to extend Salty. I like Salty and have defended him perhaps more than anyone on this site. My talk of trading him was based on several factors:

    1) We are not planning on extending or re-signing him and get nothing when he walks.

    2) Trading Ellsbury and/or Drew was not an option, because the return value was not equal or higher, and offers for Salty were better.

    3) The return value for Salty is worth more than 2 months of his service.

    What part of this 3 part plan rubs you the wrong way?



    Ok...so who are the prospects that you're going to get for Drew and Ells? And who is the pitcher that you are going to swindle from team A that is under "team control" that right now is better than Doubrant? You do know how valuable young pitchers under team control are don't you? My guess is there aren't many out there right now that a team would give up. Maybe Chris Sale, he's young and under team control. Now I'd do that...The game today, due to the cost of it, is ALL about accumulating young, good, teamed control pitching. And Doubrant is one of those guys. As is Tazawa,Webster,Barnes,Ranaudo,RDLR,and others......it's pretty clear that that is the RS approach going forward. Upgrading our 5th starter who is 15-12 over the last 2 yrs and cost us chump change right now is prob not a priority for the front office IMO...

      They will keep both Drew and Ells and take the comp pick or picks for both and be happy with that ( unless someone blows them away or they lose 20 in a row and fall out of contention)  Iggy is here to stay and will be the util infielder the rest of the yr, and if Drew falters will take over. It's a long yr and he ll play a lot. Same with JBJ..both will play quite a bit this yr and be ready to take SS and cf for good next yr. which is 20 mil or more saved off our payroll. So big...Heck...Naps might even net us a comp pick.I don't see them throwing any real money at Salty at this point either, so I think he walks too. With him, Naps,Ells, Drew, Hanrahan and others gone next yr your looking at 40 plus  or minus to fill 2 or 3 holes. Catcher, 1b, and maybe closer. Brian McCann, if he shows his labrum is 100 percent would be my target in the offseason to solve our catching woes. With Lava backing up waiting in the wings. 1b they ll just get a rental to buy another yr toset Boggie and Cecchini a little closer to the bigs to give them more options. They're in pretty good shape right now, both short term, and long term. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    The one thing I disagree with, makonikyman, is that I don't think we've had 'catching woes' this year.  Offensively our catchers are above average.  Defensively, I look at our pitching numbers first.  We're now T2 in the AL in ERA.  I've said it a number of times lately but I think Salty is really arriving as a good pitcher's catcher.  Consider this, for one thing - in the last 7 games Salty has caught starts by Aceves, Morales and Doubront, and they have all been solid starts and wins.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    The one thing I disagree with, makonikyman, is that I don't think we've had 'catching woes' this year.  Offensively our catchers are above average.  Defensively, I look at our pitching numbers first.  We're now T2 in the AL in ERA.  I've said it a number of times lately but I think Salty is really arriving as a good pitcher's catcher.  Consider this, for one thing - in the last 7 games Salty has caught starts by Aceves, Morales and Doubront, and they have all been solid starts and wins.

     



    I'll give you that. Which is why I wouldn't trade him this yr (like some have suggested ) . The question is do you sign him to a 4/5 yr deal at 40/50 mil? Which is what he'll prob get somewhere if he continues to have a good yr. I'd rather give McCann ( assuming his labrum checks out ok ) who is only a yr older at 29 and is a career 275/25/350 obp a 5 yr deal at more money because I think he's that much more of an upgrade. Money will not be an issue next yr ( 40 mil coming off the payroll ) like I said. This team is in good shape and have set themselves up to acquire and upgrade key positions like catcher. Lots of options....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Then again, the same catcher caught largely the same staff last year to an ERA of around 5.

    There is really no reason to think Salty has arrived defensively other than coincidence. According to the metrics, he is costing his team 21 runs this year which is freaking huge for a catcher. And Ross's CERA is a lot better than Saltys this year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    As of this moment, Salty has the worst dwar of all starting catchers in baseball. dwar is overall defensive value. Salty's is currently negative by the largest amount in baseball for a catcher:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA/order/false

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Salty is currently hitting. Good for him. Now let's trade him and be done with it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Then again, the same catcher caught largely the same staff last year to an ERA of around 5.

    There is really no reason to think Salty has arrived defensively other than coincidence. According to the metrics, he is costing his team 21 runs this year which is freaking huge for a catcher. And Ross's CERA is a lot better than Saltys this year.



    You're prob right. I've never really been a big Salty fan behind the plate. And I would not commit to him a long term contract after this yr, but I don't think I would trade him this yr either. The staff does seem a lot more comfortable throwing to him so I would just play out the string and let him walk. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    As of this moment, Salty has the worst dwar of all starting catchers in baseball. dwar is overall defensive value. Salty's is currently negative by the largest amount in baseball for a catcher:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA/order/false



    Really interesting....where does McCann rate in that category over the last 5 yrs if you don't mind me asking? He would be an interesting potential target next yr IMO...

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    As of this moment, Salty has the worst dwar of all starting catchers in baseball. dwar is overall defensive value. Salty's is currently negative by the largest amount in baseball for a catcher:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA/order/false

     



    Really interesting....where does McCann rate in that category over the last 5 yrs if you don't mind me asking? He would be an interesting potential target next yr IMO...

     

    [/QUOTE]


    In my recollection, no team has ever prospered picking up Atlanta cast-offs. Buyer beware.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    As of this moment, Salty has the worst dwar of all starting catchers in baseball. dwar is overall defensive value. Salty's is currently negative by the largest amount in baseball for a catcher:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/c/sort/catcherERA/order/false

     

     



    Really interesting....where does McCann rate in that category over the last 5 yrs if you don't mind me asking? He would be an interesting potential target next yr IMO...

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    In my recollection, no team has ever prospered picking up Atlanta cast-offs. Buyer beware.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    At career 280/25/350 he'd be worth 4/60 at 1st base even if he can't catch. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects's comment:

    Salty is currently hitting. Good for him. Now let's trade him and be done with it.



    And you think Lavarnway will be just fine as a replacement.

    Here are some hard cold numbers on Lavarnway: his major league CERA of 5.58 is higher than his major league OPS of .519.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Hey, can someone explain to me who this stud is who I saw playing 3rd for the RS last night against the Yanks?  He looks pretty buff like he's been lifting weights, he jerked out a HR, got hugged by Pedey and Papi, slapped leather all over the field and in the paper this morning I see he's hitting .430?  I haven't seem him on the roster until recently and he doesn't seem to be this Capar Milquetoast people have been pulling their hair out about on this site for two weeks, saying he'd be lucky to his scratch infield singles, couldn't hold up his weight with just his glove, hadn't earned a shot yet, blah, blah, blah.  He sort of reminds me of someone named Pedey who came up and was terrible for a month, but management stuck with him and he turned into a monster.  I'm just happy all the keening and teeth gnashing and hair pulling can stop for a while until this kid falls on his face.  Geez, if he drops all the way done to .250 should we try to dump him off on the Siberian Water Buffalos?

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I didn't say we would get a top prospect for Carp but just a few posts ago several people said "Oh, no, why would you want to trade Carp"?

     

    We are blowing a year of control for JBJ anyway this year. Why not give him mlb development time, as compared to Carp?

     

    Because it's not a choice between one and the other, and we need carp to back-up Napoli at 1B.

    Carp also has 3 arb years left, and could blossum into our next 1Bman or DH and back-up corner OF'er.

    Sox4ever

     
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