A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.

     



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     



    Not sure I see that happeneing, but Ive always thought Doubie was a solid middle to back of the rotation starter anyway. I also didnt think they would give up on a kid with his potential that easy.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.

     



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     

     



    Not sure I see that happeneing, but Ive always thought Doubie was a solid middle to back of the rotation starter anyway. I also didnt think they would give up on a kid with his potential that easy.

     



    I agree. Was just throwing a little dig at moon for calling to trade him all off season long. Why? The kid right now is a pretty darn good 4/5 with pretty good upside and CHEAP. If Nieves can get through to him and Doubie buys in I see no reason AT ALL he can't make the jump to a 2/3 guy in the rotation with his stuff. Lester on the other hand is a diff story. I think he knows he can't blow it by guys anymore and is having a hard time adjusting to becoming a more complete pitcher. Plus...he's got an awful lot of innings on that arm over the last 6/7 yrs and is due to break down ala Lackey and Becket in thier early 30s. I would be very hesitant to extend him like some people are calling for. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.

     



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     

     



    Not sure I see that happeneing, but Ive always thought Doubie was a solid middle to back of the rotation starter anyway. I also didnt think they would give up on a kid with his potential that easy.

     

     



    I agree. Was just throwing a little dig at moon for calling to trade him all off season long. Why? The kid right now is a pretty darn good 4/5 with pretty good upside and CHEAP. If Nieves can get through to him and Doubie buys in I see no reason AT ALL he can't make the jump to a 2/3 guy in the rotation with his stuff. Lester on the other hand is a diff story. I think he knows he can't blow it by guys anymore and is having a hard time adjusting to becoming a more complete pitcher. Plus...he's got an awful lot of innings on that arm over the last 6/7 yrs and is due to break down ala Lackey and Becket in thier early 30s. I would be very hesitant to extend him like some people are calling for. 

     

     




    I had considered extending him (as if I actually could ;), but after thinking about it more I feel using his option for 2014 to get a better idea if an extension should even be offered is the smarter move. Besides the first few starts this year, he has mostly struggled to get through 6IP. Enough to make me reconsider my position on the extension anyway.

     

    Depending on this years draft and the progression of guys like Ranaudo, Webster, RDLR, Barnes, Workman, Hernandez and Owens, Lester will really need to step it up a notch and prove hes worthy of an extension after next year.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.

     



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     

     



    Not sure I see that happeneing, but Ive always thought Doubie was a solid middle to back of the rotation starter anyway. I also didnt think they would give up on a kid with his potential that easy.

     

     



    I agree. Was just throwing a little dig at moon for calling to trade him all off season long. Why? The kid right now is a pretty darn good 4/5 with pretty good upside and CHEAP. If Nieves can get through to him and Doubie buys in I see no reason AT ALL he can't make the jump to a 2/3 guy in the rotation with his stuff. Lester on the other hand is a diff story. I think he knows he can't blow it by guys anymore and is having a hard time adjusting to becoming a more complete pitcher. Plus...he's got an awful lot of innings on that arm over the last 6/7 yrs and is due to break down ala Lackey and Becket in thier early 30s. I would be very hesitant to extend him like some people are calling for. 

     

     




    I had considered extending him (as if I actually could ;), but after thinking about it more I feel using his option for 2014 to get a better idea if an extension should even be offered is the smarter move. Besides the first few starts this year, he has mostly struggled to get through 6IP. Enough to make me reconsider my position on the extension anyway.

     

    Depending on this years draft and the progression of guys like Ranaudo, Webster, RDLR, Barnes, Workman, Hernandez and Owens, Lester will really need to step it up a notch and prove hes worthy of an extension after next year.



    Agree...use the option and see what happens. He'd want a Beckett type extension at 4/70 at least which I think would be crazy. Though...we gave Demster 3/40 so what do I know :) I would love to see them pick Manaea at pick 7 who I think is right there with Grey and Appel as being close to MLB ready, so in 15 you could have him, Webster, Barnes, Ranaudo and RDLR all knocking at the door. With Owens right behind them. Pretty exciting to have that kind of Potential in the pipeline. Been following the RS for 45 yrs and we have never had that. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    NWIH they pick Manea at # 7 considering his recent injuries and performances. I wouldn't be surprised if the Yanks get him at #30 or so though.

    I'm hoping they get Stewart or Frazier. They have a decent chance of getting either. Anything less than that will be a disapointment but if those 2 are gone maybe someone else will then be available who wasn't projected to last until #7.

    What I don't want are Ball, Meadows or someone from out of nowhere. To me both are too risky. When you pick at #7 there should be high upside with minimal risk.

    It's coming up in 5 days guys. It will be here before we know it.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Nava is now 6th in the AL in OBP, 9th in OPS and T8th in RBI.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Doubront is a decent #5. I'm not hopeful for much more than that but if he pulls off a good #5 I'm happy. He's still cheap and so far has been excellent against the Yanks. Why not keep him?

    This team's strength is it's depth. We have back ups for back ups and plenty of trade chips if we need them to cover for an injury at the break.

    The upper levels of the farm are still kicking some serious fanny. Bogaerts and Swihart are hitting close to .500 this week. Solid pitching from Webster, Workman, Ranaudo...etc.

    What is a rebuilding year? We just decided to skip all that!

    I remain a Pollyanna! 

    Watching Vernon Wells bungle around in LF for the Yanks today made my week. What a joy!

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    How about that play Iggy made on the slow roller?   Incredible!



    I think he took about 8 or 9 steps in, swwoped his glove towards the ball, made the quickest transition from glove to hand I've ever seen, and threw a bullet on the run at full steam.

    Yes!

    Incredible!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    That really was an amazing play.  I've never seen one quite like it.  It wasn't even a close play at first base.  The hitter was out by plenty.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.

     



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     

     



    Yes, I still want to trade him, even more so now that his stock has climbed recently.

     

    Guys, you keep thinking that because I say I want to trade a player, it is because I think he is useless or has not future. I want to trade some guys for several reasons that all are geared towards making us better not worse:

    * because I think some GM will overpay for the player.

    * because I think a desperate GM in need of a specific position player will give more

    * because when some players become FAs this winter, we get nothing in return.

    * because when Ellsbury walks, all we get is a draft pick (around the 30th).

    * because when a guy like Doubie comes to camp 2 times out of shape it leads to injury, loss of mechanics, poor clubhouse relations, and more.

    * because we have a higher need at another position and the replacement player we have within our system is not a large step down at the position we trade from- at least as not as large a differential as the one we gain at the position of return value. (Some, like Iggy and JBJ are not even a steps down in my opinion.)

     

    For the hundreth time, I'm not for handing away players with value. I recognize they have value, and I'm sure others see the same value you see in Doubront, and perhaps they minimize his attitude issues like you appear to be doing, and will give us more value in return than Doubront is worth to use now. If we can get equal or better value for Doubront, I'd trade him in a heart beat. Same with Ellsbury & Drew.

    ___________________________________________

     

    Not sure I see that happeneing, but Ive always thought Doubie was a solid middle to back of the rotation starter anyway. I also didnt think they would give up on a kid with his potential that easy.

     

    It's that "potential" that makes him a hot trade commodity. Other GMs see it too.

    It's not "giving up" on a player to trade him for better value: it's just good baseball.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Team leaders:

    BA: Iggy .431, Pedey .333, Ortiz .326, Nava .296

    OBP: Iggy .455, Pedey .416, Ortiz .400, Nava .398

    SLG: Carp .606, Ortiz .596, Iggy .529, Napoli .500, Nava .485, Salty .455

    HR: Ortiz & Napoli 9, Nava & WMB 8, Salty 5

    RBI: Napoli 44, Nava 37, Ortiz 35, Pedey 30, Drew 22

    Runs: Pedey 38, Nava & Napoli 31, Ellsbury 30

    2B+3B: Napoli 21, Pedey 16, Ells 16, Salty 14, WMB 12, Ortiz 11, Carp 10

    RC: Pedey 40, Naps 36, Nava 35, Elss 32, Ortiz 30

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Big game tonight. I'm pulling for Doubront, but I'm very concerned.

     



    Still wanna trade him moon ? McCarver last nite brought up that Doubrants mechanics were out of whack early in the season which caused his loss of velo and that he's become the pet project of Nieves. It looks like its paying off. My prediction that Doubie will overtake Lester as the 2/3 guy behind Buch is looking better and better these last 3 or 4 times out for both. 

     

     



    Yes, I still want to trade him, even more so now that his stock has climbed recently.

     

    Guys, you keep thinking that because I say I want to trade a player, it is because I think he is useless or has not future. I want to trade some guys for several reasons that all are geared towards making us better not worse:

    * because I think some GM will overpay for the player.

    * because I think a desperate GM in need of a specific position player will give more

    * because when some players become FAs this winter, we get nothing in return.

    * because when Ellsbury walks, all we get is a draft pick (around the 30th).

    * because when a guy like Doubie comes to camp 2 times out of shape it leads to injury, loss of mechanics, poor clubhouse relations, and more.

    * because we have a higher need at another position and the replacement player we have within our system is not a large step down at the position we trade from- at least as not as large a differential as the one we gain at the position of return value. (Some, like Iggy and JBJ are not even a steps down in my opinion.)

     

    For the hundreth time, I'm not for handing away players with value. I recognize they have value, and I'm sure others see the same value you see in Doubront, and perhaps they minimize his attitude issues like you appear to be doing, and will give us more value in return than Doubront is worth to use now. If we can get equal or better value for Doubront, I'd trade him in a heart beat. Same with Ellsbury & Drew.

    ___________________________________________

     

    Not sure I see that happeneing, but Ive always thought Doubie was a solid middle to back of the rotation starter anyway. I also didnt think they would give up on a kid with his potential that easy.

     

    It's that "potential" that makes him a hot trade commodity. Other GMs see it too.

    It's not "giving up" on a player to trade him for better value: it's just good baseball.



    I d trade ANYBODY for that matter if the price is right. Though I certainly am not going to single out Doubrant like you have been for the past 8 mos. right now i would trade Lester over Doubrant to a contender who would def over pay for a veteran playoff experienced pitcher. Poor clubhouse relations.....REALLY? Since Aug of 11 ( a pretty darn good sample size) Lester is 16-19 with a 4.34 era, in that same span, Doubrant is 15-12 4.78 era. One makes pretty much the league min, the other has lots of mileage on his left arm and makes 13mil. And you would prefer to trade the cheap young guy with upside over the aging soon to be free agent who is trending down? That doesn't make sense to me. Lester would bring more from a contender at this point than Doubrant IMO...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I d trade ANYBODY for that matter if the price is right. Though I certainly am not going to single out Doubrant like you have been for the past 8 mos. right now i would trade Lester over Doubrant to a contender who would def over pay for a veteran playoff experienced pitcher. Poor clubhouse relations.....REALLY? Since Aug of 11 ( a pretty darn good sample size) Lester is 16-19 with a 4.34 era, in that same span, Doubrant is 15-12 4.78 era. One makes pretty much the league min, the other has lots of mileage on his left arm and makes 13mil. And you would prefer to trade the cheap young guy with upside over the aging soon to be free agent who is trending down? That doesn't make sense to me. Lester would bring more from a contender at this point than Doubrant IMO...

    Did you miss my posts about wanting to trade Lester for Myers last winter?

    (I also suggested Lester and Doubront for Myers and the other prospects KC gave to TB or for Myers and Butler if the Naps signing fell through, of for Myers and Alex Gordon.)

    I'll trade anyone for higher value. That's my point. I do not want to trade Doubront for less value. I am not giving up on Doubront, but I think the side issues worry me more than you. The guy was fighting for a chance to make the Sox rotation in 2011, and came to camp out of shape. I'm sorry, but to me, that is a huge red flag. I'm willing to cut a kid some slack, and let him learn from mistakes. You know he must have read about what people felt about his attitude on conditioning after 2011, and yet this year, he does the same thing. Unlike baseball, with me, two strikes and you're outta here (for equal or better value).

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I d trade ANYBODY for that matter if the price is right. Though I certainly am not going to single out Doubrant like you have been for the past 8 mos. right now i would trade Lester over Doubrant to a contender who would def over pay for a veteran playoff experienced pitcher. Poor clubhouse relations.....REALLY? Since Aug of 11 ( a pretty darn good sample size) Lester is 16-19 with a 4.34 era, in that same span, Doubrant is 15-12 4.78 era. One makes pretty much the league min, the other has lots of mileage on his left arm and makes 13mil. And you would prefer to trade the cheap young guy with upside over the aging soon to be free agent who is trending down? That doesn't make sense to me. Lester would bring more from a contender at this point than Doubrant IMO...

    Did you miss my posts about wanting to trade Lester for Myers last winter?

    (I also suggested Lester and Doubront for Myers and the other prospects KC gave to TB or for Myers or Butler instead of the other prosects if the Naps signing fell through, or for Myers and Alex Gordon with us throwing in Brentz or another prospect.)

    I'll trade anyone for higher value. That's my point. I do not want to trade Doubront for less value. I am not giving up on Doubront, but I think the side issues worry me more than you. The guy was fighting for a chance to make the Sox rotation in 2011, and came to camp out of shape. I'm sorry, but to me, that is a huge red flag. I'm willing to cut a kid some slack, and let him learn from mistakes. You know he must have read about what people felt about his attitude on conditioning after 2011, and yet this year, he does the same thing. Unlike baseball, with me, two strikes and you're outta here (for equal or better value).




     
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    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Moon has a point and of course he would only trade for value. He has been the biggest advocate here for finding a way to get a #1 or 2 starter by sending supplementary guys like Doubront out to get them. That is a tough thing to achieve but we should be looking to achieve it when opportunities arise.

    For example, if Philly does go 20 games out of it at some point a guy like Cliff Lee would be a huge addition for this team. We should be looking for such deals and if young, controllable, cheap players like Doubront help achieve that sort of partial salary dump ...GREAT!

     
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    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    We all know how tough that is to do though, including Moon.

    To me, we are in a position where we are not going to want to move some guys who might be key to winning this year. I think we absolutely have a chance to win this year. To me, beyond "prospects" like we have on the farm now, we have a few guys we could realistically trade though at the deadline:

    Salty or Ross and replace one of them with Lavarnway. I think Lavarnway may actually prove better than either before long. We still have Vasquez as injury back up.

    Carp and replace him with JBJ ( It's not like we can move Gomes right now and Carp is probably a better transition with JBJ as they both are LH hitters ). Historically, Gomes has been the better player than Carp and Carp is just more tradeable and replaceable right now with JBJ. We still have both Nava and Ortiz available to back up 1st. It wasn't long ago when Carp was available dirt cheap. Right now we would probably be selling high.

    Aceves ( We have Morales and Webster and even more starter depth if necessary on the farm )

    We should keep Ellsbury as he is a real potential all star and we are trying to win IMO. If you look at our run differential, we are clearly the best team in the AL East so far. I'd still rather keep Drew and use Iglesias in Ciriaco's slot. We need some depth there and keeping guys in the infield healthy is very important. Iglesias gets hurt a lot. Let's keep him fresh.

    We could trade a reliever but those pesky injuries can really mess up that scenario and relievers can go into the tank sometimes. I'd probably keep all starters unless we are trading for a better one.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Moon has a point and of course he would only trade for value. He has been the biggest advocate here for finding a way to get a #1 or 2 starter by sending supplementary guys like Doubront out to get them. That is a tough thing to achieve but we should be looking to achieve it when opportunities arise.

    For example, if Philly does go 20 games out of it at some point a guy like Cliff Lee would be a huge addition for this team. We should be looking for such deals and if young, controllable, cheap players like Doubront help achieve that sort of partial salary dump ...GREAT!



    I do think Lee is a fantastic pitcher, but his cost and age make me hesitate to trade several prospects for. If Philly pays a significant chunk of his deal, I'd give Doubront and a couple blocked prospects for him.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We all know how tough that is to do though, including Moon.

    Extremely difficult, but not impossible.

    To me, we are in a position where we are not going to want to move some guys who might be key to winning this year. I think we absolutely have a chance to win this year. To me, beyond "prospects" like we have on the farm now, we have a few guys we could realistically trade though at the deadline:

    Salty or Ross and replace one of them with Lavarnway. I think Lavarnway may actually prove better than either before long. We still have Vasquez as injury back up.

    It's not my first choice in trade, but with Salty's late season histories, it may not be a big drop off to Lava, but again, only if we get something good for Salty. To me, I'd be happy with a nice prospect, but if we are going for a win this year, it might be hard to trade him as part of a package to fill a greater need area.

    Carp and replace him with JBJ ( It's not like we can move Gomes right now and Carp is probably a better transition with JBJ as they both are LH hitters ). Historically, Gomes has been the better player than Carp and Carp is just more tradeable and replaceable right now with JBJ. We still have both Nava and Ortiz available to back up 1st. It wasn't long ago when Carp was available dirt cheap. Right now we would probably be selling high.

    He's not going to net us anything significant.

    Aceves ( We have Morales and Webster and even more starter depth if necessary on the farm )

    Again, nothing significant as it stands now. I think his upside potential for our team may outweigh what we can get in return. He's also our SP injury insurance.

    We should keep Ellsbury as he is a real potential all star and we are trying to win IMO. If you look at our run differential, we are clearly the best team in the AL East so far. I'd still rather keep Drew and use Iglesias in Ciriaco's slot. We need some depth there and keeping guys in the infield healthy is very important. Iglesias gets hurt a lot. Let's keep him fresh.

    At the deadline, Drew will be owed about $3M. If we pay $1-2M of the deal, we might get a nice player in return, and to me, we'd improve at the SS position with Iggy anyways.

    Unless Ellsbury stays hot and gets healthy, he will not bring us back much. I'd look hard to trade him for a player projected to be better than the sandwich draft pick.

    We could trade a reliever but those pesky injuries can really mess up that scenario and relievers can go into the tank sometimes. I'd probably keep all starters unless we are trading for a better one.

    I'd try and trade 2-4 of these guys for a better starting pitcher who is under team control for beyond 2013. 


    As you said, not easy.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    We all know how tough that is to do though, including Moon.

    To me, we are in a position where we are not going to want to move some guys who might be key to winning this year. I think we absolutely have a chance to win this year. To me, beyond "prospects" like we have on the farm now, we have a few guys we could realistically trade though at the deadline:

    Salty or Ross and replace one of them with Lavarnway. I think Lavarnway may actually prove better than either before long. We still have Vasquez as injury back up.

    Carp and replace him with JBJ ( It's not like we can move Gomes right now and Carp is probably a better transition with JBJ as they both are LH hitters ). Historically, Gomes has been the better player than Carp and Carp is just more tradeable and replaceable right now with JBJ. We still have both Nava and Ortiz available to back up 1st. It wasn't long ago when Carp was available dirt cheap. Right now we would probably be selling high.

    Aceves ( We have Morales and Webster and even more starter depth if necessary on the farm )

    We should keep Ellsbury as he is a real potential all star and we are trying to win IMO. If you look at our run differential, we are clearly the best team in the AL East so far. I'd still rather keep Drew and use Iglesias in Ciriaco's slot. We need some depth there and keeping guys in the infield healthy is very important. Iglesias gets hurt a lot. Let's keep him fresh.

    We could trade a reliever but those pesky injuries can really mess up that scenario and relievers can go into the tank sometimes. I'd probably keep all starters unless we are trading for a better one.


    WHY would you get rid of Carp ?    Great bench player, filling in very well right now, has power and average. Cost only cash to acquire and salary iis low. Historically even has good splits vs. lefties. ( SS Size)

    With Ortiz aging, why not consider Carp as possible long term DH replacement ? Career-wise, when healthy, he hits. Okay, defense not so much. But i look at his development over minor league career, at what ages & stages he's made the leaps upward, he closely mimics Ortiz's career but at one year older. Much fewer walks per plate app, but power , etc. right around 80 to 85 % of Ortiz.. Would YOU pay around $ 500 K / year for 80 % of a 2003 model David Ortiz ?

     
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    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    It's not my first choice in trade, but with Salty's late season histories, it may not be a big drop off to Lava, but again, only if we get something good for Salty.



    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    It's not my first choice in trade, but with Salty's late season histories, it may not be a big drop off to Lava, but again, only if we get something good for Salty.

     



    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

     

     



    Yes, and although I have defended Salty's defense, I have never said he is better than average. He's also had a tough time blocking bad pitches this year and is getting worse on his CS rate.

     

    2012:  852 innings

    6 PBs

    23 WPs

    18% CS

    2013: 336 innings

    5 PBs

    13 WPs

    15% CS

     

    The CERA numbers have continued to improve, but if Ross catches 60-65% of the games, I think that might offset the loss with Lava.

    The drop off from Salty (65%)/Ross 35% to Ross (65%)/Lava (35%) must be less than the gain we get back in trade, or else I say no.

    (BTW, I have mentioned the defensive drop off on other threads.)

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

    Yes, and although I have defended Salty's defense, I have never said he is better than average. He's also had a tough time blocking bad pitches this year and is getting worse on his CS rate.

    2012:  852 innings

    6 PBs

    23 WPs

    18% CS

    2013: 336 innings

    5 PBs

    13 WPs

    15% CS

    The CERA numbers have continued to improve, but if Ross catches 60-65% of the games, I think that might offset the loss with Lava.

    The drop off from Salty (65%)/Ross 35% to Ross (65%)/Lava (35%) must be less than the gain we get back in trade, or else I say no.



    Ross catching 60-65% of the games is a mighty big if in itself.  That's much more than his workload of recent seasons and puts him at significant risk of breaking down physically.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I find it extremely surprising that you're only talking here about Lav having to replace Salty's 'late-season offense' with no mention of the defensive aspect.  Catcher, like shortstop, is a defense-first position is it not?  

    Yes, and although I have defended Salty's defense, I have never said he is better than average. He's also had a tough time blocking bad pitches this year and is getting worse on his CS rate.

    2012:  852 innings

    6 PBs

    23 WPs

    18% CS

    2013: 336 innings

    5 PBs

    13 WPs

    15% CS

    The CERA numbers have continued to improve, but if Ross catches 60-65% of the games, I think that might offset the loss with Lava.

    The drop off from Salty (65%)/Ross 35% to Ross (65%)/Lava (35%) must be less than the gain we get back in trade, or else I say no.

     



    Ross catching 60-65% of the games is a mighty big if in itself.  That's much more than his workload of recent seasons and puts him at significant risk of breaking down physically.

     



    It's for 2 months with one month being Septemeber when Vazquez can be called up to rest Ross in late innings and provide excellent defense for Lava as well.

     

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