A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I d trade ANYBODY for that matter if the price is right. Though I certainly am not going to single out Doubrant like you have been for the past 8 mos. right now i would trade Lester over Doubrant to a contender who would def over pay for a veteran playoff experienced pitcher. Poor clubhouse relations.....REALLY? Since Aug of 11 ( a pretty darn good sample size) Lester is 16-19 with a 4.34 era, in that same span, Doubrant is 15-12 4.78 era. One makes pretty much the league min, the other has lots of mileage on his left arm and makes 13mil. And you would prefer to trade the cheap young guy with upside over the aging soon to be free agent who is trending down? That doesn't make sense to me. Lester would bring more from a contender at this point than Doubrant IMO...

    Did you miss my posts about wanting to trade Lester for Myers last winter?

    (I also suggested Lester and Doubront for Myers and the other prospects KC gave to TB or for Myers and Butler if the Naps signing fell through, of for Myers and Alex Gordon.)

    I'll trade anyone for higher value. That's my point. I do not want to trade Doubront for less value. I am not giving up on Doubront, but I think the side issues worry me more than you. The guy was fighting for a chance to make the Sox rotation in 2011, and came to camp out of shape. I'm sorry, but to me, that is a huge red flag. I'm willing to cut a kid some slack, and let him learn from mistakes. You know he must have read about what people felt about his attitude on conditioning after 2011, and yet this year, he does the same thing. Unlike baseball, with me, two strikes and you're outta here (for equal or better value).

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I d trade ANYBODY for that matter if the price is right. Though I certainly am not going to single out Doubrant like you have been for the past 8 mos. right now i would trade Lester over Doubrant to a contender who would def over pay for a veteran playoff experienced pitcher. Poor clubhouse relations.....REALLY? Since Aug of 11 ( a pretty darn good sample size) Lester is 16-19 with a 4.34 era, in that same span, Doubrant is 15-12 4.78 era. One makes pretty much the league min, the other has lots of mileage on his left arm and makes 13mil. And you would prefer to trade the cheap young guy with upside over the aging soon to be free agent who is trending down? That doesn't make sense to me. Lester would bring more from a contender at this point than Doubrant IMO...

    Did you miss my posts about wanting to trade Lester for Myers last winter?

    (I also suggested Lester and Doubront for Myers and the other prospects KC gave to TB or for Myers or Butler instead of the other prosects if the Naps signing fell through, or for Myers and Alex Gordon with us throwing in Brentz or another prospect.)

    I'll trade anyone for higher value. That's my point. I do not want to trade Doubront for less value. I am not giving up on Doubront, but I think the side issues worry me more than you. The guy was fighting for a chance to make the Sox rotation in 2011, and came to camp out of shape. I'm sorry, but to me, that is a huge red flag. I'm willing to cut a kid some slack, and let him learn from mistakes. You know he must have read about what people felt about his attitude on conditioning after 2011, and yet this year, he does the same thing. Unlike baseball, with me, two strikes and you're outta here (for equal or better value).




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from darrylfries. Show darrylfries's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.

     



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     

     



    Yes, I still want to trade him, even more so now that his stock has climbed recently.

     

    Guys, you keep thinking that because I say I want to trade a player, it is because I think he is useless or has not future. I want to trade some guys for several reasons that all are geared towards making us better not worse:

    * because I think some GM will overpay for the player.

    * because I think a desperate GM in need of a specific position player will give more

    * because when some players become FAs this winter, we get nothing in return.

    * because when Ellsbury walks, all we get is a draft pick (around the 30th).

    * because when a guy like Doubie comes to camp 2 times out of shape it leads to injury, loss of mechanics, poor clubhouse relations, and more.

    * because we have a higher need at another position and the replacement player we have within our system is not a large step down at the position we trade from- at least as not as large a differential as the one we gain at the position of return value. (Some, like Iggy and JBJ are not even a steps down in my opinion.)

     

    For the hundreth time, I'm not for handing away players with value. I recognize they have value, and I'm sure others see the same value you see in Doubront, and perhaps they minimize his attitude issues like you appear to be doing, and will give us more value in return than Doubront is worth to use now. If we can get equal or better value for Doubront, I'd trade him in a heart beat. Same with Ellsbury & Drew.

    ___________________________________________

     

    Not sure I see that happeneing, but Ive always thought Doubie was a solid middle to back of the rotation starter anyway. I also didnt think they would give up on a kid with his potential that easy.

     

    It's that "potential" that makes him a hot trade commodity. Other GMs see it too.

    It's not "giving up" on a player to trade him for better value: it's just good baseball.

     



    I d trade ANYBODY for that matter if the price is right. Though I certainly am not going to single out Doubrant like you have been for the past 8 mos. right now i would trade Lester over Doubrant to a contender who would def over pay for a veteran playoff experienced pitcher. Poor clubhouse relations.....REALLY? Since Aug of 11 ( a pretty darn good sample size) Lester is 16-19 with a 4.34 era, in that same span, Doubrant is 15-12 4.78 era. One makes pretty much the league min, the other has lots of mileage on his left arm and makes 13mil. And you would prefer to trade the cheap young guy with upside over the aging soon to be free agent who is trending down? That doesn't make sense to me. Lester would bring more from a contender at this point than Doubrant IMO...

     



    Yea I agree 'm a little tired of trade this player now or else.

      Eveyone says trade this player without mentioning a player to take their place  Propose some specific trades not I'll trade for equal or better value. This goes without saying.

    Yes if we start losing Lester will bring us more that Doubront and possibly save us a lot of money in the future.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Moon has a point and of course he would only trade for value. He has been the biggest advocate here for finding a way to get a #1 or 2 starter by sending supplementary guys like Doubront out to get them. That is a tough thing to achieve but we should be looking to achieve it when opportunities arise.

    For example, if Philly does go 20 games out of it at some point a guy like Cliff Lee would be a huge addition for this team. We should be looking for such deals and if young, controllable, cheap players like Doubront help achieve that sort of partial salary dump ...GREAT!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    We all know how tough that is to do though, including Moon.

    To me, we are in a position where we are not going to want to move some guys who might be key to winning this year. I think we absolutely have a chance to win this year. To me, beyond "prospects" like we have on the farm now, we have a few guys we could realistically trade though at the deadline:

    Salty or Ross and replace one of them with Lavarnway. I think Lavarnway may actually prove better than either before long. We still have Vasquez as injury back up.

    Carp and replace him with JBJ ( It's not like we can move Gomes right now and Carp is probably a better transition with JBJ as they both are LH hitters ). Historically, Gomes has been the better player than Carp and Carp is just more tradeable and replaceable right now with JBJ. We still have both Nava and Ortiz available to back up 1st. It wasn't long ago when Carp was available dirt cheap. Right now we would probably be selling high.

    Aceves ( We have Morales and Webster and even more starter depth if necessary on the farm )

    We should keep Ellsbury as he is a real potential all star and we are trying to win IMO. If you look at our run differential, we are clearly the best team in the AL East so far. I'd still rather keep Drew and use Iglesias in Ciriaco's slot. We need some depth there and keeping guys in the infield healthy is very important. Iglesias gets hurt a lot. Let's keep him fresh.

    We could trade a reliever but those pesky injuries can really mess up that scenario and relievers can go into the tank sometimes. I'd probably keep all starters unless we are trading for a better one.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Moon has a point and of course he would only trade for value. He has been the biggest advocate here for finding a way to get a #1 or 2 starter by sending supplementary guys like Doubront out to get them. That is a tough thing to achieve but we should be looking to achieve it when opportunities arise.

    For example, if Philly does go 20 games out of it at some point a guy like Cliff Lee would be a huge addition for this team. We should be looking for such deals and if young, controllable, cheap players like Doubront help achieve that sort of partial salary dump ...GREAT!



    I do think Lee is a fantastic pitcher, but his cost and age make me hesitate to trade several prospects for. If Philly pays a significant chunk of his deal, I'd give Doubront and a couple blocked prospects for him.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all know how tough that is to do though, including Moon.

    Extremely difficult, but not impossible.

    To me, we are in a position where we are not going to want to move some guys who might be key to winning this year. I think we absolutely have a chance to win this year. To me, beyond "prospects" like we have on the farm now, we have a few guys we could realistically trade though at the deadline:

    Salty or Ross and replace one of them with Lavarnway. I think Lavarnway may actually prove better than either before long. We still have Vasquez as injury back up.

    It's not my first choice in trade, but with Salty's late season histories, it may not be a big drop off to Lava, but again, only if we get something good for Salty. To me, I'd be happy with a nice prospect, but if we are going for a win this year, it might be hard to trade him as part of a package to fill a greater need area.

    Carp and replace him with JBJ ( It's not like we can move Gomes right now and Carp is probably a better transition with JBJ as they both are LH hitters ). Historically, Gomes has been the better player than Carp and Carp is just more tradeable and replaceable right now with JBJ. We still have both Nava and Ortiz available to back up 1st. It wasn't long ago when Carp was available dirt cheap. Right now we would probably be selling high.

    He's not going to net us anything significant.

    Aceves ( We have Morales and Webster and even more starter depth if necessary on the farm )

    Again, nothing significant as it stands now. I think his upside potential for our team may outweigh what we can get in return. He's also our SP injury insurance.

    We should keep Ellsbury as he is a real potential all star and we are trying to win IMO. If you look at our run differential, we are clearly the best team in the AL East so far. I'd still rather keep Drew and use Iglesias in Ciriaco's slot. We need some depth there and keeping guys in the infield healthy is very important. Iglesias gets hurt a lot. Let's keep him fresh.

    At the deadline, Drew will be owed about $3M. If we pay $1-2M of the deal, we might get a nice player in return, and to me, we'd improve at the SS position with Iggy anyways.

    Unless Ellsbury stays hot and gets healthy, he will not bring us back much. I'd look hard to trade him for a player projected to be better than the sandwich draft pick.

    We could trade a reliever but those pesky injuries can really mess up that scenario and relievers can go into the tank sometimes. I'd probably keep all starters unless we are trading for a better one.

    I'd try and trade 2-4 of these guys for a better starting pitcher who is under team control for beyond 2013. 


    As you said, not easy.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    We all know how tough that is to do though, including Moon.

    To me, we are in a position where we are not going to want to move some guys who might be key to winning this year. I think we absolutely have a chance to win this year. To me, beyond "prospects" like we have on the farm now, we have a few guys we could realistically trade though at the deadline:

    Salty or Ross and replace one of them with Lavarnway. I think Lavarnway may actually prove better than either before long. We still have Vasquez as injury back up.

    Carp and replace him with JBJ ( It's not like we can move Gomes right now and Carp is probably a better transition with JBJ as they both are LH hitters ). Historically, Gomes has been the better player than Carp and Carp is just more tradeable and replaceable right now with JBJ. We still have both Nava and Ortiz available to back up 1st. It wasn't long ago when Carp was available dirt cheap. Right now we would probably be selling high.

    Aceves ( We have Morales and Webster and even more starter depth if necessary on the farm )

    We should keep Ellsbury as he is a real potential all star and we are trying to win IMO. If you look at our run differential, we are clearly the best team in the AL East so far. I'd still rather keep Drew and use Iglesias in Ciriaco's slot. We need some depth there and keeping guys in the infield healthy is very important. Iglesias gets hurt a lot. Let's keep him fresh.

    We could trade a reliever but those pesky injuries can really mess up that scenario and relievers can go into the tank sometimes. I'd probably keep all starters unless we are trading for a better one.


    WHY would you get rid of Carp ?    Great bench player, filling in very well right now, has power and average. Cost only cash to acquire and salary iis low. Historically even has good splits vs. lefties. ( SS Size)

    With Ortiz aging, why not consider Carp as possible long term DH replacement ? Career-wise, when healthy, he hits. Okay, defense not so much. But i look at his development over minor league career, at what ages & stages he's made the leaps upward, he closely mimics Ortiz's career but at one year older. Much fewer walks per plate app, but power , etc. right around 80 to 85 % of Ortiz.. Would YOU pay around $ 500 K / year for 80 % of a 2003 model David Ortiz ?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    It's not my first choice in trade, but with Salty's late season histories, it may not be a big drop off to Lava, but again, only if we get something good for Salty.



    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    It's not my first choice in trade, but with Salty's late season histories, it may not be a big drop off to Lava, but again, only if we get something good for Salty.

     



    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

     

     



    Yes, and although I have defended Salty's defense, I have never said he is better than average. He's also had a tough time blocking bad pitches this year and is getting worse on his CS rate.

     

    2012:  852 innings

    6 PBs

    23 WPs

    18% CS

    2013: 336 innings

    5 PBs

    13 WPs

    15% CS

     

    The CERA numbers have continued to improve, but if Ross catches 60-65% of the games, I think that might offset the loss with Lava.

    The drop off from Salty (65%)/Ross 35% to Ross (65%)/Lava (35%) must be less than the gain we get back in trade, or else I say no.

    (BTW, I have mentioned the defensive drop off on other threads.)

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

    Yes, and although I have defended Salty's defense, I have never said he is better than average. He's also had a tough time blocking bad pitches this year and is getting worse on his CS rate.

    2012:  852 innings

    6 PBs

    23 WPs

    18% CS

    2013: 336 innings

    5 PBs

    13 WPs

    15% CS

    The CERA numbers have continued to improve, but if Ross catches 60-65% of the games, I think that might offset the loss with Lava.

    The drop off from Salty (65%)/Ross 35% to Ross (65%)/Lava (35%) must be less than the gain we get back in trade, or else I say no.



    Ross catching 60-65% of the games is a mighty big if in itself.  That's much more than his workload of recent seasons and puts him at significant risk of breaking down physically.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

    Yes, and although I have defended Salty's defense, I have never said he is better than average. He's also had a tough time blocking bad pitches this year and is getting worse on his CS rate.

    2012:  852 innings

    6 PBs

    23 WPs

    18% CS

    2013: 336 innings

    5 PBs

    13 WPs

    15% CS

    The CERA numbers have continued to improve, but if Ross catches 60-65% of the games, I think that might offset the loss with Lava.

    The drop off from Salty (65%)/Ross 35% to Ross (65%)/Lava (35%) must be less than the gain we get back in trade, or else I say no.

     



    Ross catching 60-65% of the games is a mighty big if in itself.  That's much more than his workload of recent seasons and puts him at significant risk of breaking down physically.

     



    It's for 2 months with one month being Septemeber when Vazquez can be called up to rest Ross in late innings and provide excellent defense for Lava as well.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    It's for 2 months with one month being Septemeber when Vazquez can be called up to rest Ross in late innings and provide excellent defense for Lava as well.



    So an old guy and two raw rookies handling the catching in September.  Seems a tad risky to me.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I'm fine with Salty, Doubront, and the rest...2 games up...looking good. Way past any possible expectations...great job by Farrell, by the GM, Napoli best FA signing, Buchholz an All-Star starter maybe. Incredible job of going from crap to good in one off-season. Didn't think it would be possible. Again, owners too must know what they are doing. Won 2 WS with those owners in charge.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    It's for 2 months with one month being Septemeber when Vazquez can be called up to rest Ross in late innings and provide excellent defense for Lava as well.

     



    So an old guy and two raw rookies handling the catching in September.  Seems a tad risky to me.

     

     



    Yes, it is, but is risky counting on Salty to hit at the end of a season.

    Ross is not an old catcher who is worn out by 12 seasons of full time play. I do not think he is as fragile as most catchers his age might be.

    I do not think it is asking too much to have him play 65% of the games for two months with that last month having the ability to be rested in late game situations by Vazquez.

    What you are not considering is the plus we get at another position.

    We could also pick up a veteran servicable catcher in late August (like the Mets did with Shoppach last year) for dirt cheap.

     

    As I have said, Salty is not my first or even second choice of players to try and trade. Ellsbury and Drew are 1 and 2. Doubront is probably my #3.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I'm fine with Salty, Doubront, and the rest...2 games up...looking good. Way past any possible expectations...great job by Farrell, by the GM, Napoli best FA signing, Buchholz an All-Star starter maybe. Incredible job of going from crap to good in one off-season. Didn't think it would be possible. Again, owners too must know what they are doing. Won 2 WS with those owners in charge.



    I'm with you. Leave well enough alone. Let this group go out and play and see where it takes us. If they need to fill a hole at the deadline, then of course go out and try to make the team better. But to suggest to trade your starting catcher, your starting center fielder ( and lead off hitter ) your starting SS and your number 4starter ( who is dirt cheap and productive) is ludicrous. we have great depth in the minors, we re competing, the future looks good. We can ALL sit here on our computers and play arm chair GM, but we have NO IDEA who is tradable, and for what.. Do guys like moon really believe that the front office isn't exploring EVERY avenue to make this team better, not only for the present, but the future also. He was also one of the guys calling to dump Lackey for a bag of balls. Now he's our no. 2 starter. I kept telling people to give the guy a chance. He pitched with a torn freakin tendon in his elbo in 11 because the team asked him too. The guy has a pretty darn good record of being a horse and a tor starter...where are ALL the Lackey haters ( moon and the rest ) now...it's what have you done lately on this board..

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     



    You won't get anything for Carp other than a AAA journeyman if your lucky. PLEAS...stop thinking were going to get top prospects for AAAA guys. Not gonna happen...or else every team would be doing it. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     



    I don't think anyone will give us a useful player or prospect for Carp. If so, I get your point.

    One point, JBJ cannot play 1B in case Naps gets hurt.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Do guys like moon really believe that the front office isn't exploring EVERY avenue to make this team better, not only for the present, but the future also. 

    When I have I ever said anything even remotely close to what you are saying here?

    I know Ben is trying hard. I praised the Dodger trade and called it "perhaps the best Sox trade of my lifetime".

    I have disagreed with some of his signings and trades, but have often said he deserves a chance to prove himself before anyone gets too critical. His hands were tied for much of last year.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    ...where are ALL the Lackey haters ( moon and the rest ) now...it's what have you done lately on this board..

    Too funny!

    softy criticizes me for being a Lackey lover.

    You criticize me for being a Lackey hater.

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    But to suggest to trade your starting catcher, your starting center fielder ( and lead off hitter ) your starting SS and your number 4starter ( who is dirt cheap and productive) is ludicrous

    I must have missed the post where someone said trade all 4 of these guys.

     

    Here's probably the most extreme thing I'd think of:

    I'd trade Ellsbury and Drew, because I think Iggy and JBJ are better- right now and going forward. Get some prospects for them and then flip them along with Doubront for a much better starting pitcher under team control beyond 2013 and hopefully longer.

    You may have missed my posts about wanting to extend Salty. I like Salty and have defended him perhaps more than anyone on this site. My talk of trading him was based on several factors:

    1) We are not planning on extending or re-signing him and get nothing when he walks.

    2) Trading Ellsbury and/or Drew was not an option, because the return value was not equal or higher, and offers for Salty were better.

    3) The return value for Salty is worth more than 2 months of his service.

    What part of this 3 part plan rubs you the wrong way?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Carp's BAPIP in 2013 is .381. No way that continues. Last year he hit .213 in mlb, and .223 in over 150 AAA at bats. Average fielder at best.

    We got him for cash. He didn't even cost us a player just a few months ago. He's still not worth a lot but he does have some value since he has had a good year. As with Moon, I wouldn't give him away but if we need to cover for an injury at the break he would be the first guy I would look to trade.

    I recognize that he has done well this year but JBJ is a lot better defensively and projects to hit about as well IMO. We can't get anything for Gomes but Gomes probably hits better going forward than Carp.

    And JBJ is a left handed hitter, as is Carp. It's a cleaner transaction.

     

     



    You won't get anything for Carp other than a AAA journeyman if your lucky. PLEAS...stop thinking were going to get top prospects for AAAA guys. Not gonna happen...or else every team would be doing it. 

     



    I didn't say we would get a top prospect for Carp but just a few posts ago several people said "Oh, no, why would you want to trade Carp"?

    We are blowing a year of control for JBJ anyway this year. Why not give him mlb development time, as compared to Carp?

     
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    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    But to suggest to trade your starting catcher, your starting center fielder ( and lead off hitter ) your starting SS and your number 4starter ( who is dirt cheap and productive) is ludicrous

    I must have missed the post where someone said trade all 4 of these guys.

     

    Here's probably the most extreme thing I'd think of:

    I'd trade Ellsbury and Drew, because I think Iggy and JBJ are better- right now and going forward. Get some prospects for them and then flip them along with Doubront for a much better starting pitcher under team control beyond 2013 and hopefully longer.

    You may have missed my posts about wanting to extend Salty. I like Salty and have defended him perhaps more than anyone on this site. My talk of trading him was based on several factors:

    1) We are not planning on extending or re-signing him and get nothing when he walks.

    2) Trading Ellsbury and/or Drew was not an option, because the return value was not equal or higher, and offers for Salty were better.

    3) The return value for Salty is worth more than 2 months of his service.

    What part of this 3 part plan rubs you the wrong way?



    Ok...so who are the prospects that you're going to get for Drew and Ells? And who is the pitcher that you are going to swindle from team A that is under "team control" that right now is better than Doubrant? You do know how valuable young pitchers under team control are don't you? My guess is there aren't many out there right now that a team would give up. Maybe Chris Sale, he's young and under team control. Now I'd do that...The game today, due to the cost of it, is ALL about accumulating young, good, teamed control pitching. And Doubrant is one of those guys. As is Tazawa,Webster,Barnes,Ranaudo,RDLR,and others......it's pretty clear that that is the RS approach going forward. Upgrading our 5th starter who is 15-12 over the last 2 yrs and cost us chump change right now is prob not a priority for the front office IMO...

      They will keep both Drew and Ells and take the comp pick or picks for both and be happy with that ( unless someone blows them away or they lose 20 in a row and fall out of contention)  Iggy is here to stay and will be the util infielder the rest of the yr, and if Drew falters will take over. It's a long yr and he ll play a lot. Same with JBJ..both will play quite a bit this yr and be ready to take SS and cf for good next yr. which is 20 mil or more saved off our payroll. So big...Heck...Naps might even net us a comp pick.I don't see them throwing any real money at Salty at this point either, so I think he walks too. With him, Naps,Ells, Drew, Hanrahan and others gone next yr your looking at 40 plus  or minus to fill 2 or 3 holes. Catcher, 1b, and maybe closer. Brian McCann, if he shows his labrum is 100 percent would be my target in the offseason to solve our catching woes. With Lava backing up waiting in the wings. 1b they ll just get a rental to buy another yr toset Boggie and Cecchini a little closer to the bigs to give them more options. They're in pretty good shape right now, both short term, and long term. 

     
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