A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Lot's of players' numbers jumped tonight!

    Team leaders in OBP:

    1) Iggy  .452

    2) Pedey .411

    3) Nava  .405

    4) Papi   .402

    Team leaders in SLG:

    1) Carp  .630

    2) Papi  .627

    3) Iggy  .586

    4) Nava .500

    5) Napoli .498

    6) Salty .484

     

    Sox4ever

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

     

    Drew lifted his OPS 60 points tonight to 749.  That's 107 points higher than WMB.  Drew has even driven in more runs per game than WMB.

    The way Drew and Iglesias are playing right now, WMB returning will not make us a better team.

     

     




     

     

    What to do??  There is no doubt that the FO is well aware of this.

    Are their games played about equal?

    Secondarily, a similar situation exists somewhat with Ellsbury...the way Nava is leading off and the way Bradley is playing.

    It wouldn't surprise me if both their injuries take a little longer to heal than expected.



    Amp, I'm not sure the team thinks we are a better team with Drew over WMB. Just because the short sample sizes to start the season indicate Drew is doing better, does not mean Ben thinks it will contibue as such. Also, the true choice for Ben, in his eyes, is probably Iggy vs WMB. My quess is he thinks Iggy is hitting over his head and will come down to earth. He already showed he believed that by demoting Iggy after a decent start.

     

    Nava is an OB machine. I caught a lot of grief for saying it was "long past time" to demote Ells from the #1 slot, but how can you move Nava out of that slot now?

     




     

    In essence, you're saying that Iggy will just have to wait out the time as a UI until drew is gone?  You have to admit that the kid looks flawless out there no matter where he plays.

    I'd love to see Nava stay where he is.  I feel the grief you received for this opinion was/is unjustified.  It would take a lot of moxie to move Ellsbury down, yet for the present, I think it would be best for the team.  The FO is probably hoping his value will increase if he stays healthy and goes on a streak.  So, thinking future consideration, they'll probably put him back on top.  The whole scenario, for the FO, is probably a big crap shoot.

    It's WMB I'm worried about. I really hope his batting and fielding slumps are injury related.  We certainly could use his power in the middle of the lineup.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Amp, I'm not sure the team thinks we are a better team with Drew over WMB. Just because the short sample sizes to start the season indicate Drew is doing better, does not mean Ben thinks it will contibue as such. Also, the true choice for Ben, in his eyes, is probably Iggy vs WMB. My quess is he thinks Iggy is hitting over his head and will come down to earth. He already showed he believed that by demoting Iggy after a decent start.

     

    Nava is an OB machine. I caught a lot of grief for saying it was "long past time" to demote Ells from the #1 slot, but how can you move Nava out of that slot now?

     




     

    In essence, you're saying that Iggy will just have to wait out the time as a UI until drew is gone?

    Sadly, yes, unless someone gets hurt, stay hurt or tumbles in numbers.

     

    I'd love to see Nava stay where he is.  I feel the grief you received for this opinion was/is unjustified.  It would take a lot of moxie to move Ellsbury down, yet for the present, I think it would be best for the team.  The FO is probably hoping his value will increase if he stays healthy and goes on a streak.  So, thinking future consideration, they'll probably put him back on top.  The whole scenario, for the FO, is probably a big crap shoot.

    In all fairness, jacoby did get hot the day I posted that thread, but I'm ready to ride Nava until he proves the ride is not worth it. Hopefull, that day is long away, but he has started strong in the past and fizzled out.

     

    It's WMB I'm worried about. I really hope his batting and fielding slumps are injury related.  We certainly could use his power in the middle of the lineup.

    I think some of us might have had unrealistic expectations for WMB after just a half season. I'm hoping he will adjust, get healthy, and get back to near what he was when healthy last year, but if Drew keeps hitting and Iggy fileds 3B like he has been recently, we may not miss a beat.

    As for that power bat, we could find one at the deadline, but right now, RF seems like the logical spot, and with Shane nicked up all the time, it's not likely we trade him for anything significant. I suppose he could platoon RF with Nava, play some CF when JBJ is overmatched at the plate (assuming Ells is dealt instead).

    I hope Ben doesn't listen to softy and pick up A Soriano.

    Hijole!

     

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/it_no_see_tv_nujTJReLBdX20UFB1uo4ZN?utm_campaign=OutbrainA&utm_source=OutbrainArticlepages&obref=obinsite

    Cano jogs to first and Buck/McCarver are affraid to say it.  You would think a guy going for a big contract would hustle.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    With the way JBJ looks, and with the reasonable amount of depth we have in the outfield, I can now see that trading Ellsbury before the deadline could be a realistic option.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In the 11 games since Iggy replaced WMB, we are 8-3 with 75 runs scored and 32 runs allowed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    Drew needs to play third-base and it as simple as that!  Iggy will slump at the plate at some point but not in the field; regardless of any future slump or not Iggy has shown he is quite capable of contributing to the offensive output of this team. 

     

     




    Sorry Burr, this makes not one bit of sense to me. Drew, who has never played 3b his entire career should be put there for Iggy, who has had time there and has done an exceptional job there so far? Really?

    Why fix what is clearly NOT BROKE. Drew hasnt hurt this team one bit defensively and has saved a few runs. We are better defensively just the way it is.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    With the way JBJ looks, and with the reasonable amount of depth we have in the outfield, I can now see that trading Ellsbury before the deadline could be a realistic option.




    I think they will keep Ells leading off because he was red hot before he got hurt. Ells is a game changer when hes on base without a doubt. Too bad hes so fragile, which is why I dont think teams would give us much for him. I also think the Sox value their depth right now and wouldnt be very willing to just trade it away. That goes for Drew and Salty too.

    Nava has been great, but I think the #2 or #3 slot for him is good. Hes also a good #5.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    With the way JBJ looks, and with the reasonable amount of depth we have in the outfield, I can now see that trading Ellsbury before the deadline could be a realistic option.

     




    I think they will keep Ells leading off because he was red hot before he got hurt. Ells is a game changer when hes on base without a doubt. Too bad hes so fragile, which is why I dont think teams would give us much for him. I also think the Sox value their depth right now and wouldnt be very willing to just trade it away. That goes for Drew and Salty too.

     

    Nava has been great, but I think the #2 or #3 slot for him is good. Hes also a good #5.



    Two weeks ago would have been the time to take Ells out of #1.  I agree, he just got hot so keep him there and hope for the best.  At least we know Nava and Victorino can leadoff if necessary and Carp is a much more productive #2 than Gomes which is why we could still use another RH bat.  I would still like to see Brentz get a shot.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    With the way JBJ looks, and with the reasonable amount of depth we have in the outfield, I can now see that trading Ellsbury before the deadline could be a realistic option.

     




    I think they will keep Ells leading off because he was red hot before he got hurt. Ells is a game changer when hes on base without a doubt. Too bad hes so fragile, which is why I dont think teams would give us much for him. I also think the Sox value their depth right now and wouldnt be very willing to just trade it away. That goes for Drew and Salty too.

     

    Nava has been great, but I think the #2 or #3 slot for him is good. Hes also a good #5.

    [/QUOTE]

    You're so right. People don't understand that is 162 game season. If we're going to make a run we need depth, last yr should have taught us that. There is plenty of games in the of for nave, JBJ,Vic,Ells n Gomes to rotate around and match up with other teams, or ride the hot bat, and rest guys when they're dinged up. They will take the comp pick for Ells, hope he gets hot, and be happy with that. Same thing with Drew...the front office obviously thinks he is better than Iggy over a 162 game season, or else they would have never signed him, and so do I at this point. Iggy will play a little SS, some 3b, and prob give Pedey a break over there at 2nd at some point. As of right now I don't see them making ANY moves with this team, and certainly not one that will weaken the strength of this team, which is their depth. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Our strength is our depth, one guy goes down, and another fills in very well so far, and more guys get to play and keep sharp and, in the case of the young players, gain experience.  Going to be interesting to see what if any trades are made at the deadline.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Critter23's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Moon has said repeatedly--and on the last page--that he's not for trading everybody on the team but--my words--a surgical trade of select players that may not come back/will not sign/etc. anyway.  Players whom we can replace with little or no drop off for a better pitcher or young hitter who will improve us up and down the order.  If you get a better pitcher for the top to middle of the rotation and every pitcher drops down one, then the whole rotation is better.  Same with the batting line-up.  He has explained this much better than I can in the past.  I think some people here think discussing trades is somehow blasphemous or disloyal when actually I think the point is to improve this team enough to be a WS threat for the next ten years.  If posters here think we are that right now and are concerned about breaking up the chemistry, then I get that.  Except I don't think we are there yet, and the right moves could put us there next year.  And with the solid veterans we have and the respect the coaching staff seems to receive, the overall stability, I don't think a trade will hurt this team if the guys think it makes them stronger.  Players want to win too.

    Also,  most discussing trades here say it's too early to be specific.  It depends on who's trading and what they need.  I don't think we have to get all riled about a specific player yet.  We are just lucky to have players that I think some teams will want at the deadline.  This next deadline will be a key to our future if it's handled well.

     

     



    Thanks Crit. I'm not for trading away most of the "last year here" players, although a compelling argument could be made for doing so. I was more that way last winter when the draft pick value was attached to Ellsbury, and my hopes of us being even a marginal playoff contender where less than now.

     

    Salty is not the guy I want to trade. I want him extended now. I wanted him extended last winter. Not many others were for that. Now, some psoters are acting like I do not value Salty, and that is why I mentioned possibly trading him. 

    I'm not one of those guys who want to trade all our bad or injured players for a stud in some dreamworks fantasy. You have to give value to get value, and I think that over the years I have been accused or offering too much not too little. On this site, I consider that a sign that I am probably close to reality that the dreamers. When looking to improve one of the team's weakest links (see below), one has to look at varying ways of upgrading that slot:

    1) Trade prospects for a rental or high priced or aging vet.

    2) Trade established players from positions where the replacement is the least drop off from the guy we are trading away. (To me, this is clearly Drew>Iggy and Ells> JBJ)

    3) Package a player in a slot of need with others to upgrade that position.

    To me, we could become one of the top ring contenders if we fill one of our two weakest links:

           1) Solid & dependable starting pitcher under team control for 2+ seasons and 

                not past prime by the end of his contract.

            2) A solid right-handed middle of the order bat (LF, CF or RF)

    I'd love to win this year, but I am more concerned about our extended future, so making a trade to help us now, should also help us in 2014 and beyond. The Dodger trade went a long way in securing our future both in gaining top prospects and also by freeing up cap space for years to come.

    Many posters here hated that trade and bashed me for praising it so highly. Now, I'm not hearing so much negativity about the deal even with AGon and CC doing pretty well with LAD.

    [/QUOTE]

    "To me, we could become one of the top ring contenders if we fill one of our two weakest links:

           1) Solid & dependable starting pitcher under team control for 2+ seasons and 

                not past prime by the end of his contract.

            2) A solid right-handed middle of the order bat (LF, CF or RF)

    I'd love to win this year, but I am more concerned about our extended future, so making a trade to help us now, should also help us in 2014 and beyond."

     

    -Yup. That's where I'm at also. But if a trade like that happens soon, i think it would totally help this years team. I mean, they should trade for instant help (if it's not why bother) that's controllable for a couple years. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Our strength is our depth, one guy goes down, and another fills in very well so far, and more guys get to play and keep sharp and, in the case of the young players, gain experience.  Going to be interesting to see what if any trades are made at the deadline.



    good point. I think they can trade redundant depth tho.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II


    It was an interesting comment today by Farrell stating "WMB would have to get his swing back to rejoin the club".

    I guess this, at least temporarily, solves the 3rd base Iggy dilemma.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    "To me, we could become one of the top ring contenders if we fill one of our two weakest links:

           1) Solid & dependable starting pitcher under team control for 2+ seasons and 

                not past prime by the end of his contract.

            2) A solid right-handed middle of the order bat (LF, CF or RF)

    I'd love to win this year, but I am more concerned about our extended future, so making a trade to help us now, should also help us in 2014 and beyond."

     

    -Yup. That's where I'm at also. But if a trade like that happens soon, i think it would totally help this years team. I mean, they should trade for instant help (if it's not why bother) that's controllable for a couple years. 

     

    It's harder to find a very good player under team control for several years without giving up a lot of prospects. I'm not for mortgaging the future for now, but if the player is very good and here beyond 2014, I'd consider any trade.

    I am also not against a trade that might not provide "instant help". I'd be fine with trading Ellsbury for a nice prospect once Shane is healthy. I'm also Okay with trading Drew for a nice prospect, but I'm not sure he could net one, unless we pay half or more of his deal. What I really think might be best is to trade Ellsbury and Drew for prospects, and then trade a few prospects for an "instant help" player who is under team control for 2+ years. Maybe he's a salary dump type player. Maybe we get a good player for cheap by taking another player at high salary with him (like Lowell with Beckett). Maybe we trade some prospects plus Doubront for a better starting pitcher with about the same amount of team control.

    Sox4ever

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    It was an interesting comment today by Farrell stating "WMB would have to get his swing back to rejoin the club".

    I guess this, at least temporarily, solves the 3rd base Iggy dilemma.

     

    That is interesting... and the correct position to take.

    Sox4ever

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Out of curiosity, who would be some of the pitchers who would fit the above criteria?

    I'm sure some of you guys out there have a pretty good idea.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Sox OPS by position as compared to the rest of the AL:

    C:  .791  4th

    1B: .849 6th

    2B: .854  1st

    3B: .734  8th

    SS: .803  2nd

    LF: .806  3rd

    CF: .710  8th

    RF: .823  4th

    DH: 1.007 1st

    Interesting that our weakest OPS position and worst position by comparison is the CF position.

    Another interesting note: Sox team catcher OPS in recent years.

    2013: .791 (More than 100 points better than 2012!)

    2012: .690

    2011: .732

    2010: .777

    2009: .772

    2008: .660

    2007: .740

    2006: .663

    2005: .806

    2004: .872

    2003: .831

     

     

     

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    6 positions over .800 and 7 over .791.

    Sox4ever

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to darrylfries's comment:

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     


    It was an interesting comment today by Farrell stating "WMB would have to get his swing back to rejoin the club".

    I guess this, at least temporarily, solves the 3rd base Iggy dilemma.

     



     I've been wondering .   I can agree with this but...

     

    1 In order to get your swing back you have to play.

    2 One of the two things the Sox need is a right hand hitter with some pop in the middle of the order.




    No one says he's not going to play.

    He will be playing and probably under less scrutiny there than in Boston.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to ampoule's comment:

     


    It was an interesting comment today by Farrell stating "WMB would have to get his swing back to rejoin the club".

    I guess this, at least temporarily, solves the 3rd base Iggy dilemma.

     



     I've been wondering .   I can agree with this but...

     

    1 In order to get your swing back you have to play.

    2 One of the two things the Sox need is a right hand hitter with some pop in the middle of the order.

    I think he means this: WMB will get a rehab assignment regardless, but perhaps he will not come back to the big club as soon as he feels 100%. If he is struggling at the plate in rehab, he may stay longer.

    Sox4ever

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Looks like he may be regaining his swing quickly.

    Now, if Manager John will just play Iggy at SS when the "Will-Da-Beast" returns to the big club.

    It's just days away from the date we can trade Drew.

     

    Sox4ever

     
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